Why didn't Mormont use Jon as an envoy to spread the news of dead people walking and the watch needing aid?

[Varysblackfyre321]

Surely Jon should be seen more able to help the watch through going to his brother and begging for resources than well anything. Seems really weird. 

[Three-Fingered Pete]

After the midnight ride, I don't think Mormont was going to let him out of his jurisdiction. Jon and Thorne going together to talk to Tyrion would have made a great scene though.

[Foot_Of_The_King]

Rob was far south fighting a war by the time he became Lord of Winterfell, and shortly after King of the North.

[Unacosamedarisa]

Mormont wanted Jon, and his wolf, with the Watch when they went North of the Wall...

Quote

"All I know is that the blood of the First Men flows in the veins of the Starks. The First Men built the Wall, and it's said they remember things otherwise forgotten. And that beast of yours … he led us to the wights, warned you of the dead man on the steps. Ser Jaremy would doubtless call that happenstance, yet Ser Jaremy is dead and I'm not." Lord Mormont stabbed a chunk of ham with the point of his dagger. "I think you were meant to be here, and I want you and that wolf of yours with us when we go beyond the Wall."

Mormont was also grooming Jon for command, so felt that would be best done sticking with the Watch, rather than going South as an envoy for the Watch. 

Also, Jon's new to the Watch, and needs to get used to the fact that the Watch is his family now. When Tyrion is about leave the Wall and Mormont offers him an escort, Tyrion suggest Jon...

Quote

"If you insist, my lord," Tyrion said. "You might send young Snow. He would be glad for a chance to see his brothers."

Mormont frowned through his thick grey beard. "Snow? Oh, the Stark bastard. I think not. The young ones need to forget the lives they left behind them, the brothers and mothers and all that. A visit home would only stir up feelings best left alone. I know these things. My own blood kin … my sister Maege rules Bear Island now, since my son's dishonor. I have nieces I have never seen." 

So Mormont didn't want to introduce anymore doubts or conflicts in Jon. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

A 14 year old boy sent south as a messenger after he tried to desert? Think that's pretty self explanatory

Then you get into his direwolf and him being the LC's steward and it makes even less sense

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Aside from the text that was quoted above, Jon's father was murdered at King's Landing, his sisters are being held hostage, Robb is marching south to war. Jon may be a bastard and the Night's Watch takes no part, but who knows what Cersei would have done if she had gotten her hands on him? 

As far as Robb goes, it seems that he was kept in the dark very deliberately. Mormont sends an envoy to King's Landing and talks of sending an envoy to Renly (the man whose mother was a Fossoway). Yet the priority should be informing the people of Winterfell what's happened. 

Robb doesn't seem to know diddly squat about what's going on at the Wall. He doesn't seem to know about the wights, he doesn't seem to know about the great ranging or anything that happened after that. While we know that they have been receiving messages in both King's Landing and on Dragonstone, there is no mention of messages received at either Winterfell before Theon took it or messages received at Riverrun, and we know messages were sent. 

[Wisconsin]

9 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Surely Jon should be seen more able to help the watch through going to his brother and begging for resources than well anything. Seems really weird. 

Because Jon sucks at communication.  Jon has trouble convincing his own brothers of the threat.  He surely would fail to convince most people.  Jon is a poor choice for public relations.  

[Princess Daenerys]

16 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

A 14 year old boy sent south as a messenger after he tried to desert? Think that's pretty self explanatory

Then you get into his direwolf and him being the LC's steward and it makes even less sense

 

7 hours ago, Harpycide said:

Because Jon sucks at communication.  Jon has trouble convincing his own brothers of the threat.  He surely would fail to convince most people.  Jon is a poor choice for public relations.  

Good points from both of you.  

[Varysblackfyre321]

20 hours ago, Foot_Of_The_King said:

Rob was far south fighting a war by the time he became Lord of Winterfell, and shortly after King of the North.

He was at winterfel at the beginning of ACOK, we see he'd been there long enough for the lanisters to send a delegation to negotiate with him.

20 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

A 14 year old boy sent south as a messenger after he tried to desert? Think that's pretty self explanatory

Then you get into his direwolf and him being the LC's steward and it makes even less sense

Wouldn't Jon be 15 at this point? I'm seriously asking here Still worst thing that can happen is Jon's deserts but the benifits outweighs the risk-hell if Jon does desert and Robb aids his bastard-half brother, that can be used as a bargaining chip-Robb would seemingly owe the watch something over this. Hell this could be a very good test for the boy-is he ever going to be to resist aiding house Stark when he can help the watch more by not-if Jon deserts (successfully this time knowing full the dangers the watch and realm is facing right now), well at least, Jon deserted before he was granted a position of authority. Hell perhaps he doesn't really need to go to winterfel; perhaps some letters written by Jon explaining the Watch's  would have sufficed? At the very least it could have prompted Robb to investigate Jon's claims.

Im sorry you take issue with Jon being Mormont's steward? 

[Varysblackfyre321]

10 hours ago, Harpycide said:

Because Jon sucks at communication.  Jon has trouble convincing his own brothers of the threat.  He surely would fail to convince most people.  Jon is a poor choice for public relations.  

He doesn't really have to convince most people; just some of the really important ones. Robb would listen to Jon and Robb's followers would mostly obey Robb if he called on each house to send more to the watch.

[The Fattest Leech]

Because the author did not set Jon up to be an errand boy. Jon has a bigger purpose to in the books, to the end game, and his "training" required him to experience the free folk himself so he sees they are not the supposed monsters, and Jon needs to have Ghost/old gods expose him to obsidian, and then he needs to make obsidian weapons and hand them out to his friends, and most importantly is Jon needs to go "under the sea" (both above the wall and in to a subconscious coma like Bran) so he can connect to his ice/old gods talents. This is the main reason why Qhorin practically has to pry Jon from Mormont. It is the same reason why Jon was chosen to be LC Mormont's steward, Jon had bigger things to learn.

A Clash of Kings - Jon V

"Die," the raven muttered, pacing along Mormont's shoulders. "Die, die, die, die." The Old Bear sat slumped and silent, as if the burden of speech had grown too heavy for him to bear. But at last he said, "May the gods forgive me. Choose your men."

Qhorin Halfhand turned his head. His eyes met Jon's, and held them for a long moment. "Very well. I choose Jon Snow."

Mormont blinked. "He is hardly more than a boy. And my steward besides. Not even a ranger."

"Tollett can care for you as well, my lord." Qhorin lifted his maimed, two-fingered hand. "The old gods are still strong beyond the Wall. The gods of the First Men . . . and the Starks."

Mormont looked at Jon. "What is your will in this?"

"To go," he said at once.

The old man smiled sadly. "I thought it might be."

Dawn had broken when Jon stepped from the tent beside Qhorin Halfhand. The wind swirled around them, stirring their black cloaks and sending a scatter of red cinders flying from the fire.

"We ride at noon," the ranger told him. "Best find that wolf of yours."

A Clash of Kings - Jon VIII

They glimpsed the eagle twice more the day after, and heard the hunting horn behind them echoing against the mountains. Each time it seemed a little louder, a little closer. When night fell, the Halfhand told Ebben to take the squire's garron as well as his own, and ride east for Mormont with all haste, back the way they had come. The rest of them would draw off the pursuit. "Send Jon," Ebben had urged. "He can ride as fast as me."

"Jon has a different part to play."

"He is half a boy still."

"No," said Qhorin, "he is a man of the Night's Watch."

A Game of Thrones - Jon VI

"When I was little, my father used to insist that I attend him in the audience chamber whenever he held court. When he rode to Highgarden to bend his knee to Lord Tyrell, he made me come. Later, though, he started to take Dickon and leave me at home, and he no longer cared whether I sat through his audiences, so long as Dickon was there. He wanted his heir at his side, don't you see? To watch and listen and learn from all he did. I'll wager that's why Lord Mormont requested you, Jon. What else could it be? He wants to groom you for command!"

 

Jon was taken aback. It was true, Lord Eddard had often made Robb part of his councils back at Winterfell. Could Sam be right? Even a bastard could rise high in the Night's Watch, they said. "I never asked for this," he said stubbornly.

 

"None of us are here for asking," Sam reminded him.

 

And suddenly Jon Snow was ashamed.

 

Craven or not, Samwell Tarly had found the courage to accept his fate like a man. On the Wall, a man gets only what he earns, Benjen Stark had said the last night Jon had seen him alive. You're no ranger, Jon, only a green boy with the smell of summer still on you. He'd heard it said that bastards grow up faster than other children; on the Wall, you grew up or you died.

 

 

[Unacosamedarisa]

29 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

He was at winterfel at the beginning of ACOK, we see he'd been there long enough for the lanisters to send a delegation to negotiate with him.

Robb leaves Winterfell during AGoT, and never returns. You probably mean Riverrun. But Robb is in the field, there's no telling where he'll be in the month or so it'll take Jon to travel South... in fact, he leaves early in ACoK, into the Westerlands.  

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Book quotes have been given, showing Mormont wanted Jon to go on the Ranging with the rest of the Watch, not South as an envoy.  

[The Young Maester]

14 hours ago, Widow's Watch said:

Aside from the text that was quoted above, Jon's father was murdered at King's Landing, his sisters are being held hostage, Robb is marching south to war. Jon may be a bastard and the Night's Watch takes no part, but who knows what Cersei would have done if she had gotten her hands on him? 

As far as Robb goes, it seems that he was kept in the dark very deliberately. Mormont sends an envoy to King's Landing and talks of sending an envoy to Renly (the man whose mother was a Fossoway). Yet the priority should be informing the people of Winterfell what's happened. 

Robb doesn't seem to know diddly squat about what's going on at the Wall. He doesn't seem to know about the wights, he doesn't seem to know about the great ranging or anything that happened after that. While we know that they have been receiving messages in both King's Landing and on Dragonstone, there is no mention of messages received at either Winterfell before Theon took it or messages received at Riverrun, and we know messages were sent. 

Same as the Umbers, the Mormonts are not known for their wits.

Now that I think about it, why didn't the Nights Watch contact Winterfell first, because it's obvious that those south of the neck dont care for the Nights Watch and Jeor Mormont knows this. Winterfell and the Nights watch share a good history together. After all, according to legends, it was a Stark who founded the Nights Watch. 

[Bernie Mac]

1 hour ago, The Young Maester said:

Same as the Umbers, the Mormonts are not known for their wits.

Now that I think about it, why didn't the Nights Watch contact Winterfell first, because it's obvious that those south of the neck dont care for the Nights Watch and Jeor Mormont knows this. Winterfell and the Nights watch share a good history together. After all, according to legends, it was a Stark who founded the Nights Watch. 

They were contacted, they just did not take much notice. 

Maester Aemon had sent a lot of birds . . . not to one king, but to four. Wildlings at the gate, the message ran. The realm in danger. Send all the help you can to Castle Black. Even as far as Oldtown and the Citadel the ravens flew, and to half a hundred mighty lords in their castles. The northern lords offered their best hope, so to them Aemon had sent two birds. To the Umbers and the Boltons, to Castle Cerwyn and Torrhen's Square, Karhold and Deepwood Motte, to Bear Island, Oldcastle, Widow's Watch, White Harbor, Barrowton, and the Rills, to the mountain fastnesses of the Liddles, the Burleys, the Norreys, the Harclays, and the Wulls, the black birds brought their plea. Wildlings at the gate. The north in danger. Come with all your strength.

[Lord Lannister]

Your organization already has credibility problems. Are you really going to add to that by sending a fourteen year old boy as your spokesman? 

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, The Young Maester said:

Same as the Umbers, the Mormonts are not known for their wits.

Now that I think about it, why didn't the Nights Watch contact Winterfell first, because it's obvious that those south of the neck dont care for the Nights Watch and Jeor Mormont knows this. Winterfell and the Nights watch share a good history together. After all, according to legends, it was a Stark who founded the Nights Watch. 

Well, if I have the timeframe of your question right, Winterfell was taken by Theon and burned while Jon's ranging happened, so no one really to message to. Also, along this ranging as the NW discovers new info along the way, the wights attack and the ravens are set free sans messages. I will add that contacting Winterfell first was an immediate thought:

A Clash of Kings - Jon V

The Halfhand helped himself to an egg and cracked it on the edge of the bowl. "These kings will do what they will," he said, peeling away the shell. "Likely it will be little enough. The best hope is Winterfell. The Starks must rally the north."

"Yes. To be sure." The Old Bear unrolled a map, frowned at it, tossed it aside, opened another. He was pondering where the hammer would fall, Jon could see it. The Watch had once manned seventeen castles along the hundred leagues of the Wall, but they had been abandoned one by one as the brotherhood dwindled. Only three were now garrisoned, a fact that Mance Rayder knew as well as they did. "Ser Alliser Thorne will bring back fresh levies from King's Landing, we can hope. If we man Greyguard from the Shadow Tower and the Long Barrow from Eastwatch . . ."

"Greyguard has largely collapsed. Stonedoor would serve better, if the men could be found. Icemark and Deep Lake as well, mayhaps. With daily patrols along the battlements between."

And then when Jon returns to Castle Black, after he takes the arrow in his leg, Aemon does send out ravens to the other houses. They respond, in their own way as two wars are staring at this time. If you look at all the names you can tell that they responded and have joined Stannis (Asha chapters), or responded and went to CB first (Flints, Norrey), then joined Stannis. Heck, some of the houses even brought wet nurses for the wilding babies. The Karstarks and Boltons seem to be the only traitors out of the list of names mentioned.

A Storm of Swords - Jon VII

There was no use telling him that Robert Baratheon was dead. He would forget it, as he'd forgotten it before. "Maester Aemon sent him a bird," Jon agreed. That seemed to make Owen happy.

Maester Aemon had sent a lot of birds . . . not to one king, but to four. Wildlings at the gate, the message ran. The realm in danger. Send all the help you can to Castle Black. Even as far as Oldtown and the Citadel the ravens flew, and to half a hundred mighty lords in their castles. The northern lords offered their best hope, so to them Aemon had sent two birds. To the Umbers and the Boltons, to Castle Cerwyn and Torrhen's Square, Karhold and Deepwood Motte, to Bear Island, Oldcastle, Widow's Watch, White Harbor, Barrowton, and the Rills, to the mountain fastnesses of the Liddles, the Burleys, the Norreys, the Harclays, and the Wulls, the black birds brought their plea. Wildlings at the gate. The north in danger. Come with all your strength.

Well, ravens might have wings, but lords and kings do not. If help was coming, it would not come today.

 

A Dance with Dragons - Reek III

"He's not afraid of anyone, m'lord."

"He should be. Fear is what keeps a man alive in this world of treachery and deceit. Even here in Barrowton the crows are circling, waiting to feast upon our flesh. The Cerwyns and the Tallharts are not to be relied on, my fat friend Lord Wyman plots betrayal, and Whoresbane … the Umbers may seem simple, but they are not without a certain low cunning. Ramsay should fear them all, as I do. The next time you see him, tell him that."

 

A Dance with Dragons - A Ghost in Winterfell

"I do not claim Lord Wyman does the deeds himself. He brought three hundred men with him. A hundred knights. Any of them might have—"

"Night work is not knight's work," Lady Dustin said. "And Lord Wyman is not the only man who lost kin at your Red Wedding, Frey. Do you imagine Whoresbane loves you any better? If you did not hold the Greatjon, he would pull out your entrails and make you eat them, as Lady Hornwood ate her fingers. Flints, Cerwyns, Tallharts, Slates … they all had men with the Young Wolf."

"House Ryswell too," said Roger Ryswell.

[The Young Maester]

 

5 minutes ago, Bernie Mac said:

They were contacted, they just did not take much notice. 

Maester Aemon had sent a lot of birds . . . not to one king, but to four. Wildlings at the gate, the message ran. The realm in danger. Send all the help you can to Castle Black. Even as far as Oldtown and the Citadel the ravens flew, and to half a hundred mighty lords in their castles. The northern lords offered their best hope, so to them Aemon had sent two birds. To the Umbers and the Boltons, to Castle Cerwyn and Torrhen's Square, Karhold and Deepwood Motte, to Bear Island, Oldcastle, Widow's Watch, White Harbor, Barrowton, and the Rills, to the mountain fastnesses of the Liddles, the Burleys, the Norreys, the Harclays, and the Wulls, the black birds brought their plea. Wildlings at the gate. The north in danger. Come with all your strength.

Robb was quite dead by the time Maester Aemon sent the ravens.

I believe the reason for the northern houses not responding to the call at arms of the Nights watch, is that they were all still on shock of the events of the Red Wedding, and are completely leaderless as Roose Bolton is on his way North. Plus the end of the male stark line is really a shock to all Northman as something of this magnitude has never happened. 

 

Do you really think Wyman Manderly would have sent men to aid the Nights Watch when his son has just died, and the other is captured. Ramsay at the Dreadfort couldn't care less for wildings invading the North. Deepwood Motte was being held by Ironborn, Bear Island has just lost a daughter and its Lady is missing. Widows Watch has a pregnant woman due to give birth and mourning the death of her firstborn. Umbers have also lost an Heir and their Lord is captured. Castle Cerwyn is leaderless, and Karhold is being held by an ambitious castellan. I am still surprised that the clans didnt aid the watch as they completely hate wildlings. 

Northman are like sheeps, they need a leader (A shepherd) to lead them. Without a leader to lead them they are pretty reckless and start disputing between each other. 

If Winterfell hadn't burned, than we have a different case as a single raven from Maester Aemon would have done the trick, since Ser Rodrik knows what must be done, and Bran despite being a child knows that a wildling invasion is a serious threat to the North as he has probably grown up with stories of the wildling kings who have tried to get past the wall. 

[Bernie Mac]

1 minute ago, The Young Maester said:

 

Robb was quite dead by the time Maester Aemon sent the ravens.

Though we don't get to see the Wall in ACOK, it is difficult to believe that messages were not sent while the Robb was still living. Aemon can't have been asleep the entire time, and while Sam and Jon made it back late others got their before them and would have explained the dire situation. 

1 minute ago, The Young Maester said:

I believe the reason for the northern houses not responding to the call at arms of the Nights watch, is that they were all still on shock of the events of the Red Wedding, and are completely leaderless as Roose Bolton is on his way North. Plus the end of the male stark line is really a shock to all Northman as something of this magnitude has never happened. 

It is not the end of the male line, there are other Starks in the north. 

grrm: There are probably some descendants of offshoot branches from the family tree floating around the north, most likely in White Harbor and Barrowton

 

 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

8 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

Same as the Umbers, the Mormonts are not known for their wits.

Now that I think about it, why didn't the Nights Watch contact Winterfell first, because it's obvious that those south of the neck dont care for the Nights Watch and Jeor Mormont knows this. Winterfell and the Nights watch share a good history together. After all, according to legends, it was a Stark who founded the Nights Watch. 

The problem isn't that Maester Aemon didn't make contact. The problem is that it seems Robb may have been deliberately kept in the dark about the going-ons at the Wall. After Winterfell was sacked, Maester Aemon would have had to send a raven to Riverrun if he didn't do it previously.  

Even when Robb is making plans to make Jon his heir, he doesn't seem to know that Jon has gone beyond the Wall. He doesn't seem to know about the great ranging. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 8/2/2018 at 11:54 PM, Trefayne said:

After the midnight ride, I don't think Mormont was going to let him out of his jurisdiction. Jon and Thorne going together to talk to Tyrion would have made a great scene though.

Jon was not worthy of trust after that midnight desertion.

On 8/3/2018 at 12:28 AM, Universal Sword Donor said:

A 14 year old boy sent south as a messenger after he tried to desert? Think that's pretty self explanatory

Then you get into his direwolf and him being the LC's steward and it makes even less sense

Jon already tried to desert.  He would forget about his duties to the Watch and go help Robb Stark instead.  Jon is not trustworthy.  It was severely flawed thinking on the part of Samwell to get this guy elected.

On 8/3/2018 at 9:42 AM, Harpycide said:

Because Jon sucks at communication.  Jon has trouble convincing his own brothers of the threat.  He surely would fail to convince most people.  Jon is a poor choice for public relations.  

I agree.  His connection to the Starks meant people might listen to him but he's not good at communicating.  He is not articulate enough to get the message across.  He might try for a while and then sneak off to join the Starks.

9 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Your organization already has credibility problems. Are you really going to add to that by sending a fourteen year old boy as your spokesman? 

The story began with Jon still in training.  So Mormont should really not send a trainee.   Then Ned got arrested for treason and the war began shortly after.  Sending the son of traitor is not good for credibility after Jon became a sworn brother.