Larry of the Lawn Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Lovely the narrative on TV and elsewhere that some kind of neglected rural voter revolution, when in reality, the biggest difference this year was young Dems not showing up to vote. There's no unheard voice that just wanted respect. This was a skin-of-the-teeth victory for Trump and co. All these calls by the right for the left to be civil and play ball and give Trump a chance are bullshit apologist sentiments and should be treated with appropriate contempt. Sore losers my ass. Just more domination worldview framing of an issue. The unheard voices here are the black, LGBTQ and other minority voices that have been reporting the daily prejudice and shit they face that all of a sudden the rest of us are supposed to be surprised by. Hilarious, if it wasn't horrifying, how when the racist that came out of the woodwork with Obama's election is now sitting down in the Oval Office. Determined to be at every area protest against this clown of a President Elect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lany Freelove Cassandra Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 6 hours ago, LongRider said: Haahahahahahaha! When I was unemployed I couldn't even qualify for food stamps because I owned a car! Perhaps a person who is unemployed because of a disability but a person who is able bodied and unemployed in a recession is pretty much shit out of luck. Good try tho. When I was unemployed, I qualified for food stamps and we own two cars. That had nothing to do with it. My husband was working, but making very little, less than our mortgage. It was all about income, family size and housing costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 One thing about so many news sources popping up in the last 10 years, now you can pick and choose from a larger variety of narratives you want to latch onto. Instead of just 2 or maybe 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 I do wonder why the apparently dominant narrative appears to be 'the American right elected Donald Trump and we need to figure out why that's the American left's fault'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 17 minutes ago, mormont said: I do wonder why the apparently dominant narrative appears to be 'the American right elected Donald Trump and we need to figure out why that's the American left's fault'. I very much agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Narratives seem to be localized instead of nationalized. There are completely different narratives dominating depending on where you are geographically. Globally, idk id guess it's much the same??? Depending on what country you are in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 3 minutes ago, mormont said: I do wonder why the apparently dominant narrative appears to be 'the American right elected Donald Trump and we need to figure out why that's the American left's fault'. There is a Narrative of that the emotional reponse from small communities is the fault of Party that play to identities cast them as a villain to a Nation problems and there economic distressed is by design. There is also the mock and disrespect show to them by news and entertainment Their response is to elect a New York City Celebrity Businessman. That aside it is a strong narrative that holds. On one level if your are cast as America's past why care for the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martell Spy Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Quote How? Without breaking the budget? Easy. The tax cuts for the wealthy will stimulate the economy. Everything will balance out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 44 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: Lovely the narrative on TV and elsewhere that some kind of neglected rural voter revolution, when in reality, the biggest difference this year was young Dems not showing up to vote. There's no unheard voice that just wanted respect. This was a skin-of-the-teeth victory for Trump and co. All these calls by the right for the left to be civil and play ball and give Trump a chance are bullshit apologist sentiments and should be treated with appropriate contempt. Sore losers my ass. Just more domination worldview framing of an issue. The unheard voices here are the black, LGBTQ and other minority voices that have been reporting the daily prejudice and shit they face that all of a sudden the rest of us are supposed to be surprised by. Hilarious, if it wasn't horrifying, how when the racist that came out of the woodwork with Obama's election is now sitting down in the Oval Office. Determined to be at every area protest against this clown of a President Elect. We will never know how many conservatives ended up not voting due to not being able to stomach Trump. And as for Democrats not voting, well, maybe a lot working class Democrats did in fact vote, but voted for Trump instead of Clinton, thereby replacing the conservatives who did not vote. Put differently, while some Democrats stayed home, many conservative Republicans also stayed home. So it is not as simple as saying "next time around everyone's bases will turn out and let the Democrats inevitably win the thing." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 12 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said: We will never know how many conservatives ended up not voting due to not being able to stomach Trump. Why not? It seems as easy a question to answer as any other. You find some conservatives, you ask them. 1. Do you identify as conservative? y/n 2. Did you vote for Romney in 2012? y/n 3. Did you vote for Trump in 2016? y/n 4. If the answer to 3. is no, why not? Job done. No mysteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 hour ago, larrytheimp said: Lovely the narrative on TV and elsewhere that some kind of neglected rural voter revolution, when in reality, the biggest difference this year was young Dems not showing up to vote. There's no unheard voice that just wanted respect. This was a skin-of-the-teeth victory for Trump and co. All these calls by the right for the left to be civil and play ball and give Trump a chance are bullshit apologist sentiments and should be treated with appropriate contempt. Sore losers my ass. Just more domination worldview framing of an issue. The unheard voices here are the black, LGBTQ and other minority voices that have been reporting the daily prejudice and shit they face that all of a sudden the rest of us are supposed to be surprised by. Hilarious, if it wasn't horrifying, how when the racist that came out of the woodwork with Obama's election is now sitting down in the Oval Office. Determined to be at every area protest against this clown of a President Elect. So, Jonathan Pie is full of crap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 55 minutes ago, mormont said: I do wonder why the apparently dominant narrative appears to be 'the American right elected Donald Trump and we need to figure out why that's the American left's fault'. So, Jonathan Pie's commentary has no basis in fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IheartIheartTesla Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 16 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said: Put differently, while some Democrats stayed home, many conservative Republicans also stayed home. So it is not as simple as saying "next time around everyone's bases will turn out and let the Democrats inevitably win the thing." Not too many conservatives did that. However, through some pieces in the Atlantic, it was pretty well established that there were many townships of steadfast, lifelong Democrats who did vote Republican. As I said in the past, Pennsylvania is not that hard to fathom flipping (although till the end I was thinking Philly would compensate for most of the lost voters). Wisconsin to me is the real puzzle, Michigan not so much. Just to reiterate, I think the Democratic strategy of racking up urban totals as a way to offset rural votes is probably too narrow and fraught with peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunderMifflin Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, mormont said: Asking people about their politics isn't as easy as it sounds. I've been doing it since the election and it's taken a toll on my self esteem. The majority of people are not going to discuss it openly, of those most will think it creepy that you ask such personal questions. These are mostly friends, family, and aquintances. Asking random strangers seems like a brutal task that borders on suicidal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 17 minutes ago, mormont said: Why not? It seems as easy a question to answer as any other. You find some conservatives, you ask them. 1. Do you identify as conservative? y/n 2. Did you vote for Romney in 2012? y/n 3. Did you vote for Trump in 2016? y/n 4. If the answer to 3. is no, why not? Job done. No mysteries. Let me rephrase then. Until someone does that, we will not know. If someone has done that, and the answer supports your position, then you (or anyone else like larry above) can assert that Trump won simply because a chunk of the Democratic base stayed home. Until then, the answer is likely to be a bit more complicated than that. More along the lines of, some racist black Obama supporters stayed home because they did not have a black guy to vote for, some conservative Republicans stayed home because they did not have a religious conservative to vote for, some "enlightened Republicans" either stayed home or held their noses and voted for Hillary, and some working class Democrats held their noses and voted for Donald Trump. And more combinations not listed above. Point is, it's not just a case of Democrats lacking enthusiasm and letting Trump win through lack of effort (read turnout). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 hour ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said: When I was unemployed, I qualified for food stamps and we own two cars. That had nothing to do with it. My husband was working, but making very little, less than our mortgage. It was all about income, family size and housing costs. When I pre-applied I did not qualify due to the value of my car. Different states have different rules, plus this was 2011 and rules change. As you say, it's all about the variables and the state one lives, and we don't have the same variables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said: Until then, the answer is likely to be a bit more complicated than that. More along the lines of, some racist black Obama supporters stayed home because they did not have a black guy to vote for There is also misogynistic Blacks who did not want to vote for a women. You can also have Racist Blacks who are fine with a Racist being elected since it is just being honest that this a Racist Country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 26 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: So, Jonathan Pie's commentary has no basis in fact? Not quite. But isn't it interesting that the responsibility for the election of a habitual liar, fraudulent businessman, unexperienced know-nothing, raging racist and sleazy sexist somehow lies with the disenfranchised majority that voted against him, instead of the minority that voted for him and in spite of their defeat in the popular vote ended up with all the levers of power due to the vagaries of randomly drawn borders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGimletEye Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-pledge-prosecute-clinton-20161111-story.html Prosecution of Hillary? My thought is no Obama, don't give her a Pardon. Let's dare Trump to go through with it. And then country and the whole world can see what a fraud Trump and conservatives are. Most people in the world don't get their information from Fox News and Breitbart. Lets just see if Trump and his advisers are willing to die on this hill. I'm up for a fight with conservatives on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 1 minute ago, OldGimletEye said: http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-trump-pledge-prosecute-clinton-20161111-story.html Prosecution of Hillary? My thought is no Obama, don't give her a Pardon. Let's dare Trump to go through with it. And then country and the whole world can see what a fraud Trump and conservatives are. Most people in the world don't get there information from Fox News and Breitbart. Lets just see if Trump and his advisers are willing to die on this hill. I'm up for a fight with conservatives on this. ... and if he succeeds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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