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Jace, Basilissa

U.S. Politics: Dirt From Ukrainians, Bombs for Iranians, Shut Down Your Brainiums...

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Look, I think the Biden thing is bullshit. I also don't care to debate it and am happy to concede that sure, he's a  bad man - investigate him and see where that gets you. It's literally not pertinent to the impeachment process and costs me nothing to cede so that I can get back to jumping up and down on Trump's bloated political corpse.

eta: I may be getting ahead of myself here about Trump's demise, but let me enjoy the moment.

Edited by Gertrude

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Interesting listening to the hearing.

Fox News and the right-wing outlets are never going to publish these remarks, but Maguire's words that he believed the whistleblower was acting in good faith, and that the Inspector-General found the whistleblower's complaints credible, are pretty damning for Trump. As well as the fact that Maguire obviously spoke to Trump about the complaint but tried to dodge it by saying (rightly, I guess) that his conversations with the President were privileged.

I just want to see Giuliani get excised at a hearing and see him call everyone morons.

 

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29 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

eta: I may be getting ahead of myself here about Trump's demise, but let me enjoy the moment.

I don’t see Republicans budging on this, they have already committed themselves fully to his defense so no matter how much more damning it gets they haven’t left themselves much wiggle room to distance themselves. They aren’t even admitting that there is a problem at this point, the idiots at this hearing are still crying “witch hunt”.

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30 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

bbbut!  Shokin was "investigating" Zlochevsky!  Clearly Biden and the Democrats are just as bad as Trump! 

Bruh, everyone knows that the best way to get a corruption investigation off of you is to pressure the guy who is being accused of not investigation corruption enough.  

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12 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

I don’t see Republicans budging on this, they have already committed themselves fully to his defense so no matter how much more damning it gets they haven’t left themselves much wiggle room to distance themselves. They aren’t even admitting that there is a problem at this point, the idiots at this hearing are still crying “witch hunt”.

That's my fear, but I have hope that an actual investigation and testimony could crack it. At the very least, my hope is that this breaks through to fence sitters and depresses turn-out and he's gone in the election. At that point, I'd love to see the legal system pick his corpse clean. (or at least try, because we all know how power and money shield). Like I said - just let me have today, ok?

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I read the Report -- at least what the public is allowed to see.  What struck me is how much the author(s)'s  alarm comes through the very carefully worded, organized and structured document's officialize.

Due to circumstances haven't been able to watch the Maguire testimony -- but lordessa, shades of the Kavanaugh hearings: hearing Nunes telling Maguire, "Watch what you say."

As well, what is with the NY Times these days?  They claimed to have interviewed some 'swing voters' to learn their opinion of all this. But these were dyed in the wool trumpers, who they had interviewed before, so these so-called swing voters are put out there as utterly antagonistic to impeachment and moreover utterly convinced of the greatness of the bedbug.

Edited by Zorral

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34 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

That's my fear, but I have hope that an actual investigation and testimony could crack it. At the very least, my hope is that this breaks through to fence sitters and depresses turn-out and he's gone in the election. At that point, I'd love to see the legal system pick his corpse clean. (or at least try, because we all know how power and money shield). Like I said - just let me have today, ok?

Yes, if the rest of the country that isn't racist garbage that thinks Trump was sent by God wakes up and actually realizes what he did, public will go against him and that's all the GOP Senators need to 180. The Dems need to push the story and explain it as clearly as possible over and over and maybe it will sink in, but still a tall order. It may be enough to get a conviction but at least a Trump defeat in 2020.

But, please take today, I'm singing to myself, na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye! even if it's not a done thing by far, I'm just wishful thinking it today.

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The Democrats are hostile to Maguire because they are angry he did not turn over the whistleblower report as required under the statute. The Republicans are coddling him because they see him as having tried to protect Trump. I'd say the Republican most wary of Maguire potentially being a loose cannon so far was Nunes. Nunes was on the edge of getting testy with him, and as Zorral pointed out, even said "Watch what you say". His pretence was he was warning him his words would get twisted, but it wasn't hard to see a veiled warning there.

But going back to the lengthy back and forth about the US military, and the absolutely ridiculous comment that the US military are not political, Maguire's testimony just blows that ridiculous comment out of the water. Admiral Maguire is a profoundly political animal, even if he claims not to be. As he kept repeating over and over, he has 'a lot of life experience'. Yup, he's been around the block 20 or 30 or 200 or 300 times. He took one look at that whistleblower complaint and said to himself, holy f*****g shit, what do I do now.

I have absolutely no doubt that Maguire would not have submitted the complaint based on the fact that Trump was not a member of the intelligence community and the statute refers to complaints about actions by the intelligence community. The real hero is the Inspector General.

And OMG, Republicans! Eff off with the outrage about accusations Maguire "committed a crime" and fie on the attacks on "his integrity". That's so rich coming from the same party that attacks critics of Trump as traitors, spies, cowards, liars and on and on and on and on. 

Edited by Fragile Bird

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1 hour ago, Morpheus said:

I don’t see Republicans budging on this, they have already committed themselves fully to his defense so no matter how much more damning it gets they haven’t left themselves much wiggle room to distance themselves. They aren’t even admitting that there is a problem at this point, the idiots at this hearing are still crying “witch hunt”.

The remaining Republican politicians will not drop Trump until the base does.  They are completly beholden to him at this point.  Anyone who isn't has retired or is retiring before 2020.   No one on that side of the aisle will stand up to him.  Its not the Grand Old Party anymore, its the Trump Suckup Party.

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What a rube. He admitted he went to the people who needed to be investigated and said. “Hey, what do you want to do about this?” And when they said back “Do nothing,” knowing that they were actively accused of covering it up, he did nothing. You can’t use 36 years of military experience to hide that gross negligence.

Also, not low key, he all but admitted he talked to Trump about this issue.

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4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

What a rube. He admitted he went to the people who needed to be investigated and said. “Hey, what do you want to do about this?” And when they said back “Do nothing,” knowing that they were actively accused of covering it up, he did nothing. You can’t use 36 years of military experience to hide that gross negligence.

Also, not low key, he all but admitted he talked to Trump about this issue.

I felt sorry for him early on, thinking that he was new to the job and not a bad guy, just in over his head. After that, though, I changed my mind. 

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Yeah, I was sympathetic to him at first too. Inherited a no-win situation without precedence. However, he done fucked up. If he didn't refer it to someone (i.e. congress), how is he not complicit in the cover-up? I don't think he's a bad guy, he just really didn't make the right call.

Edited by Gertrude

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9 minutes ago, Gertrude said:

Yeah, I was sympathetic to him at first too. Inherited a no-win situation without precedence. However, he done fucked up. If he didn't refer it to someone (i.e. congress), how is he not complicit in the cover-up? I don't think he's a bad guy, he just really didn't make the right call.

That was my impression, too. But anyone who has worked with whistleblowers anywhere knows you don't go to the subject of the complaint. It's supposed to be confidential. 

And he may well go to jail for it. 

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1 minute ago, Matrim Fox Cauthon said:

Who knows, maybe he will get a plea deal or a pass for this for continued Congressional compliance. 

Yeah, maybe a John Dean-like 4 month sentence or something. 

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So here's an interesting and scary prospect.  Where would we be if the Democrats hadn't retaken the House?  Would we ever even hear about this?  Presumably the contacts with Sen. Murphy would still be happening (maybe), but is there anything he or Schumer or Pelosi could do?  As bad as Barr is, he would be like 10X worse if the Democrats didn't have some congressional power to push back. 

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11 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

So here's an interesting and scary prospect.  Where would we be if the Democrats hadn't retaken the House?  Would we ever even hear about this?  Presumably the contacts with Sen. Murphy would still be happening (maybe), but is there anything he or Schumer or Pelosi could do?  As bad as Barr is, he would be like 10X worse if the Democrats didn't have some congressional power to push back. 

Devin Nunes probabaly would have buried the whistleblower in a hole on his farm.

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2 hours ago, Bonnot OG said:
This entire thread is wild. NYT is shady as hell.

 

https://www.alternet.org/2019/09/the-new-york-times-published-a-story-alleging-moderate-swing-voters-are-repelled-by-impeachment-turns-out-they-really-interviewed-republicans/

 

Quote

This week, Sabrina Tavernise and other New York Times reporters have been focusing on swing voters and the issues that could sway them either for or against President Donald Trump in the 2020 election — including an impeachment inquiry in response to the Ukraine scandal. Tavernise, on Twitter, posted, “I talked with six swing voters today. Impeachment repelled every one of them. This could cost Dems at polls.” But pollster Matt McDermott responded that the voters Tavernise was referring to weren’t really swing voters, but committed conservatives or strong Trump supporters.

In the meantime, I'm listening to an NPR Fresh Air interview with Tom LoBianco, author of a book on Pence and his trajectory of betraying his religious principles in favor of political power -- many reasons but mostly because he wants to be potus in his own right.

https://www.barnesandnoble.com/p/piety-power-tom-lobianco/1128860602/2662335046566?

 

Edited by Zorral

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