Different betrothals, Different outcomes.

[theMADdestScientist_]

One of the things i like the most about these series are the betrothals and marriages, they are way too interesting, one of the best parts of any story based on a medieval setting.

Recently i was thinking about different betrothals and how they would fare, so i decided to make a post about it and see what people think would have happened between a specific couple. There is no need to say how that would affect the story, the important thing is how the couple would do together, would they try to kill one another? would they love one another? or something in between?

The characters i will choose will be those we know well or have sufficient background to know what kind of person they were. There will be characters i will not choose because i believe it would not be fun or interesting to specualte about their possible marriages. There are some characters that are completely sour, like Stannis for example. No matter who Stannis marries, it will be boring. Jaime will take part in, but his story is so interwined with Cersei that is hard to see any of Jaime's brides surviving. Jaime belongs to Cersei unless she changes her mind and puts him aside, she is the one who holds the power in their "relationship" after all.

Now, the characters will be those who lived during Aerys's reign, before Robert's Rebellion. There will be no Jon Snow or Robb Stark, no Sansa or Margaery.

Let's start? the men will be:

Ned Stark: Dutiful, Noble, Honorable and Rigid. Loves his family and his family loves him, but outsiders finds him cold. Despite being dutiful, it took Catelyn Stark(who is also dutiful) quite some time to fall for him. He's not particulary attractive, he is unlikely to make a woman's heart beat faster at first sight.

Robert Baratheon: Party animal, loves his drinking and his fighting, and certainly loves to make new friends. He's not particulary dutiful, he is honorable, but not like Ned Stark. One can question his nobility after hitting Cersei in the face and his constant drinking has lead to some rather unpleasant nights for her. In his heyday he was described as very attractive by both men and women alike.

Jaime Lannister: Arrogant, that's pretty much the only word needed to describe Jaime Lannister before he lost his hand. He loves his sister(who might be insane), and that's a gigantic problem for any women. Jaime's possible future with another women will always be a big problem for the woman who ends up with him, unless Cersei is kept far away from him. He is described as very attractive by both men and women alike.

Oberyn Martell: His mother tried to find a suitable match for him when he was young, but she failed, and he ultimately decided not to marry. In the end he chose to pursue a different "lifestyle". Like Jaime, he is arrogant, but like Ned Stark, he loves his family, and one can say he is honorable too, but not like Ned Stark. He cares for all his children, and has a loyal but rather strange(open?) relationship with his partner Ellaria. He can be considered attractive, he is tall, slender, graceful and fit.

Rhaegar Targaryen: For women this has to be the most dangerous human being in Westeros. A backstory character, but we know enough to come to the conclusion that he is pretty much the classic "Prince Charming", albeit a little darker, more isolated and secretive. He is described as being dutiful, noble and honorable, just like Ned Stark. Before he met Lyanna he seems to have been all those things. Is noted for not being a particularly happy man, but this has an ambiguous meaning, and doesn't necessarily mean that he cannot love others. For a man who had an insane father, an overall distant family and a life at the centre of prophecies, one can even understand why he was not a very happy person. He's widely described as very attractive by both men and women alike.

Now, the women will be:

Catelyn Tully: A strong, proud, honorable and dutiful woman. Her family is the most important thing for her, which can lead her to make harsh decisions at the worst time possible. She is described as a very attractive woman.

Lysa Tully: In her youth, she was described as a good, timid and shy girl, far different from the woman who was heavily affected by her marriage to Jon Arryn(who was old enough to be her grandfather) and her years in King's Landing. In her youth she was described as a very attractive girl.

Cersei Lannister: A highly ambitious woman, who is not as smart as she thinks. For all i've read of her, it makes me think she will become insane by the end of the series, but again, this is still the little girl who cried like a normal little girl when King Aerys refused her betrothal to Rhaegar Targaryen, so there was some humanity in her before she married Robert and became Queen. She is certainly not a simple character, and certainly one of George's finest creations. She is widely described as very attractive by both men and women alike.

Lyanna Stark: A backstory character, but for all we know, she is an older version of Arya Stark. Think about Arya Stark as if Ned had never gone to King's Landing, Arya would grow up eventually and would be interested in boys as well, just like Lyanna. If we take Robert Baratheon's word, she was the goddess of beauty, but a more realistic take coming from Kevan Lannister confirms that she was an attractive young woman, albeit with a wild beauty, something that is confirmed by Maester Yandel in The World of Ice and Fire. We can conclude that while she was attractive, she was no Cersei Lannister.

Elia Martell: A good, gentle and kind woman, known for being clever. She is also known for not being very healthy, her health was ever delicate, and all those who met her at least once remembers her as a frail and delicate woman. Some consider her attractive, while others have a complete different opinion. Howland Reed describes her as a fair woman to his daughter Meera. Maester Yandel describes her as having a delicate beauty, something that Lyanna Stark didn't have. Barristan Selmy, who speaks highly of her to Daenerys, doesn't consider Elia an attractive woman. Jon Connington echoes that sentiment, believing that there were women more "worthy" for Rhaegar to marry.

Before we start talking about the possible couples, i have to say that Rhaegar and Lyanna or Robert and Lyanna are not allowed, this is not an R+L=J thread, and i certainly don't want it to become one. Now, let's make the possible pairs:

Ned Stark+Lysa Tully

Ned Stark+Cersei Lannister

Ned Stark+Elia Martell

Robert Baratheon+Catelyn Tully

Robert Baratheon+Lysa Tully

Robert Baratheon+Elia Martell

Jaime Lannister+Catelyn Tully

Jaime Lannister+Lysa Tully

Jaime Lannister+Lyanna Stark

Jaime Lannister+Elia Martell

Oberyn Martell+Catelyn Tully

Oberyn Martell+Lysa Tully

Oberyn Martell+Cersei Lannister

Oberyn Martell+Lyanna Stark

Rhaegar Targaryen+Catelyn Tully

Rhaegar Targaryen+Lysa Tully

Rhaegar Targaryen+Cersei Lannister

Rhaegar Targaryen+Elia Martell

 

Those are the pairs you can choose to talk about, so choose one and say whatever you want. Now, you will notice that the very last couple has got together once, but i think Rhaegar and Elia are a very misunderstood couple. More often than not people don't pay attention to the fact that their marriage was quite short. They got married in 280 AC, and by 281 AC Rhaegar and Lyanna met. Throw in the fact that Rhaegar had his father to think about, and Elia with her delicate health, and it starts to look like a couple who had quite a lot to think about. So i propose a reevaluation of their marriage, on a scenario where there isn't a crazy Aerys or a tourney at Harrenhal, and subsequently no Lyanna to distract Rhaegar. That should give more time to Rhaegar and Elia. If Rhaegar was very fond of Elia before, then i see a more positive prospect for them under different circumstances. Also, keep the prophecies out of the equation, we still don't know enough about it, and we certainly don't know what the prophecy truly means for Rhaegar, and this is not the purpose of this post.

That's it, choose a couple and say what you think would happen between them.

 

 

 

[Bowen 747]

Oberyn Martell and Lyanna Stark is the most interesting of your matchmaking.  Lyanna is wild, crazy, quick to anger, and impulsive.  If there is a man who can deal with such it is Oberyn. 

[Lucius Lovejoy]

Rhaegar+Cersei, Robert+Lyanna (you can even through in Brandon+Catelyn), Jaime+Elia, boom everyone is happy and there is no rebellion and no story.

[Angel Eyes]

6 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

Rhaegar+Cersei, Robert+Lyanna (you can even through in Brandon+Catelyn), Jaime+Elia, boom everyone is happy and there is no rebellion and no story.

Jaime would probably go to Dorne with Elia; Cersei wouldn’t like Elia because Elia isn’t up to Cersei’s standards. 

Oberyn and Catelyn is a no-no. Considering how well Catelyn reacts with one bastard, I don’t think she’ll stomach having several more in the same house. And Oberyn’s been siring bastards since he was 12.

[The Sunland Lord]

Cersei+Lysa 

[Angel Eyes]

10 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Cersei+Lysa 

That’s not on his list, is it?

[Apoplexy]

Ned+Elia and Jaime+Lyanna seem like they could work. I;m not sure how well Elia would fare in the cold northern climate though. And Lyanna seems like the person who would not take Jaime's BS and maybe bring his arrogance to heel. Jaime is attractive and loyal, something Lyanna might appreciate.

[The Sunland Lord]

1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

That’s not on his list, is it?

We are entitled to our opinion. Can you say it's a bad match?

[The Bard of Banefort]

I actually think Jaime would have been good to any woman he was married to. Lyanna probably would have made a good match because they both had that same fiery spirit, and because he and Cersei would likely be separated in this instance. It’s interesting to consider if Jaime would have continued his affair with Cersei had he been married as well.

[Angel Eyes]

37 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

We are entitled to our opinion. Can you say it's a bad match?

He was quite clear on what would be discussed.

[The Bard of Banefort]

51 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

Ned+Elia and Jaime+Lyanna seem like they could work. I;m not sure how well Elia would fare in the cold northern climate though. And Lyanna seems like the person who would not take Jaime's BS and maybe bring his arrogance to heel. Jaime is attractive and loyal, something Lyanna might appreciate.

Elia seems like she had a kind soul, so I think she would have gotten along well with Ned. Like you said though, I doubt she would have liked Winterfell.

[Angel Eyes]

21 hours ago, Bowen 747 said:

Oberyn Martell and Lyanna Stark is the most interesting of your matchmaking.  Lyanna is wild, crazy, quick to anger, and impulsive.  If there is a man who can deal with such it is Oberyn. 

Sounds like Cersei+Oberyn would be a good match.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

On 12/23/2017 at 6:32 AM, theMADdestScientist_ said:

Oberyn Martell+Catelyn Tully

Catelyn would end up going crazier then her sister did in canon. She'd probably end up running away with Baelish.

Rhaegar would be the only man Cersei would be faithful too. He's the only person prettier then her that you listed.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

Also if your going to mentioned how Robert hit Cersei in his description you should mention how Oberyn hit Obara's mother and stole her child. Oberyn has a dark side. 

[Curled Finger]

These are terrible matches, or maybe they're just terrible characters to marry.   If I was the parents of Cersei and Jamie I would want the most prestigious marriages I could find.  That means 1st born Lords.   Rhaegar or Robert for Cersei (poor guys--I rather enjoy picturing Stannis and Cersei together.)  Jamie is heir to Casterly Rock--he needs an equally prestigious marriage--gotta be Cat as none of our other choices have any hope of adding power and land to Tywin's legacy.  And how hard could it be to bump off silly Edmure?  

Lysa and Ned in hopes of Ned curbing her madness and encouraging him to get the hell away from Winterfell once in a while.   While I would like to see Oberyn with Cersei I'm afraid I've got to match him up with Lyanna as that would be very interesting.   That leaves Elia stuck with whichever guy Cersei doesn't devour, I mean marry.

In the rearview it's easy to see how some of these characters mature.  Ned would be a rock.   Jamie will forever be searching for both love and his lost honor.  Robert will always be a party animal and Rhaegar will be a rock star.  In finding alternate matches I found that Lysa and Ned was an easy decision because Ned is solid and I think Lysa would respond to that.   And she would have no influence over Little Finger's career.   No way Ned would put up with any of his kids being Sweet Robert, so that's another plus to that match.  

 Robert, Cersei and Elia simply aren't easy to match up with anyone.  We don't know enough about Elia to appropriately marry her off.   One wonders if Robert or Cersei would have become very different people had their marriage been loving as opposed to dutiful.   

[Angel Eyes]

10 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

These are terrible matches, or maybe they're just terrible characters to marry.   If I was the parents of Cersei and Jamie I would want the most prestigious marriages I could find.  That means 1st born Lords.   Rhaegar or Robert for Cersei (poor guys--I rather enjoy picturing Stannis and Cersei together.)  Jamie is heir to Casterly Rock--he needs an equally prestigious marriage--gotta be Cat as none of our other choices have any hope of adding power and land to Tywin's legacy.  And how hard could it be to bump off silly Edmure?  

Lysa and Ned in hopes of Ned curbing her madness and encouraging him to get the hell away from Winterfell once in a while.   While I would like to see Oberyn with Cersei I'm afraid I've got to match him up with Lyanna as that would be very interesting.   That leaves Elia stuck with whichever guy Cersei doesn't devour, I mean marry.

In the rearview it's easy to see how some of these characters mature.  Ned would be a rock.   Jamie will forever be searching for both love and his lost honor.  Robert will always be a party animal and Rhaegar will be a rock star.  In finding alternate matches I found that Lysa and Ned was an easy decision because Ned is solid and I think Lysa would respond to that.   And she would have no influence over Little Finger's career.   No way Ned would put up with any of his kids being Sweet Robert, so that's another plus to that match.  

 Robert, Cersei and Elia simply aren't easy to match up with anyone.  We don't know enough about Elia to appropriately marry her off.   One wonders if Robert or Cersei would have become very different people had their marriage been loving as opposed to dutiful.   

Hard to tell. We’re never inside Robert’s head, and Cersei likes being the dominant one in a relationship. And how well would Jaime and Catelyn mesh? 

[Ivan Tsarevich]

7 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

And how well would Jaime and Catelyn mesh? 

Isn't there chance they could actually work out fairly well? There's passing interest to each other in both sides, by Catelyn in Riverrun cell, and by Jaime when he reminisces about being sent to bear message to Riverrun. They also have common values, as honor is very important to both - if Jaime never falls through his wows by regicide, his honor is untarnished in the eyes of the world, and naturally his own relationship to it as well.

[Rosetta Stone]

On 12/23/2017 at 8:32 AM, theMADdestScientist_ said:

 

You forgot to include the most important male on your list:  Prince Viserys, the heir to the throne.

[Curled Finger]

30 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Hard to tell. We’re never inside Robert’s head, and Cersei likes being the dominant one in a relationship. And how well would Jaime and Catelyn mesh? 

I don't think Tywin would care how Cat and Jamie got along, though it sure doesn't sound like a good match at all.  As I said, that's how I would do it if i was Tywin.  I often forget Cersei once at least desired Robert and he blew it very early in their relationship.  Had he been an attentive and loving husband who knows how either of them would turn out.   17 years in a bad relationship will twist anyone.  

[PrinceHenryris]

Interesting thread, but there's a problem.  If we're assuming that these betrothals occurred prior to the rebellion and, possibly more importantly, before the Tourney at Harrenhal, then Ned wouldn't have been a factor.  Ned was the second son.  With the possible exception of Lysa, Ned wouldn't even be a candidate.  It was Brandon who was betrothed to Cat.

Now, I know that some of you will say, "But Oberyn's a second son too."  Yeah, I get that, but Oberyn's a Prince.  There's a difference.

Rickard would have probably sought out a betrothal for Ned to the daughter of a Northern or Vale lord who didn't have a son to inherit.