Jump to content
Corvinus

Rant & Rave without Repercussion: Burn It All Edition

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

This isn't bittersweet.

This has the makings of a tragedy.

I would be okay if they were going for a King Lear or a Hamlet vibe. But no, this is poorly conceived and haphazardly written. The special effects are nice but LOL at the fact that it took them two years to plot this out. I feel so cheated.

If John ends up on the throne then, yes, it will be bittersweet. When you have Ned Stark raise a Targaryen--you get the wheel shattering monarch Daeny wanted to, but never could be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Forlong the Fat said:

Dany could have burned the city while executing a military strategy. She could have even been mistaken in some way, or tricked, and then burned a bunch of non combatants. Jon could even have misperceived her as doing that, when in fact she was tricked or forced into doing something horrible.  Instead, we have her quire deliberately burning peasants. I think her waging a brutal war would have been consistent. Her mistakenly killing a bunch of people would have been consistent. That isn’t what she did.

Spot on.

We could have had the same plot with Dany going Fire & Blood on what she thinks are Lannister soldiers (who may even have surrendered, but she can't see that). The city could still be sacked by Dothraki and Northmen (they ain't angels you know, remember the Karstark men in the books ravaging in the Riverlands after their Lord was executed by Robb), because (sadly) this what happened in the middle ages, even by armies led by some relatively more popular historical figures (subsequent propaganda making sure their enemies sacks gained more notoriety than their own).

In this scenario - and you could have caches of wildfire being set off with much more effect than what we had - Dany would have at worst been  a Tywin, but not batshit. This can still allow whatever the plot is here to go ahead without completely ruining Dany - she's only doing what Olenna advised her at the start of last season. Yeah, she's no different from other rulers of the past, but that's the Game. This is exactly how Robert got his backside on the throne as well - after Tywin sacked KL for him.

We did not need the repeat strafings of the small folk. COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.

Could have at least used some flashbacks or voice-overs to try to tell us what's going through the characters' minds. It's a well known technique, you know?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The funny thing about this episode is that Dany did what every other 'successful' medieval military leader, Lord or King has done in real-world history; destroyed and/ or conquered their enemies and burned and pillaged thousands of innocent people along the way. An aerial chevauchee of sorts.

But of course, that's not what we were sold on with Dany from the start, and I'm pissed. They're on their way to making her whole arc a red-herring too, just like Bran's, the WWs and even Cersei's (ala dumping the whole woods-witch prophecy).

If this is where GRRM is really going with her too, then his books will be burned, and his entire work will become a cautionary tale of what happens when too many literary conventions are turned on their respective heads.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, Danelle said:

Perhaps our girl is pregnant. You know part of the whole bittersweet ending.

Brienne, a knight, being saddled with a baby out of wedlock in Westeros is not the least bit sweet!!! I'm not exclaiming at you, but at the show/story because I am convinced that there will be nothing actually sweet coming but they might think it is. Brienne being pregnant and alone with a Lannister bastard is exactly that kind of thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

If John ends up on the throne then, yes, it will be bittersweet. When you have Ned Stark raise a Targaryen--you get the wheel shattering monarch Daeny wanted to, but never could be.

No, again, not sweet! Jon desperately does not want the throne, he's seen nothing but pain from it. He's seen it destroy his relationship with the woman he loved in part because she thought he was going to end up there. Ending up on the throne is a punishment for him. And he is a Targaryen in nothing but name, which shatters no wheels, because since he does not want to rule he will be manipulated by everyone around him in Kings Landing. He is not equipped to break the wheel because he can't read people even a little bit, and it's all politics as a monarch, very little warfighting (which is what he's good at).

His only two leadership positions: killed in mutiny, happily abdicated

Edited by theladyinspring

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, theladyinspring said:

No, again, not sweet! Jon desperately does not want the throne, he's seen nothing but pain from it. He's seen it destroy his relationship with the woman he loved in part because she thought he was going to end up there. Ending up on the throne is a punishment for him. And he is a Targaryen in nothing but name, which shatters no wheels, because since he does not want to rule he will be manipulated by everyone around him in Kings Landing. He is not equipped to break the wheel because he can't read people even a little bit, and it's all politics as a monarch, very little warfighting (which is what he's good at).

Yes, again.

It'd be bitter for Jon, and Daeny. Agreed. But it would be sweet for the people of Westeros because they'd have a monarch guaranteed to not blow shit up or burn it down. Sweet for the future of the country and its children. In Jon Targaryen they would get a monarch who'd change the structure of the government with the help of Tyrion to make it a more just and fair society. So, totes sweet for the Westerosi.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Oh boy oh boy oh boy. I am so glad this episode turned out to be the horrific character assassinating dumpster fire it turned out to be.

I wonder, are D&D feeling safe in their careers right now? Are they still under the impression that 'Creatively, it made sense because we wanted it to happen' is a deep insight into the creative process?

After all this shit, I'm amazed they thought this shit subverts expectations. Spoiler: It doesn't. After episode four, everyone was expecting you to force Daenerys to be a mad queen. Everyone was expecting you to throw away years of character development for Jaime. Everyone expected you to be mean spirited and depict the northerners as insubordinate moronic rapists.

In other words, D&D, everyone expects you to fail now. You are unhirable from this point onwards. By phoning in GoT and mocking well-intentioned critics, blaming everyone but yourselves, you're going to fuck up all those future projects you were so looking forward to.

Even if execs don't give a fuck about good writing, they do care about public perception, and newsflash, D&D, if you're reading this, everyone fucking hates you.

I hope this series is remembered as it deserves to be; a bastion of potential completely ruined by greed, cynicism and apathy.

Edited by Beardy the Wildling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That fucking sad music playing while poor Cersei and Jaime realized they were stuck annoyed me the most out of anything for some reason. So cheap and corny.

Euron somehow surviving, and washing up on shore EXACTLY when and where Jaime is completing his character destruction. Smh. Also, who knew that getting hilt stabbed twice with a 18-inch dagger isn’t that bad(besides Arya)?

You think that Sandor could’ve had that revenge convo with Arya before then, eh? Considering that was exactly the point of their month/2 day trip. How they got into KL was beyond obnoxious too.

So Sansa’s LF-type tactic last episode pays off in spades. His corpse is smiling somewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Yes, again.

It'd be bitter for Jon, and Daeny. Agreed. But it would be sweet for the people of Westeros because they'd have a monarch guaranteed to not blow shit up or burn it down. Sweet for the future of the country and its children. In Jon Targaryen they would get a monarch who'd change the structure of the government with the help of Tyrion to make it a more just and fair society. So, totes sweet for the Westerosi.

No, he's a bad leader and would not be ruler for very long once everyone around him starts manipulating him to their ends. Unless the nobility has been completely done away with then the game of thrones will continue under this scenario. That's not sweet, you win or you die!

And when has he changed structure while governing? When has he been anything other than reactionary? If there's not an immediate violent threat he has nothing to do. 

Jon is dull as dirt but he's a great brother on the battlefield and has a good stoic northern character, that's why they like him. Why would the Dornish? Why would the Ironborn (no love lost for Starks there)? Why would any Southerner like him? Are we just assuming he wouldn't have to do any work and everyone would just love him because he's such a good man? Didn't work with the Night's Watch. This is Westeros. 

Edited by theladyinspring

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What the fuck, man? What even happened this episode? It was a cotton candy fluff montage of cool CGI moments.

Who the fuck did Arya tell she was going to kill Cersei? I don't even know if he was a Lannister or Targ man and the guy just stutters and tries to get his manager? 

I will say though, that Arya's dust covered, blood-caked blood is going to be a huge cosplay / halloween favorite. That makeup was kind of amazing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, theladyinspring said:

No, he's a bad leader and would not be ruler for very long once everyone around him starts manipulating him to their ends. Unless the nobility has been completely done away with then the game of thrones will continue under this scenario. That's not sweet, you win or you die!

And when has he changed structure while governing? When has he been anything other than reactionary? If there's not an immediate violent threat he has nothing to do. 

Jon is dull as dirt but he's a great brother on the battlefield and has a good stoic northern character, that's why they like him. Why would the Dornish? Why would the Ironborn (no love lost for Starks there)? Why would any Southerner like him? Are we just assuming he wouldn't have to do any work and everyone would just love him because he's such a good man? Didn't work with the Night's Watch. This is Westeros. 

Varys seemed to think he'd be pretty good at ruling. He can inspire men and is noble to a fault. Probably Sansa would be his hand and not Tyrion. KL is burned, so he could move the seat of power to Storm's End or somewhere else. Eh. I'm Team Jon. So we'll just have to agree to disagree on bittersweet being Jon taking rule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

I don't even know if he was a Lannister or Targ man and the guy just stutters and tries to get his manager? 

They were clearly making their way through Jon's Northern army's line. The Lannisters were inside the city walls.

 

More to the point, how did all those Dothraki's get back from their Charge of the Light Brigade at Winterfell?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, PetyrPunkinhead said:

Varys seemed to think he'd be pretty good at ruling. He can inspire men and is noble to a fault. Probably Sansa would be his hand and not Tyrion. KL is burned, so he could move the seat of power to Storm's End or somewhere else. Eh. I'm Team Jon. So we'll just have to agree to disagree on bittersweet being Jon taking rule.

There's nothing left in KL to rule over. There's no 'sweet' conclusion to who occupies the Iron Throne. I think the point here is that the Living turned out to be no better than the Dead. Actually, I don't think there is any satisfying 'sweet' side to a bittersweet ending.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

Apparently, it is a wonder they even made it out of elementary school with reading comprehension like that.

Didn't you know? The reason David Benioff has such contempt for themes and their presence in eighth grade book reports is because he never made it to the eighth grade!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the clarification on the Arya sitch, I honestly wasn't paying enough attention because the show couldn't hold it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A total fucking travesty! They ruined Dany and again left Jon looking like a impotent nothing; and Cersei what of her arc? we should pity her? I defy and show appologist to stick up for this nonsense. How the fuck are the ringing of bells going to trigger such violence in Dany? Was there foreshadowing - her father went man over years not in a afternoon. I feel so aggreived right now all the time I invested in this show to be rewarded with this bilge.

If this is how it ends then George don't bother finishing those books.

I am so full of hate for Dickhead & Dickhead right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone tell me why Arya survived this episode instead of dying in Jon’s arms at the end?

At least her death would’ve helped generate some excitement for next week’s episode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I believed the Mad Queen Dany theory from Day 1. It was almost too obvious that it was gonna happen if you read and rewatch looking for the signs. No one believed me which is awesome because a lot of people owe me money tomorrow. All Season it was obvious that she has been mad. The bells didn't make her go mad. Jorah dying didn't make her go mad. Missendei dying did not make her go mad. Being born a Targaryen made her mad. She always cared about power more than the people. The only time she acted like she cared about the people was when they were worshipping her and doing exactly as she said and helping her get more power. I love that everyone sees it now and I can't wait for the hundreds of articles that will come out in the next few days that will point out all of the hints and foreshadowing for her to go crazy. More people would have realized that she was completely bonkers a lot sooner if she hadn't had such an amazing advisors in Tyrion and Varys. I knew she was going to be the final big bad. I didn't know we were going to kill the army of the dead so easily and then have her kill way more people than the army of the Dead. I wonder how many people following her regret that decision. I knew she didn't care about those people at all when she called it Jon's War.  if those are your people and you were the ruler of the Seven Kingdoms it is your War.

Speaking of Jon however. When he was looking around at the damage and destruction I screamed at the screen this is your fault too. I think Varys stopped whispering on purpose. He knew Danny would kill him and thought Jon watching him die would make him realize that she's not a good ruler. Jon clearly knew something was up with Dany. I honestly think (hope)  that the secret he asked Sansa and Arya to keep wasn't about him being a secret Targ (Bran told them that) I think he told them that he agreed with them and they needed to keep an eye on Dany to protect Sansa so he needed to keep pretending like he was super loyal until they came up with a plan. I'm more mad at Jon for not stopping her when she was clearly crazy than almost anything that happened in this episode. I still don't understand why most people didn't see her crazy coming a mile away. I get it I didn't want to believe it at first but just because somebody hatches dragons and is kind of magical doesn't mean they'll make a good ruler. She was a great conqueror but that does not make a good ruler and history has shown that.

What comes in a close second is the death of Cersei and Jamies redemption arc not being about redemption. Sometimes crappy people do good things but they're still crappy people and I think that's the point of his arc. I'm just mad at myself for rooting for a guy that pushed a kid out of window.

Seriously someone couldn't have stopped her beforehand. The soldiers could have been like woah this has gone too far and started helping children out of the city. I guess this is why they killed rhaegal because another Dance of the Dragons would have been way too cool and we already got a dragon fight this season. Seriously where are the hidden dragons?  I mean I guess Arya was at least trying to help people get out of the city for all the good it did.

 I did agree with the Arya running around the city part.  I thought she was going to die and Jon was going to find her. I get that having a character we all know makes the scene matter just a little bit more. I don't know what was up with the musical score though.

Edited by For Highgarden
clarity

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×