HBO’s Westworld VI- This Game Is Meant For You...[SPOILERS]

[Fragile Bird]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I know. I was just getting at that most people associate a safari with Africa. That said, I think it would be a great idea to have a generic "big game hunting" park that had several hunting options. That's a rich person thing, right?

How does Shogun World play into the narrative of oppression? I must admit I don't know that much about Japanese history outside of what I've seen in some samurai movies. 

Yeah I saw that. I'll make sure to start taking notes again. How long did it take you, because for me I feel like it can come close to doubling that amount of time I spend on a single episode. 

Lol, I've watched it three times. That's why I suggest a few days between episodes.

Japanese society was feudal. Being in the upper classes in medieval Japanese society would be similar to feudal medieval Europe. Lots of geishas, I bet.

[Fragile Bird]

Oh, I'll repeat something I mentioned in the other thread. The picture of the woman used in Season 1 that derailed Abernathy was a stock picture. The producers went out and hired the model in the picture to play William's wife in that retirement scene. I don't know that anyone mentioned that already.

[DMC]

11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

That's a rich person thing, right?

 

[Jace, Extat]

Dude, Samurai were basically just viscous gangsters who worked for the Lord.

Just like Knights, really.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Lol, I've watched it three times. That's why I suggest a few days between episodes.

Japanese society was feudal. Being in the upper classes in medieval Japanese society would be similar to feudal medieval Europe. Lots of geishas, I bet.

That's a smart idea. I got burnt out after do it on three consecutive days, and was hindered by that fact that I was not sotally tober.

I knew that about ancient Japan, but really only in broad strokes. What's unique about Shogun World compared to what else we've is that Japan was (and still is) ethnically homogeneous. You can see the clear racial divide with parks about cowboys and Native Americans and British colonial India, but not with Japan. I'm wondering if that means we're reading too much into the idea that  the time periods have oppressive overtones on purpose. Delos could just be selecting interesting time periods that just happen to coincide with a dark oppressive history. 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

17 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

 

That's precisely what I had in mind. 

[Fragile Bird]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

That's a smart idea. I got burnt out after do it on three consecutive days, and was hindered by that fact that I was not sotally tober.

I knew that about ancient Japan, but really only in broad strokes. What's unique about Shogun World compared to what else we've is that Japan was (and still is) ethnically homogeneous. You can see the clear racial divide with parks about cowboys and Native Americans and British colonial India, but not with Japan. I'm wondering if that means we're reading too much into the idea that  the time periods have oppressive overtones on purpose. Delos could just be selecting interesting time periods that just happen to coincide with a dark oppressive history. 

 

The hosts won't notice you're not Japanese.

[Jace, Extat]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

That's a smart idea. I got burnt out after do it on three consecutive days, and was hindered by that fact that I was not sotally tober.

I knew that about ancient Japan, but really only in broad strokes. What's unique about Shogun World compared to what else we've is that Japan was (and still is) ethnically homogeneous. You can see the clear racial divide with parks about cowboys and Native Americans and British colonial India, but not with Japan. I'm wondering if that means we're reading too much into the idea that  the time periods have oppressive overtones on purpose. Delos could just be selecting interesting time periods that just happen to coincide with a dark oppressive history. 

 

You're confusing the process. I already alluded to this earlier in the thread.

If they're hitting the big cultural groups (to exploit), the high water mark for adventure in those histories come from fond memories of when (X) just did whatever they wanted and the world was their oyster.

So they're not picking these times/places for their oppressive histories. The oppressive histories of these places/times make them ideal for providing power fantasies.

[Cas Stark]

5 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

The hosts won't notice you're not Japanese.

I thought the point was that with feudal Japan, it was rich Japanese oppressing poor Japanese, no racial dynamic like in colonial India or the American West.

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Delos could just be selecting interesting time periods that just happen to coincide with a dark oppressive history. 

Well, unless they're gonna do a Fantasy World like Corvinus suggested, you'd be hard-pressed to think of any period of history that isn't gonna have a dark oppressive aspect to it.  I think it's more how these periods are presented with the guests vis-a-vis the hosts, rather than the specifics of the historic time period.  For instance, what have we gotten from Native American culture in the world about the wild west?  Nothing but the scariest, most savage villains in the park (outside of Dolores/Wyatt's "horde").

[Fragile Bird]

6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I thought the point was that with feudal Japan, it was rich Japanese oppressing poor Japanese, no racial dynamic like in colonial India or the American West.

I was thinking of the rich and powerful v. the peasants.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

You're confusing the process. I already alluded to this earlier in the thread.

If they're hitting the big cultural groups (to exploit), the high water mark for adventure in those histories come from fond memories of when (X) just did whatever they wanted and the world was their oyster.

So they're not picking these times/places for their oppressive histories. The oppressive histories of these places/times make them ideal for providing power fantasies.

 

10 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Well, unless they're gonna do a Fantasy World like Corvinus suggested, you'd be hard-pressed to think of any period of history that isn't gonna have a dark oppressive aspect to it.  I think it's more how these periods are presented with the guests vis-a-vis the hosts, rather than the specifics of the historic time period.  For instance, what have we gotten from Native American culture in the world about the wild west?  Nothing but the scariest, most savage villains in the park (outside of Dolores/Wyatt's "horde").

Valid points, and yeah, there aren't too many historical settings where oppression wasn't rampant. 

[Jaxom 1974]

Yet how do those oppressive aspects of those older times play into the world we live in where someone like Donald Trump is face of the "haves" in America today...?

I think that makes sense...

[Ramsay B.]

7 hours ago, dmc515 said:

So I mentioned Grace (the chick in the Raj at the beginning) being Emily (William's daughter) last night, and have seen it quite a bit across the internet since.  I'm not surprised - it's a pretty obvious conclusion to jump to, and pretty much the only one if she's a character we actually "know of."  No comments about that on here?

The first 5 minutes I thought it was definitely a younger Theresa from her looks and smoking mannerisms, but realized after she didn’t have the same accent. Also the timeline doesn’t add up with the tiger and all that. So her being Emily probably makes the most sense right now, as she obviously knows her way around the park and seems to know how everything works. What are her intentions though? She blames her dad on her mom’s suicide so is she just looking to fuck over William somehow? I am interested in seeing how this plays out.

[dbunting]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I knew that about ancient Japan, but really only in broad strokes. What's unique about Shogun World compared to what else we've is that Japan was (and still is) ethnically homogeneous. You can see the clear racial divide with parks about cowboys and Native Americans and British colonial India, but not with Japan. I'm wondering if that means we're reading too much into the idea that  the time periods have oppressive overtones on purpose. Delos could just be selecting interesting time periods that just happen to coincide with a dark oppressive history. 

 

Have we seen any of the oppression in Westworld yet? So far through 14 or so episodes we haven't really seen much of the Indians except that they are feared. You don't see the butchery of them like you would expect to see in the "oppression" themes you describe. In reality most of what we have seen is 90% rape and murder of white people by white people. There have been some episodes where Mexican people have been targeted but not to the level you would expect if this was about oppression. IDK, just not a feeling I get.

As to the other parks we know of, Shogun world, I mean yeah, what is the one most talked about, most seen part of Japanese history? Shogun times.

As for RajWorld, it kills two birds with one stone. You get British elite coming for a time their families history would have done in real life and probably think back on romantically and such, plus you get Indias' elite, which right now is one of the fastest growing countries in tech and population in the world. I'm sure part of that park would be interesting to their elite as well.

Roman world, if existed would get most of the rest of Europe involved since they conquered most of it at one time or another. I'm sure people from Germany would like it because in their storyline they would be defeating the Romans, same for others.

[DMC]

36 minutes ago, Ramsay B. said:

What are her intentions though? She blames her dad on her mom’s suicide so is she just looking to fuck over William somehow? I am interested in seeing how this plays out.

I did note on my second viewing that basically the second thing she says after her hookup says "I guess you have time to kill" is "among other things."

ETA:  Also, the direction of the cold open makes the viewer take note of that weird map Grace continues to study.  Who else do we know that is obsessed with maps of the park?

[Fragile Bird]

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and predict Abernathy gets on that train. I suspect he has been programmed with a compulsion that can’t be suppressed by anyone, not even Dolores.

[karaddin]

21 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

It probably only works on hosts who aren’t woke yet.  

This was my take - I said last week I didn't think it would have worked on Dolores either.

18 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’m seven episodes into my rewatch of season one, and I feel I can definitively say that the outside world being a dystopian future is not accurate. They make enough references about it to imply that it’s a pretty nice place.

There is clearly sufficient backing for both for differing interpretations, I rewatched just before the season started and nothing I saw made me feel like a dystopia was out of the question. There is the "disease cured" etc stuff, but that doesn't rule out a very unequal world still being possible. And nothing I've seen explains away the techs if its a utopia. Somewhere between the two is obviously possible.

[Cas Stark]

I saw a theory that Dolores and maybe the rest f the hosts with the exception of Maeve are not as awake as we think and that they are really still for the most part playing out Ford's last narrative.....they had juxtaposed what Ford said about his final story with events since then and it tracks very closely, its possible.  Also Dolores definitely seems t be a lot more Wyatt than before.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I rewatched S2E3 last night, and here are a few takeaways:

• Grace is not Theresa. Unless I missed something, Grace is in the modern timeline, making that impossible. The tiger that washed up on shore is probably the one that attacked her. She could still be Emily, but I think that would be lame.

• I am now 99% sure they are on an island. There were more references to “the mainland.”  

• It’s becoming less likely that there are multiple islands. I believe Raj World was called park 6, and if so, that means park 6 connects to park 1 (Westworld) and park 1 connects to park 2 (Shogun World). I’m starting to think the island is like a hexagon, with 6 parks circling the main control center.