Dark Sister

[Megorova]

13 hours ago, Starkz said:

Dany is Azor Ahai, Jon is TPTWP. It is known. 

No, it isn't.

The dragon has three heads <- this is the key to the prophecy.

There are three saviours, not one. And all three of them will fulfill certain parts of prophecies about Azor Ahai and the promised Prince. For example, Jon will be wielder of Lightbringer; Dany will awake stone dragon; Jon will be the stone dragon, that will awake amidst salt and smoke; Rhaego was born under the Bleeding Star; as the Stallion that will mount the world, in certain sense he is also the promised Prince, Khal of Khals, like Jesus Christ was King of kings and Lord of lords, etc.

[kissdbyfire]

47 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I have to wonder if the immediate use of a Valyrian steel sword might be to make it through an Other on the way out of that cave, and then.........for the sword to find another true owner? 

It's what I'm thinking as well.

[Lady Fevre Dream]

6 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

It's what I'm thinking as well.

LOL  I'm all for getting out of that cave, but that's another subject. 

[The Map Guy]

37 minutes ago, dmfn said:

I don't think the weight is the issue, but certainly wouldn't be able to wield it properly. 

You don't upgrade from frog spear to Dark Sister!

Meera with Lord Rickard Stark's sword, the frogspear, and Dark Sister?

What if she made a Darth Maul type double light saber contraption with all three?

It would solve the balance issue of the weapon...and those crannogmen are quite crafty 

[The Fattest Leech]

2 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

Meera with Lord Rickard Stark's sword, the frogspear, and Dark Sister?

What if she made a Darth Maul type double light saber contraption with all three?

It would solve the balance issue of the weapon...and those crannogmen are quite crafty 

That's it! Meera is the dragon and she will literally have three heads on her sword.

[The Fattest Leech]

1 hour ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I have to wonder if the immediate use of a Valyrian steel sword might be to make it through an Other on the way out of that cave, and then.........for the sword to find another true owner? 

Good call.

15 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

It's what I'm thinking as well.

I agree. Either by the back door or the river (probably the river ) it seems Martin gave escape route options for a reason.

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 8/15/2018 at 12:30 PM, Lord Varys said:

If that's true, then Egg was a moron - unless they got Blackfyre back from Haegon. Then Dark Sister was just the other sword.

Not sure what's the point of that, though, Longclaw is Longclaw and Jon doesn't need two Valyrian steel swords.

The sadder piece seems to be that Bittersteel had no children. Another stillborn cadet branch, and such a promising one at that, considering the implications of Calla Blackfyre and Brynden Rivers possibly marrying...

What has Illyrio done to not get this most prestigious of ancestries ;-)?

 

I didn't see this. Can you point me to the source? 

[Lady Fevre Dream]

35 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

That's it! Meera is the dragon and she will literally have three heads on her sword.

LOLOL  You win the Internet for the day, well........at least for me. 

 

33 minutes ago, The Fattest Leech said:

Good call.

I agree. Either by the back door or the river (probably the river ) it seems Martin gave escape route options for a reason.

The chapters for the cave, the feeling in there (minus the interesting weirwood revelations) is reminiscent of a horror novel, the only thing missing is the "Get Out" and Eddie Murphy saying:  Too bad we can't stay, baby!! 

The idea of more than one exit sounds good to me, too. 

ETA:  It seems I left out the word exit in my last sentence. 

[Clegane'sPup]

4 hours ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

And, is Meera really shorter than Bran?  Where's my books? 

Weeeel, yessum you are correct. I made an improper choice of words.  Meera is scarcely taller that Bran.

A Clash of Kings - Bran III     Though near Robb's age, she was slim as a boy, with long brown hair knotted behind her head and only the barest suggestion of breasts. A woven net hung from one slim hip, a long bronze knife from the other; under her arm she carried an old iron greathelm spotted with rust; a frog spear and round leathern shield were strapped to her back.     Her brother was several years younger and bore no weapons. All his garb was green, even to the leather of his boots, and when he came closer Bran saw that his eyes were the color of moss, though his teeth looked as white as anyone else's. Both Reeds were slight of build, slender as swords and scarcely taller than Bran himself. They went to one knee before the dais.

11 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Dark Sister is not as heavy as a regular sword?

I'm wondering if a crannog person possibly of age with 14-15 year old Robb yet scarcely taller than 8-9 year old Bran -----would be able (even if valyrian steel is lighter than castle forged steel)---- be able to handle a three foot long sword.

I'm not much on weaponry. Martin's swords are large. Hell, maybe BR's sword ain't even a broad sword maybe it's an epee.

Did the usual google search:    The Broadsword has a double edged blade with 2-3 inches (5 to 7.5 cm) width at the base, which then tapers to a point. Depending on the users desire the sword ranged from 30 to 45 inches (76 to 114cm) in length with an average weight of 3 to 5 pounds (1 to 2 kg).

Granted Dark Sister may not be extremely heavy but it would be awkward for Meera the crannog person to use it.

 

 

[aryagonnakill#2]

As to Darksister being used to escape the cave, surely the COTF have plenty of obsidian since it is their primary weapon.

[kissdbyfire]

33 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:Weeeel, yessum you are correct. I made an improper choice of words.  Meera is scarcely taller that Bran.

A Clash of Kings - Bran III     Though near Robb's age, she was slim as a boy, with long brown hair knotted behind her head and only the barest suggestion of breasts. A woven net hung from one slim hip, a long bronze knife from the other; under her arm she carried an old iron greathelm spotted with rust; a frog spear and round leathern shield were strapped to her back.     Her brother was several years younger and bore no weapons. All his garb was green, even to the leather of his boots, and when he came closer Bran saw that his eyes were the color of moss, though his teeth looked as white as anyone else's. Both Reeds were slight of build, slender as swords and scarcely taller than Bran himself. They went to one knee before the dais.

I'm wondering if a crannog person possibly of age with 14-15 year old Robb yet scarcely taller than 8-9 year old Bran -----would be able (even if valyrian steel is lighter than castle forged steel)---- be able to handle a three foot long sword.

I'm not much on weaponry. Martin's swords are large. Hell, maybe BR's sword ain't even a broad sword maybe it's an epee.

Did the usual google search:    The Broadsword has a double edged blade with 2-3 inches (5 to 7.5 cm) width at the base, which then tapers to a point. Depending on the users desire the sword ranged from 30 to 45 inches (76 to 114cm) in length with an average weight of 3 to 5 pounds (1 to 2 kg).

Granted Dark Sister may not be extremely heavy but it would be awkward for Meera the crannog person to use it.

 

 

Did I tell you I love you today? Well, I do, I'm not knowledgable in weapons of any type, but the only ones I have ever looked up are the daggers because of the assassination attempt made on Jon in his last ADwD chapter. When he was... "marinated"? No... what's the word you always use? Damn it, can't remember but it's good. 

I still think it's totes doable, maybe even more so now that you've done this research. The fact that VS is lighter than regular steel is important. I did a quick and shoddy research, but could find nothing more specific about the weight os VS, or better said, how does it compare to regular steel. Is it three times lighter? Ten? No clue. But because this is a story w/ magic, VS will be as heavy or as light as Martin wants it to be. 

So, going back a bit... I do think Bloodraven took it when he went ranging and vanished. Yes, the heart tree bow was his fave weapon but you go ranging north of the Wall, you take your bloody sword too IMO. I fully believe BR knew that the WWs/Winter were about to become a threat again, and I fully believe he was onto "stuff" long before he actually met any of the CotF/Coldhands. But how much he knew, or in how much detail, I have no idea. So, he goes ranging, maybe even using a random "ranging" as a pretext to meet someone or try to learn more, carrying DS. Ends up in the cave one way or another, and still has the sword. I mean, if he was taken against his will - and I really, really don't believe this at all - the sword was on him. If he went willingly, I don't see him turning to any crow and saying, "oh, and by the way, please take my sword back to CB". 

So, yeah, I think DS is in the cave. And why make such a fuss about these famed and named swords if not to use them and have them play a part? Following that line of thought, the sword must be taken out of the cave so it can be used and play a part. Of the candidates we have now, Meera (who is small but very athletic) is the perfect choice, again, IMO.

 

[Clegane'sPup]

31 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Did I tell you I love you today? Well, I do,

Sincerely thanks. You are a gem on the site.

Now I got other stuffies to yap about.

[Clegane'sPup]

This is the thing that bothers me.

There are only 3-4  references in the five books about BR.

If a person has not read the Dunk & Egg short stories a person has no idea who Bran & companions meet in the cave and the reader dosna know what Dark Sister is.

This is gonna be where things go terribly wrong.

Martin makes a remark in answer to a question about whether BR took his sword to the Wall. Cool.

Except I have a dilemma because the stand alone ASOIAF intertwines with:

The Sworn Sword      When Prince Daemon had Blackfyre in his hand, there was not a man to equal him . . . not Ulrick Dayne with Dawn, no, nor even the Dragonknight with Dark Sister.

Is BR the DragonKnight as referenced ^ above?

 

[bent branch]

6 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

This is the thing that bothers me.

There are only 3-4  references in the five books about BR.

If a person has not read the Dunk & Egg short stories a person has no idea who Bran & companions meet in the cave and the reader dosna know what Dark Sister is.

This is gonna be where things go terribly wrong.

Martin makes a remark in answer to a question about whether BR took his sword to the Wall. Cool.

Except I have a dilemma because the stand alone ASOIAF intertwines with:

The Sworn Sword      When Prince Daemon had Blackfyre in his hand, there was not a man to equal him . . . not Ulrick Dayne with Dawn, no, nor even the Dragonknight with Dark Sister.

Is BR the DragonKnight as referenced ^ above?

 

No. The DragonKnight reference is Aemon Targaryen, brother to Aegon IV. In other words, he is from the generation before Bloodraven.

[kissdbyfire]

9 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

The Sworn Sword      When Prince Daemon had Blackfyre in his hand, there was not a man to equal him . . . not Ulrick Dayne with Dawn, no, nor even the Dragonknight with Dark Sister.

Is BR the DragonKnight as referenced ^ above?

Nope. The Dragonknight BR's uncle - he is Aegon IV's brother, BR is Aegon IV's son. 

'd by @bent branch

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

When he was... "marinated"? No... what's the word you always use? Damn it, can't remember but it's good. 

Tenderized.

[Clegane'sPup]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

So, yeah, I think DS is in the cave. And why make such a fuss about these famed and named swords if not to use them and have them play a part? Following that line of thought, the sword must be taken out of the cave so it can be used and play a part. Of the candidates we have now, Meera (who is small but very athletic) is the perfect choice, again, IMO.

I have all sort of tin foil around BR. His sword was the least of my imaginations.

Moving into how the Bran and companions get outta the cave is a different topic.

[the conquering bastard 25]

15 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Jorah does mention his sword... and Danaerys promises him a replacement.

 

In an earlier version of the chapter where Tyrion arrives at the Shy Maid with Ilyrio, a sword is given to them.  In the version that appeared in the books is was not so explicit, but it seems that in all likelihood, Blackfyre is in Aegon/Jon Cons possession, it was afterall left in Essos with the Blackfyre line.

However but comma I hate to do this but...

 

Illyio is a seller of Valaryian Steel, precious stones and dragon one among other things which is why I think Illyio, Varys and Littlefinger are plotting together. Yet that's another point.

 

So Illyio providing a Valyarian Steel isn't that much of a stretch in then7 kingdoms alone there are at least 200 such swords. Varys and Illyio have been plotting for awhile even before Argon was born! So getting the details just right would have been of the utmost importance.

 

Then there is the sword itself. Both Blackfyre and Lomgclaw according description at bastard swords(very different from a sword made for a female hand or a full swords, the difference lay in length, grooves and crossguard.

Both Bkackfyre and Longclaw were said to have silver inlay on the cross guard.the wore pommel very could have been a dragon not a bear. Its interesting that the cross guard was destroyed in the fire. Nor can I discount Mormonts ravens reaction. That bird damn near pissed itself when Jon was presented that sword.

 

[SirArthur]

16 hours ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I have to wonder if the immediate use of a Valyrian steel sword might be to make it through an Other on the way out of that cave, and then.........for the sword to find another true owner? 

One Sword to rule them all, One Sword to find them,
One Sword to bring them all and in the darkness bind them

[aryagonnakill#2]

6 hours ago, the conquering bastard 25 said:

However but comma I hate to do this but...

 

Illyio is a seller of Valaryian Steel, precious stones and dragon one among other things which is why I think Illyio, Varys and Littlefinger are plotting together. Yet that's another point.

 

So Illyio providing a Valyarian Steel isn't that much of a stretch in then7 kingdoms alone there are at least 200 such swords. Varys and Illyio have been plotting for awhile even before Argon was born! So getting the details just right would have been of the utmost importance.

 

Then there is the sword itself. Both Blackfyre and Lomgclaw according description at bastard swords(very different from a sword made for a female hand or a full swords, the difference lay in length, grooves and crossguard.

Both Bkackfyre and Longclaw were said to have silver inlay on the cross guard.the wore pommel very could have been a dragon not a bear. Its interesting that the cross guard was destroyed in the fire. Nor can I discount Mormonts ravens reaction. That bird damn near pissed itself when Jon was presented that sword.

 

Why on earth would Blackfyre be at the wall?  And if that is not the sword Jorah had, then where is it?  Why are we given the same story by two separate people who could not possibly be in on some random plot to gift Jon the sword have the same story?  Can you describe a series of events that would lead to this? 

We are told that Ilyrio trades in dragonbone, I do not recall ever hearing about him trading in Valyrian steal, and considering the fact that Tywin Lannister could not acquire any with money, I think it is well established that people do not give up the swords willingly, they are only taken by force.

Blackfyre was last seen in Essos with the house who took its name.  Ilyrio has some famous ancestors, somehow exercises control over the golden company, and he gave Aegon and Jon Con a sword.