Jump to content
Lord Varys

[spoilers] Aerea

Recommended Posts

Let's talk about the brave girl here.

And no, the creatures are not firewyrms in my opinion. They are something different. Firewyrms are mundane things known to hang out in the Fourteen Flames before the Doom. What Aerea encountered was post-Doom and deliberately Lovecractian weirdness. I don't think we should try to attach a common name to that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The name fascinates me. It seems to be a mix of Ageon and Arya, at least that's how I see it. She did seem to have some similarities with Arya with her strong personality. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aerea's death reminds me of Kane's in Alien and the worms have similarities to the black goo/worms in Prometheus. Xenomorph is a suitable name for those things created by the Doom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just got done reading this and wondered if there was a thread on it.  Don't have much to say right now but dear gods...

What makes me wonder even more than the manner of Aerea's death is the wounds Balerion apparently took.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m curios on if there’s a connection between the creatures and Rh’lor. Given they were literally described as “creatures of heat and fire” when killed by all things common cold. And Given Barth’s specific reference to them and their beliefs of there being magnilinent deities. I’m thinking perhaps Rh’llor is one such deity. Perhaps the being called great other and the being called Rh’llor are both striving to remake the World; one would see the world made its kingdom of ice. The other a kingdom of fire. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, the implications are that the sorcerer (princes) at Valyria did things that were infinitely more powerful and twisted than anything the dragonlords did. The dragonlords were the swords of Valyria, but not necessarily the guys most powerful or most twisted. There was always talk about demons there, and dreadful experiments and the like.

Sure, there may be living things at Valyria again - but are they human? Or completely human? We don't know. And we are not really supposed to find out.

If those firewyrms the slaves had issues with did to people what the things did to Aerea they wouldn't have lasted more than a day in the mines. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Guys, the implications are that the sorcerer (princes) at Valyria did things that were infinitely more powerful and twisted than anything the dragonlords did. The dragonlords were the swords of Valyria, but not necessarily the guys most powerful or most twisted. There was always talk about demons there, and dreadful experiments and the like.

Sure, there may be living things at Valyria again - but are they human? Or completely human? We don't know. And we are not really supposed to find out.

If those firewyrms the slaves had issues with did to people what the things did to Aerea they wouldn't have lasted more than a day in the mines. 

My understanding was that the dragonlords were sorcerers. Or at least the sorcerers were members of the dragonlord houses. I mean that is how they got to be dragonlords in the first place, right? Obviously not every member of the houses would be sorcerers but that would be their focus. That would have been where power stemmed from in Valyria so they would try to develop it and hoard it.

Dragons would have been among their first and more successful experiments. And I am becoming increasingly convinced that they bound themselves to dragons using blood-magic which changed them. 

So I also think that whatever is there in Valyria now is their experiments and magic gone rampant. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, yeah, some of the dragonlords may also have been sorcerers, but not all of them. And there may have been powerful sorcerers who were no dragonlords for this or that reason - sorcerers there were more powerful than any dragonlord could hope to be.

Valyria was a city of sorcery, and that's all gone now. Only the dragons survived.

The theories on the Doom imply that it was caused because too many of the sorcerers maintaining the spells controlling the Fourteen Flames were killed (likely by the Faceless Men, who may also have used a suicide squad to actually break certain key spells to trigger the Doom at exactly the right time) - in combination with the description of the picture of Valyria - the fires of the Fourteen Flames fueling the magic of the Valyrian pyromancers - we have a strong 'magical setting'. In addition there is talk about the experiments, talk about them delving too deep (like Tolkien's dwarves who woke the Balrog) in search for stuff, talk about demons and the like.

Valyria is a living hell now, a place where demons actually work the earth - or at least creatures people would classify as such.

This thing raised the 'magical level' of the world to an entirely different level. Up until now people thought, well, there was great natural catastrophe, big deal. And the demon road and all is just a strange name. Now we know that there is something to all that talk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you guys think would have happened if Aerea had survived as Balerion's rider? Do you think she would have been queen one day? Would they have married her to Aemon (after Daenerys' death)? She would not have been pushed aside after Aemon's death on Tarth the way Rhaenys and Jocelyn were, that much seems to be clear, no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Oh, yeah, some of the dragonlords may also have been sorcerers, but not all of them. And there may have been powerful sorcerers who were no dragonlords for this or that reason - sorcerers there were more powerful than any dragonlord could hope to be.

Valyria was a city of sorcery, and that's all gone now. Only the dragons survived.

The theories on the Doom imply that it was caused because too many of the sorcerers maintaining the spells controlling the Fourteen Flames were killed (likely by the Faceless Men, who may also have used a suicide squad to actually break certain key spells to trigger the Doom at exactly the right time) - in combination with the description of the picture of Valyria - the fires of the Fourteen Flames fueling the magic of the Valyrian pyromancers - we have a strong 'magical setting'. In addition there is talk about the experiments, talk about them delving too deep (like Tolkien's dwarves who woke the Balrog) in search for stuff, talk about demons and the like.

Valyria is a living hell now, a place where demons actually work the earth - or at least creatures people would classify as such.

This thing raised the 'magical level' of the world to an entirely different level. Up until now people thought, well, there was great natural catastrophe, big deal. And the demon road and all is just a strange name. Now we know that there is something to all that talk.

I imagine that the Sorcerers used some of the slaves in order to breed hybrid human/animal creatures.   TWOIAF also suggests that human sacrifice was a prerequisite for their spells (and Dany uses human sacrifice to hatch her dragon eggs in AGOT). 

And, some of those hybrids survived the Doom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

What do you guys think would have happened if Aerea had survived as Balerion's rider? Do you think she would have been queen one day? Would they have married her to Aemon (after Daenerys' death)? She would not have been pushed aside after Aemon's death on Tarth the way Rhaenys and Jocelyn were, that much seems to be clear, no?

She would have never be allowed to succeed when children or granchildren of Jaehaerys lived, Balerion or not. They others had Vhagar, Caraxes, Vermithor and Silverwing. Enough dragons to take down Balerion, no matter how large. If married to Aemon or Baelon, she wouldn't have been queen either, since they both predeceased Jaehaerys.

Edited by Alyssa of House Arryn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

What do you guys think would have happened if Aerea had survived as Balerion's rider? Do you think she would have been queen one day? Would they have married her to Aemon (after Daenerys' death)? She would not have been pushed aside after Aemon's death on Tarth the way Rhaenys and Jocelyn were, that much seems to be clear, no?

The thing that I wondered about that incident is what would have happened if Rhaenys hadn't been pregnant and had gone too, or if she was pregnant but had gone there afterwards and she had avenged her fathers death and not Baelon avenging his brother?  Would the commons have rallied around her and made things far more complicated for who was next in line for the throne?  Add to that all the Lords who did support her, maybe she'd have had even more support if she'd have come and dealt with the mess on Tarth and smite her fathers killers.

Aerea on Balerion certainly would have been an issue, especially as Viserys having ridden Balerion counted in his favour when it came to choosing a monarch so her being on him would have surely been a very potent symbol.  Although her being a woman would still have been an issue for the lords when there were male choies, but in general they'd have had to do something with her because her being on Balerion is no small thing particularly as under Andal succession she could have been queen instead of Jaehaerys. 

Edited by naseridrl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Aerea never got around to learn what being a princess - and the Heir Apparent - can mean in relation to power. She just enjoyed being at the center of attention in KL and then being lonely on Dragonstone. If she had lived she would have learned what all that meant, and Balerion is Balerion. If she had been Aemon's wife then the choice would have been between her child - or herself, considering she had, in the end, the better claim, as the daughter of Aegon the Uncrowned. Even Rogar Baratheon admitted that ;-).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

Aerea never got around to learn what being a princess - and the Heir Apparent - can mean in relation to power. She just enjoyed being at the center of attention in KL and then being lonely on Dragonstone. If she had lived she would have learned what all that meant, and Balerion is Balerion. If she had been Aemon's wife then the choice would have been between her child - or herself, considering she had, in the end, the better claim, as the daughter of Aegon the Uncrowned. Even Rogar Baratheon admitted that ;-).

She was too young when she was in KL to really know what she needed to learn, plus she'd been through a lot in her young years and was probably just enjoying finally having things more secure and happier and people giving her attention.   And then after was miserable on Dragonstone with a mother that tried her best but couldn't fix the damage of the past and all that time they'd spent apart and reconnect.

Also during her time in KL did anyone want to teach her and take the risk of being seen as trying to groom her for some kind of coup?  J&A were young and likely to have kids so Aerea inheriting was probably not something they were thinking of and once they had Daenerys and she survived no one was really going to be thinking too much of Aerea anymore, then add in the kids that followed her.  If Aerea had survived and been riding Balerion and started to realise there was power in her position (who's daughter she was) and that she was riding the Conqueror's dragon, she may have put a real cat amongst the pigeons.

I'd also be interested to what Alysanne would think of it all.  She seemed to perhaps believe in absolute primogeniture at least where her own kids were involved, did she believe Rhaena came first as eldest?  Obviously once her own kids are born the waters get muddied and she'd back her kids, but even then she believed it should be Rhaenys her granddaughter not her son who came next.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Aerea had lived, they would either have been forced to marry her to Aemon (after Daenerys' death, at least), or they would have to fear/prepare for her leading a rebellion later on. She had the better claim, and Rogar already tried once. If she had married somebody else her husband and his family would have to be really selfless guys to resist the temptation. And I doubt the woman Aerea was about to grow into would have been happy with her lot in life after she fully understood how her dear uncle and grandmother had treated her.

There are even subtle hints that Queen Rhaena tried to groom her for such a power grab - she wanted her to become a dragonrider - not Balerion's rider, apparently, but a dragonrider still.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Guys, the implications are that the sorcerer (princes) at Valyria did things that were infinitely more powerful and twisted than anything the dragonlords did. The dragonlords were the swords of Valyria, but not necessarily the guys most powerful or most twisted. There was always talk about demons there, and dreadful experiments and the like.

Sure, there may be living things at Valyria again - but are they human? Or completely human? We don't know. And we are not really supposed to find out.

If those firewyrms the slaves had issues with did to people what the things did to Aerea they wouldn't have lasted more than a day in the mines. 

In other words, Valyrian sorcerers were the magical equivalent of mad scientists. 

Aerea is likely the only person in history to have visited the ruined old Freehold of Valyria, and come back alive, even if only briefly, she and Balerion both. I think it is due to Balerion being a enormous dragon that allowed them to escape with their lives. Something that could leave a nine foot long gash on a dragon like Balerion with scales described as harder than steel is a force to be reckoned with. 

My guess, is if there are creatures like the Others with ice magic, maybe there is an equivalent with fire magic. 

Had she lived she would have had stories to tell. Had she lived to wed and breed, her claim would have been presented at the Great Council. That would have made things messier for the Velaryons since both groups would be pushing claims through the female line. 

Edited by Fire Eater

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Mrs.Grumpy said:

What I wonder is what did she wanted to say with “I never...” ? What?  Never thought you would come back?

No idea. And that's deliberately unclear. She could have tried to apologize for where she had gone, she could have thought she was still talking to people/creatures/demons she has to thank for the parasites that killed her. We don't know.

But the descriptions really don't sound like firewyrms to me.

1 hour ago, Fire Eater said:

My guess, is if there are creatures like the Others with ice magic, maybe there is an equivalent with fire magic.

I don't know. Not everything does have to be - or should - this much mirroring the other thing. For me it is more fun to imagine unspeakable horrors and the like, forbidden doors being opened, evil demons being summoned, etc.

What the purpose of all that was - or whether those things (or whatever injured Balerion) were not just freed/created through the Doom (because it opened doors, so to speak, the Valyrians just knocked at while they were still around) cannot really be answered.

1 hour ago, Fire Eater said:

Had she lived she would have had stories to tell. Had she lived to wed and breed, her claim would have been presented at the Great Council. That would have made things messier for the Velaryons since both groups would be pushing claims through the female line. 

That's why I say they would most likely been forced to marry Aerea to ensure that she does not make trouble as a grown woman. Had she been free to marry somebody else - to end, perhaps, as Corlys Velaryon's or Boremund Baratheon's husband (or worse still, the husband of an ambitious Hightower or Lannister) Jaehaerys may have gotten a rebellion long before the question of his succession came up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for Aerea's control of Balerion:

Quote

In the Red Keep, Aerea had loved her horse, her hounds, and her friends. On Dragonstone, the dragons became her friends…her only friends, aside from Elissa Farman…and she began to count the days until she could mount one and fly far, far away.

That might be just be Gyldayn's interpretation or his vivid imagination (chances are not that great the Princess Aerea talked with some maester about her innermost thoughts) but if we keep in mind that after Aerea's conversation with Alysanne and her last severe quarrel with her mother the girl might not have been that eager to KL after all. She may have been wroth with Elissa for abandoning her, Alysanne for having a daughter to supplant her, and her mother for being the way she is.

It is speculation that Aerea wanted to fly to a place she knew - KL, Fair Isle, whatever. Perhaps she just wanted to see the world, to go somewhere where nobody went before.

If we look at Dany's control over Drogon in ADwD then there are hints there that Drogon does only do things and flies only where Dany truly wants to go, not to places she thinks she has to go (like Meereen) but does not *really* want to go at heart. It could be similar with Aerea and Balerion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the similarity with the firewyrm description in AFFC is too acute for it not to be a reference. The spells used to keep the Fourteen Flames under control also probably kept the firewyrms out, but there maybe have been brief lapses, explaining why the odd slave did die in the mines. Then when the Doom happened, the firewyrms rode the lava vents out all over the place, and are probably now quite common.

The wound Balerion took seemed quite severe though, and from something larger than a firewyrm. That leads the possibility that maybe he was infested as well, but kept trucking after they came out, being much larger and tougher, or even that wild dragons might exist in Valyria still.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×