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Rant & Rave Season 8 [Spoilers]: When you are cool like a cucumber, as evil as the mother of madness, but never as perfect as the pet!

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19 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

I mean she still got a lot of money out of it, but......yeah, I doubt she signed on to play Fantasy Hitler.

It's not just that though... The worse is all the hype and selling it to everyone, including the actors, that Dany is so badass, GIRL POWER WOMEN ON TOP OMFG SO AWESOME, and then pull this ridiculous 180 at the 11th hour, cuz it's oh so shocking. Hacks. 

I now understand why Clarke said she was in shock thinking *this* would be the lasting flavour of Dany people would have in their mouths (paraphrasing). Yikes.

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Like a lot of people, I wish I'd just stopped watching at the end of S4. It's been unrelentingly rancid since then, and has somehow managed to become worse than ever during this final season.

I was all set to call it a day following 8.03, but then I realised that after the not-so-Long Night was brought to an end by Melissandre telling a teenage girl, 'We need the old Stone Cold back!' I simply didn't care anymore, so why not just watch it and laugh.

The worst part is, they actually had everything in place to bring the series to a palatable climax. If, for example, Rhaegal had died in the act of protecting Jon from Viserion (instead of being one-shotted by Bluto), allowing him to deal a fatal blow to the Night King while he was choking Arya, it would have made sense for Daenarys to resent the man who everyone else was hailing as a hero. Instead, Jon is suddenly being lauded for things he did two/three seasons ago, and Arya has shrugged off killing humanity's greatest threat like it was all in a day's work. Only after the BoW should Daenarys have learned of Jon's parentage, which would reasonably add to the paranoia and grief she was rightly experiencing, ahead of this being further exacerbated by his inability to deal with their relationship being incestuous. That's where Tyrion and Varys would impress upon Jon the importance of him putting his uneasiness to one side and marrying Daenarys for the good of the realm, which, Jon being Jon, he would agree to. This could perhaps have involved Tyrion having Jaime talk to Jon about the joys of incest, prompting ol' Kingslayer to chase after Arya and attempt to thwart the mission to assassinate  Cersei, which obviously everyone would have suggested as the logical next step. Maybe, after Arya has killed Cersei and Jaime, she executes Sansa's secret order to sit Jon on the Iron Throne after the gates are opened to the Northern army. Cue Targaryen CGI meltdown.

Instead, what we have is an unsalvageable mess with virtually no satisfying conclusions to any character arc. The only thing that stood out for me in the last episode was how funny it would have been if, using the Star Wars battle droid logic from 8.03, the Undertaker had inadvertently killed himself when he brained Qyburn in order to get to his younger brother Kane.

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Episode 5.

Oh boy.  Episode 5.

Here's the thing.  The entire universe is freaking the fuck out about how shit it is.  My wife and I feel like this is just more of the same.  It's just that we've known for several seasons now the show runners don't give a shit, so it's not some big shock to see character twists that, while predictable, come too fast or too stupidly to be satisfying.  But other people have been making excuses, holding out hope that in the end it will all add up to something so spectacular that no matter how many stumbles there are along the way, it'll all be worth it.  With one episode left, and characters still behaving completely counter to their nature, the hope in these people is beginning to crack.  And seeing the writing on the wall for the very first time at this point has to be a MASSIVE system shock.  So I get why some are absolutely devastated by this episode.  For myself?  Like I said, just more of the same.

Of course, there are still those that don't see any problems at all.  For instance, my brother in law.  His reaction?  "YEAH!  SHE'S HER DADDY'S DAUGHTER!  KAHLEESI FINALLY WENT MAD QUEEN!  HELL YEAH!"

*SIGH*

I'm not one to say the flip was completely unpredictable.  On the contrary, the signs have been there for a long time.  However, the TIMING of the flip was the most idiotic story telling we've seen from the Ds.  It literally was to shock and ONLY to shock, which means it didn't shock even a little.  If every moment is supposed to be some epic OMG CAN'T BELIEVE IT! you eventually become immune to it.  And we've definitely had enough of it to where it's no longer impressive.

In complete isolation, on its own, if I had never watched an episode of Game of Thrones, I would think, "Holy fuck!  This show must really be incredible.  What have I been missing out on?"

The problem is, this isn't supposed to be a free-standing episode all on its own.  It's supposed to be the culmination of almost a decade of story telling from the show's perspective.  As my wife said during one scene in a mocking tone, "what'ya mean there's an ongoing story?  Isn't every episode a completely different thing?"  And sadly, that's where the show is at now.  Not even every episode.  Sometimes every scene.

The Ds got the story beats, and they literally just listed them out and said, "We have to do this, then this, then this, then this" with not a single bit of connection between events.  Oh, and Baysplosions, 'cause yeah.

So, which characters did they ruin, or continue to ruin this week?

1. Arya.  She's been on a path to "kill the queen" for several seasons now.  Meaning Cersei so everybody put your "she'll kill Danny" argument down along with the pitchforks.  And at the last minute, her entire reason for existing disappears.  At least Sandor finally did something other than obsess about killing his brother.  *SIGH*

2. Jamie.  Seriously.  Back to Cersei?  I get that the Ds truly believe Cersei was one of the heroes of the story and needed to have a tragic romantic end.  I get that, really.  But gods be damned figure out a believable way to make that happen.  Don't have Jamie spend seven seasons becoming a better person, then have him flip so completely back to idiot that he even renounces the one thing his entire life has been about before running back to Cersei like a lost puppy.  Seriously, he never cared about the commoners?  REALLY?  THEN WHY THE BLOODY BLUE FUCK DID HE KILL THE MAD KING?  Why didn't he just run and let shit fall where it may if he didn't care.  Fuck you D&D.  I don't believe I've said that yet, but FUCK YOU.  I don't care if themes are for eighth grade book reports, characters are FOR EVERYBODY.  YOU FUCKING FUCKS.

3. Euron.  Wait, nevermind.  He was ruined the second he showed up.

4. Danny.  Now, I'm not saying she shouldn't have ended up where she ended up.  I do think this was her path all along.  The problem is the execution.  Had she not waited to hear the bells, that'd be one thing.  Still stupid, but not AS stupid.  Had the battle been progressing yet, and she saw an opportunity to take out the enemy army but happened to set fire to some bystanders then causing the caches of wildfire to blow, fair enough.  But this moment of, "oh, they surrendered, let me think for a moment, nah, torch it" was really ridiculously played.  So, so stupid.

5. The entire northern army.  The non Dothraki (who were completely wiped out and now extinct in episode three, but now seem to be in even greater numbers than before), non Greyworm following folks who also appear to have somehow replenished their ranks from utter decimation.  But seriously, the northmen, Jon's army, just flat out do NOT take orders from Jon.  And all the honor and whatever goes right out the window the second Danny loses her shit.  So, Danny loses it, and rather than be horrified and maybe, I dunno, go for cover at the worst or try to help the commoners at best, they decide the best course of action is to start attacking everybody, raping women, pillaging, whatever.  What a buncha stupid.

6. Greyworm.  Meh.  Not worth the argument at this point.

7. The Golden Company.  What was the point?  Really?  WHAT WAS THE POINT?  Master tacticians.  MWHAHAHAHAH.  SMH.

8. Varys.  Though to be honest, he's been ruined for a good long while.  At least the acting was sound in his final moments.  What a waste of potential.

On the bright side, Sandor at least got a fitting end.  Though to be honest, that fight was so one sided I thought I was back to watching WWE during the Triple H years.  Couldn't the Ds hire a fight consultant that could show them something other than the typical "bad guy always beats good guy short of good guy pulling off the miracle out of nowhere win?"  No?  Why bother building a believable fight when you can just phone it in and check that box off on the list of things to do?

Also, Quyburn.  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!  *CHECKS BOX*

Jon needs to do something, but at this point I fear that something will be to tell everybody again, "she's my queen," then run north to hide.  The constant brooding, sulking do nothingness of Jon Snow has finally reached a point where I'm beyond sick of it.  Why the every loving shit was he brought back from death?  He's useless in battle.  He's useless in politics.  He's useless in tactics.  He's now made himself useless to Danny in bed, which was apparently his major selling point over the last two seasons.  What's he got?  A shitty scowl and a bad haircut.  Fuck off, Jon.  And take the Ds with you.

So where do we head now?  I'm assuming that, now that Cersei has been painted as the tragic hero of the story and Danny's the true big-bad, Arya will have to swoop in to kill her.  Maybe Sansa can show up to bitch-face snark over the corpse?  Jon can brood in the corner before running north to live stupidly ever after with his brocrush Giantsbane and that dog looking thing that they made mean nothing and he didn't care at all about two episodes ago.  Tyrion will likely die, probably by burnination for disagreeing with Danny about what meal to prepare to celebrate her "victory" or something equally stupid.

Cersei better not be alive.  

I don't even care who "wins" at this point.  The show has made it clear that nothing matters, none of what we watched meant a thing, and nobody is good, decent, growing or real.  And the bottom line is, everybody loses.  Including us.  In fact, mostly us.  We're losers.  We suck.  And the Ds are holding up their middle fingers screaming, "FUCK YOU LOSERS!  FUCK YOU YOU STUPID FUCKS!" and laughing their asses off.

Credit to them, they managed to actually get under my skin once again.  Two episodes ago I thought I burned out.  To the point where last week I barely managed to even write up my thoughts, and certainly didn't get angry about it.  So again, kudos, dickheads.  Can you get me angry one last time next week?  I guess we'll see.

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16 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

I don't even care who "wins" at this point.  The show has made it clear that nothing matters, none of what we watched meant a thing, and nobody is good, decent, growing or real.  And the bottom line is, everybody loses.  Including us.  In fact, mostly us.  We're losers.  We suck.  And the Ds are holding up their middle fingers screaming, "FUCK YOU LOSERS!  FUCK YOU YOU STUPID FUCKS!" and laughing their asses off.

 

Love your thoughts here. This post says it all. I disagree that Dany will go mad in the books, but agree on everything else.

And the snippet above is what I would also like to say to HBO and D&D. They shouldnt have done this. They are not artists. They are hacks.

Fuck them both, and if Disney doesn't pull Star Wars from them then I expect they will single-handedly destroy my 2 favorite fantasy tales ever. so Fuck them.

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1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

t's not just that though... The worse is all the hype and selling it to everyone, including the actors, that Dany is so badass, GIRL POWER WOMEN ON TOP OMFG SO AWESOME, and then pull this ridiculous 180 at the 11th hour, cuz it's oh so shocking. Hacks. 

I now understand why Clarke said she was in shock thinking *this* would be the lasting flavour of Dany people would have in their mouths (paraphrasing). Yikes.

All the actors, no exception, were done so dirty.

NCW, who was so excited to play Jaime's identity/redemption arc, got 4 seasons as Cersei's little bitch, save for some fleeting moments of IC stuff ("I am not that man anymore"...welp turns out you are !). No wonder he stated recently that his favourite scenes were the bath scene and the bearpit scene (cuuuurious).

Isaac HW was supposed to play this major character, a key player who struggled with his destiny and powers, had to play a lifeless meme making robot.

Gwendoline Christie loves that Brienne's story isn't just about being mocked, but also about overcoming the obstacles and being loved for who they are; nah girl your character ends up humilated in the worst possible ways, and everything she's ever accomplished only added up to her misery.

Kit ? The world's most expensive extra. He was paid millions to literally look dumbfounded and say on line per episode.

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11 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Love your thoughts here. This post says it all. I disagree that Dany will go mad in the books, but agree on everything else.

And the snippet above is what I would also like to say to HBO and D&D. They shouldnt have done this. They are not artists. They are hacks.

Fuck them both, and if Disney doesn't pull Star Wars from them then I expect they will single-handedly destroy my 2 favorite fantasy tales ever. so Fuck them.

Honestly, I do hope HBO management at least thinks a little bit about the reaction fans are having to what they've done this season.  And I REALLY hope Disney does.  I haven't watched any of the newer Star Wars movies, but I know there's a sizable amount of fans still enjoying them.  I'd hate to see these idiots get paid millions more to destroy yet another story.

2 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

Gwendoline Christie loves that Brienne's story isn't just about being mocked, but also about overcoming the obstacles and being loved for who they are; nah girl your character ends up humilated in the worst possible ways, and everything she's ever accomplished only added up to her misery.

Brienne's story has been shunted, hung, beaten, raped, desecrated, burnt and dipped in acid.  Why have her sleep with Jamie if he was ultimately gonna run back to Cersei?  That moment without him running back to Cersei was fine.  The second he turned tail it utterly decimated Brienne's arc, and took massive chunks out of Jamie's.  Ham-fisted stupidity at its finest.

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11 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

Brienne's story has been shunted, hung, beaten, raped, desecrated, burnt and dipped in acid.  Why have her sleep with Jamie if he was ultimately gonna run back to Cersei?  That moment without him running back to Cersei was fine.  The second he turned tail it utterly decimated Brienne's arc, and took massive chunks out of Jamie's.  Ham-fisted stupidity at its finest.

What's especially heartbreaking is that now everything that she has is tainted. Oathkeeper, her armour, her knighthood, all of this was given to her by Jaime because he supposedly loved her and admired her, and now everytime she's going to look at them will be a reminder of what he did to her...the guy who took her virginity, kept on having sex with her for a few weeks, and fucked off into the night. What the actual hell...

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52 minutes ago, Dragons Are Real said:

And the Ds are holding up their middle fingers screaming, "FUCK YOU LOSERS!  FUCK YOU YOU STUPID FUCKS!" and laughing their asses off.

Those fuckers have always been obnoxious frat boys at heart, and seeing as the only lesson they retained at their creative writing course was 'Subvert Expectations', they're just sitting around, laughing at how we're just mad we didn't see this shit coming and thinking they're so brilliant.

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5 minutes ago, HairGrowsBack said:

What's especially heartbreaking is that now everything that she has is tainted. Oathkeeper, her armour, her knighthood, all of this was given to her by Jaime because he supposedly loved her and admired her, and now everytime she's going to look at them will be a reminder of what he did to her...the guy who took her virginity, kept on having sex with her for a few weeks, and fucked off into the night. What the actual hell...

Yes. It was a perfect moment when he knighted her. Could have - should have - left it there. The shagging added absolutely nothing to the story.

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Just now, House Cambodia said:

Yes. It was a perfect moment when he knighted her. Could have - should have - left it there. The shagging added absolutely nothing to the story.

My guess is that George told D&D they would and so they went on and checked that box but decided to piss on it immediately after.

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My friend and i had marvellous fun watching this episode at the same time and live reacting via messenger. Much hilarity, my favourite part was the Golden Company being destroyed. I laughed for a good five minutes afterwards.

oops, i mean almost all of the Golden Company. Lets not forget Shergar and his glorious bangs, who lived to ride again at the end of the episode, somehow

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1 hour ago, HairGrowsBack said:

My guess is that George told D&D they would and so they went on and checked that box but decided to piss on it immediately after.

I don't know why, but D&D seem weirdly invested in Jaime and Cersei's lust for each other, like, they romanticise the hell out of a toxic incestuous relationship. I mean, I get it DB Weiss, if your kink is brother sister incest and zombie polar bears more power to you, but don't write that shit as if it's normal or compatible with a redemption arc in the slightest.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

I don't know why, but D&D seem weirdly invested in Jaime and Cersei's lust for each other, like, they romanticise the hell out of a toxic incestuous relationship. I mean, I get it DB Weiss, if your kink is brother sister incest and zombie polar bears more power to you, but don't write that shit as if it's normal or compatible with a redemption arc in the slightest.

They gave Cersei a great death, too. Comforted by someone who "loves" her and over quickly.

They love the villains.

The victims, like Sandor, they take away everything they are, and say well, the trauma was good! :rolleyes:

Edited by Le Cygne

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11 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

I don't know why, but D&D seem weirdly invested in Jaime and Cersei's lust for each other, like, they romanticise the hell out of a toxic incestuous relationship. I mean, I get it DB Weiss, if your kink is brother sister incest and zombie polar bears more power to you, but don't write that shit as if it's normal or compatible with a redemption arc in the slightest

Exactly ! And what's even more infuriating is the horde of "book fans" whose interpretation is completely influenced by the show and tell you that Jaime is "addicted" to Cersei in the books as well and that it's a love story. GRRM's response to that bullshit was literally "you know that's incest, right ?".

I don't know if it's an incest kink, a stanning of Lena Headey, or a weird combination of both, but it sure as hell ended up ruining not one, not two, but three great character arcs.

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1 minute ago, Le Cygne said:

They gave Cersei a great death, too. Comforted by someone who "loves" her and over quickly.

1. Jamie should have mentioned in passing that it was Tyrion's escape plan, for which Tyrion has risked his life. That would REALLY have pissed her off in her final moments.

2. It should have been stored wildfire overwhelming them in the crypts for a bit of poetic justice.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Beardy the Wildling said:

I don't know why, but D&D seem weirdly invested in Jaime and Cersei's lust for each other, like, they romanticise the hell out of a toxic incestuous relationship. I mean, I get it DB Weiss, if your kink is brother sister incest and zombie polar bears more power to you, but don't write that shit as if it's normal or compatible with a redemption arc in the slightest.

I honestly think they are more invested in Cersei and Tyrion.  Jaime is just there in their minds to service their favorite Lannisters.  I honestly think they think Tyrion and Cersei would be the perfect pair, LOL  In their minds, all Cersei has done wrong is screw the wrong brother. 

Edited by Lady Fevre Dream

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23 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I honestly think they are more invested in Cersei and Tyrion.  Jaime is just there in their minds to service their favorite Lannisters.  I honestly think they think Tyrion and Cersei would be the perfect pair, LOL  In their minds, all Cersei has done wrong is screw the wrong brother. 

It's more about Lena, I never saw them as shipping Tyrion and Cersei, Tyrion is always propping her up and blabbing how she's not a monster, even though she clearly is and he used to know that, and Jamie is there, whatever his book story was, they cut it, he could still end up going back to her, or not, all the show tells me is they die together, hopefully a better death.  

And if they wanted to show Cersei as a tragic victim, they had Euron right there to make her pay for trying to use one last person in her quest for power who turns out to be darker than she is, that would have been a fittingly tragic end for her, and it may go that way in the books.  She starts with Lancel, nice kid, who she manipulates and breaks, moves through the Kettleblacks, and ends up tied to Euron, a truly evil, batshit sadist.  

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6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

It's more about Lena, I never saw them as shipping Tyrion and Cersei, Tyrion is always propping her up and blabbing how she's not a monster, even though she clearly is and he used to know that, and Jamie is there, whatever his book story was, they cut it, he could still end up going back to her, or not, all the show tells me is they die together, hopefully a better death.  

And if they wanted to show Cersei as a tragic victim, they had Euron right there to make her pay for trying to use one last person in her quest for power who turns out to be darker than she is, that would have been a fittingly tragic end for her, and it may go that way in the books.  She starts with Lancel, nice kid, who she manipulates and breaks, moves through the Kettleblacks, and ends up tied to Euron, a truly evil, batshit sadist.  

I don't think they 'ship' Tyrion and Cersei, I just think they intellectually think they are the best 'pairing' in some ways, maybe in a more emotional way.  It may have a lot to do with how their Cersei is different than book Cersei and somehow St. Tyrion is still their personal POV, I guess.  Not like crazy teenage shippers, no, that's not what I mean.  Well, in a joking manner I do, but not really. 

Yes, your idea on what to do with Show Cersei and Euron could have been interesting.  One of the main reasons we could not have anything resembling Book Euron is because putting him with Cersei would mean.......sidelining their Cersei at best, or if done in true character, he'd probably kill her if he didn't find a real use for her.  Heaven knows their Cersei is not amusing, so that wouldn't have saved her life, either, LOL

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2 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

I don't think they 'ship' Tyrion and Cersei, I just think they intellectually think they are the best 'pairing' in some ways, maybe in a more emotional way.  It may have a lot to do with how their Cersei is different than book Cersei and somehow St. Tyrion is still their personal POV, I guess.  Not like crazy teenage shippers, no, that's not what I mean.  Well, in a joking manner I do, but not really. 

Yes, your idea on what to do with Show Cersei and Euron could have been interesting.  One of the main reasons we could not have anything resembling Book Euron is because putting him with Cersei would mean.......sidelining their Cersei at best, or if done in true character, he'd probably kill her if he didn't find a real use for her.  Heaven knows their Cersei is not amusing, so that wouldn't have saved her life, either, LOL

I thought for a second they might go there when they had Tyrion blabbing about her pregnancy in front of Euron, where that would have given Lena a scene with dialogue and been a reason why Euron existed on the show.  But, of course, they didn't.  Stoic, no line Cersei to the very last, and then dies like a coward, when we already saw that she would never let  herself be taken captive and should have had fucking poison on her at the start.

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On 5/13/2019 at 7:34 AM, kissdbyfire said:

Can someone explain to me how on earth no one else died screaming when Drogon roasted Varys? They should have all died, Dany included. 

I was thinking killing Varys, a high-level rogue/bureaucrat, must have given Drogon enough experience points to level-up and he chose the new skill of "incendiary fire" (i.e. whatever his fire touches immediately explodes).:P

On 5/13/2019 at 12:08 PM, Free Northman Reborn said:

Yep. Drogon got upgraded to breathing photon torpedoes in episode 5.

HA!  Yes, either that or they got Drogon confused with Godzilla!:P

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