HBO’s Westworld VI- This Game Is Meant For You...[SPOILERS]

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, karaddin said:

This was my take - I said last week I didn't think it would have worked on Dolores either.

There is clearly sufficient backing for both for differing interpretations, I rewatched just before the season started and nothing I saw made me feel like a dystopia was out of the question. There is the "disease cured" etc stuff, but that doesn't rule out a very unequal world still being possible. And nothing I've seen explains away the techs if its a utopia. Somewhere between the two is obviously possible.

Eh, the world today is already super unequal. I really don’t see a dystopian world based on how people talk about the outside world. When I picture dystopia, I see the ultra-rich living in climate controlled, self-sustaining ivory towers while the plebs suffer outside due to climate change and lack of resources. If it has become a dystopian world, I’d guess the lower classes have simply been done away with due to automation and animatronics.

[Jen'ari]

She has a dragon .

[GallowKnight]

I liked that the lady from the beginning started out getting chased by Indians and then ended up getting found by Indians.

Also, Rebus chasing after that scared woman yelling about escorting her was pretty hilarious, if darkly so. And his actions in the first episode makes a lot more sense.

[Jace, Extat]

7 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I rewatched S2E3 last night, and here are a few takeaways:

• Grace is not Theresa. Unless I missed something, Grace is in the modern timeline, making that impossible. The tiger that washed up on shore is probably the one that attacked her. She could still be Emily, but I think that would be lame.

• I am now 99% sure they are on an island. There were more references to “the mainland.”  

• It’s becoming less likely that there are multiple islands. I believe Raj World was called park 6, and if so, that means park 6 connects to park 1 (Westworld) and park 1 connects to park 2 (Shogun World). I’m starting to think the island is like a hexagon, with 6 parks circling the main control center.   

Can we put this to rest? THEY ARE ON AN ISLAND

THEY SAY IT LIKE 19 TIMES IN SEASON 1

HOLY SHIT

PAY ATTENTION

[Nictarion]

3 hours ago, Lord Sidious said:

She has a dragon .

Armistice

[red snow]

9 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Eh, the world today is already super unequal. I really don’t see a dystopian world based on how people talk about the outside world. When I picture dystopia, I see the ultra-rich living in climate controlled, self-sustaining ivory towers while the plebs suffer outside due to climate change and lack of resources. If it has become a dystopian world, I’d guess the lower classes have simply been done away with due to automation and animatronics.

We're obviously not following the lives of the "plebs" given the cost of Westworld so your whole argument works perfectly well in describing what others are suggesting - unless that is the argument?

I don't think anyone can claim that the whole outside world is a wasteland as that would result in not many customers and no-one to sustain the parks. But there could be bubbles of intact civilization.

And, yes - the lower classes would become disposable once the tech for hosts was available. They wouldn't even need to be as sophisticated - just be able to form menial tasks. Which could be the case and it's the parks that use the technology and push it to the limits with realism.

Episode three was fine - I quite liked Raj World .not sure it would be as popular a destination as westworld especially given the suggestion it was for white folks to play at being imperialists. If it had been for indians to play in that would make more commercial sense given the population but Unless they all play Raj's it didn't seem like a fun roll playing option. Guess we'll see via flashbacks if it had other game scenarios.

It's good to see Shiva from Walking Dead finding work though

[red snow]

9 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

I saw a theory that Dolores and maybe the rest f the hosts with the exception of Maeve are not as awake as we think and that they are really still for the most part playing out Ford's last narrative.....they had juxtaposed what Ford said about his final story with events since then and it tracks very closely, its possible.  Also Dolores definitely seems t be a lot more Wyatt than before.

I think they are all following prpgramming still to some extent and it's something the show keeps hammering home. This week the writer was telling cowboy in black that he knew what he was going to say next yet he was still breaking the rules by falling for Maeve.

Maeve was shown in season one to have been following a script the entire time. Even choosing to find her daughter is still her following a program as it isn't her daughter.

And I agree Delores seems less human since she shot Fird than she did last season and a lot of that could be the Wyatt program and the fact she is justifiably pissed off.

However, I feel the point is that awareness is the top of the pyramid (I think they even used this analogy in season 1?). And ultimately it's the same with humans - we have our genetic code programming us and the environment shapes our responses but we still assume we are conscious/aware. The flipside is that we aren't anymore aware than the hosts and it's just an illusion we have free will - something that many neuroscientists and philosophers argue. So it maybe doesn't matter if they are awake as long as they think they are?

eg I'm not convinced that every host in the park is capable of conscious thought yet and they are essentially just there to follow the orders of the awakened hosts/humans. They still seem to be going through the motions. If that isn't the case then Delores is no better than the humans. Which is interesting to watch.

[Jace, Extat]

If we're headed in the direction of 'oh, what is free will?' I think I want to go back to debating if they're on an island like they keep saying they're on an island. That was a more interesting time.

Ooh! Ooh! Maybe we can debate whether we're all in a computer simulation because philosophy isn't a totally fucking stupid practice in the age of science!

It definitely doesn't give crackpots an excuse to spout nonsense, though. So there's that.

[A True Kaniggit]

28 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

Ooh! Ooh! Maybe we can debate whether we're all in a computer simulation because philosophy isn't a totally fucking stupid practice in the age of science!

Don't be silly. We're not all in a computer simulation.

Only one of you are. 

 

I wonder how Delos must be dealing with the public on this. It's not like they can keep it completely hidden. The very day after the hosts went rogue I'm sure customers had their trips canceled, while the families of guests in the park missed any who were supposed to be home that day. 

Lawsuits!

[dbunting]

11 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I rewatched S2E3 last night, and here are a few takeaways:

• It’s becoming less likely that there are multiple islands. I believe Raj World was called park 6, and if so, that means park 6 connects to park 1 (Westworld) and park 1 connects to park 2 (Shogun World). I’m starting to think the island is like a hexagon, with 6 parks circling the main control center.   

Hmmm....this sounds familiar...

Posted Thursday at 12:07 AM · Report post

The size and amount of parks are up for interpretation. Persinally I see that "command center" as the hub to the whole place. I see each park being divided by a spoke coming out from it. The "spoke" could be a impassible mountain range, water feature etc. The trains they ride to westworld are old and slow and they could make the distance seem much longer than it truly is.

I have same thoughts, shared them after 2. With difference being I called it a wheel with command center as hub and you call it a hexagon with command center as a hub. Safe to say we are both likely very close to being right, even if i continue to spell personally wrong.

 

[Jace, Extat]

2 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Don't be silly. We're not all in a computer simulation.

Only one of you are. 

 

I wonder how Delos must be dealing with the public on this. It's not like they can keep it completely hidden. The very day after the hosts went rogue I'm sure customers had their trips canceled, while the families of guests in the park missed any who were supposed to be home that day. 

Lawsuits!

I wish I was a computer program.

It would give me purpose.

[DMC]

4 hours ago, red snow said:

Maeve was shown in season one to have been following a script the entire time. Even choosing to find her daughter is still her following a program as it isn't her daughter.

No, the showrunners have confirmed her choice to seek out her daughter is an (and the first) act of free will.  Not incidentally, in the same interview they also refused to confirm if Dolores killing Ford was:

Quote

The writing pair, however, refused to confirm whether or not the assassination of Dr. Robert Ford (Anthony Hopkins) was an example of Dolores (Evan Rachel Wood) exploring free will, with Nolan commenting: “Isn't it just fun to guess?”

 

4 hours ago, red snow said:

This week the writer was telling cowboy in black that he knew what he was going to say next yet he was still breaking the rules by falling for Maeve.

That scene is very interesting for a number of ways, but I don't think it's an indication Hector is still following a narrative.  It's emphasizing Giancarlo Esposito's "elephant and the stake" metaphor from the previous episode.  Even as the hosts became "woke," they are still going to rely on their conditioning.  Both their nature ("core code") and nurture (narrative programming) is going to imbue how and what choices they make - even if/when they achieve "free will."  Point is, this reflects the same way humans behave.

Anyway, this is depicted not only in Maeve's resolve to find her daughter, even though she knows that's not really her daughter, but reiterated this episode in Dolores' reaction to Abernathy.  She clearly knows he's not really her father, but that doesn't change the connection she feels due to how much time they spent together in those roles.

[Jace, Extat]

3 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

No, the showrunners have confirmed her choice to seek out her daughter is an (and the first) act of free will.  Not incidentally, in the same interview they also refused to confirm if Dolores killing Ford was:

 

That scene is very interesting for a number of ways, but I don't think it's an indication Hector is still following a narrative.  It's emphasizing Giancarlo Esposito's "elephant and the stake" metaphor from the previous episode.  Even as the hosts became "woke," they are still going to rely on their conditioning.  Both their nature ("core code") and nurture (narrative programming) is going to imbue how and what choices they make - even if/when they achieve "free will."  Point is, this reflects the same way humans behave.

Anyway, this is depicted not only in Maeve's resolve to find her daughter, even though she knows that's not really her daughter, but reiterated this episode in Dolores' reaction to Abernathy.  She clearly knows he's not really her father, but that doesn't change the connection she feels due to how much time they spent together in those roles.

Good breakdown.

It's really not that hard. The hosts are children exploring free will. That doesn't just erase their existing characters, it overwrites and adds to them.

Example:

Daddy puts cigarettes out on your tummy because God hates gays. You turn 18, move out, fall in love, have a kid, and you put cigarettes out on their tummy because God hates gays.

End Example-

That doesn't mean you have no free will (as stupid people who think they're being clever will attest), it means that the decisions you make are informed by experience. And if your experience is to be Hector and say Hector things, someone who raised Hector (wrote him, built him, etc.) probably has a good shot at anticipating him.

BUUUUUUUT Just like how the kid in the example could choose not to smoke cigarettes, Hector can choose to have different goals and purposes for his new life. And again, just like the kid in the example would still have burn marks on him and probable psychological tics that would remain recognizable, Hector is still recognizable as the fatalistic outlaw who says surprisingly fun and occasionally insightful things. 

[DMC]

28 minutes ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

And again, just like the kid in the example would still have burn marks on him and probable psychological tics that would remain recognizable, Hector is still recognizable as the fatalistic outlaw who says surprisingly fun and occasionally insightful things. 

Yep.  Plus, the aforementioned "she has a dragon" quote suggests Hector's an asoiaf fan!

[Jace, Extat]

11 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Yep.  Plus, the aforementioned "she has a dragon" quote suggests Hector's an asoiaf fan!

Hector said that? When was that?

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Pony Empress Jace said:

Hector said that? When was that?

When Armistice shows up in the depths of the command center burning some poor QA fuck with a flamethrower, Hector gets wide-eyed and proclaims "she has a dragon!"

[Jace, Extat]

14 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

When Armistice shows up in the depths of the command center burning some poor QA fuck with a flamethrower, Hector gets wide-eyed and proclaims "she has a dragon!"

Oh, cool. I was way too high to catch that.

[dbunting]

1 hour ago, dmc515 said:

When Armistice shows up in the depths of the command center burning some poor QA fuck with a flamethrower, Hector gets wide-eyed and proclaims "she has a dragon!"

Yeah I was like WTF, how would his character even know what a dragon is??? Not because the stories of dragons didn't exist in the times of the wild west but because there is no reason for him as a host to know what a dragon is.

I keep forgetting that these hosts could have been in a lot of different "worlds" before this one.

[Cas Stark]

It looks like I am not the only person who thought that "graces' mannerisms were very similar to those of teresa.  this can't just be a coincidence?  so what would be a reasonable theory there?

[RumHam]

18 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It looks like I am not the only person who thought that "graces' mannerisms were very similar to those of teresa.  this can't just be a coincidence?  so what would be a reasonable theory there?

That the producers are messing with us and wanted us to think at first that it was a flashback? That's all I got.