Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker, a new thread arises

[Gaston de Foix]

23 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Btw, IMO this is not entirely the right way to watch Star Wars. I prefer if people start with the Original Trilogy, because the OT does a simple and effective job at introducing you to the universe, and I find it interesting how things are tied or not so tied together with the prequels.

Btw Corvinus, when you say the OT does a simple and effective job based on the first five minutes of a New Hope (which I started on the basis of your advice online), it starts in media res with all this stuff about plans.  That's why I went back to the beginning.  Does the introduction start after the big action scene?

[Argonath Diver]

I would have also recommended to start with the OT, but since you dove in this way, no worries. 

Solo is next chronologically, but I strongly suggest watching it after. Perhaps a bigger fan of the movie would have a different opinion - I am probably too biased against that film to be fair about its viewing order, as mine would be "skip it entirely". I am not sure if its constant callbacks to the OT will resonate with a new viewer. 

Indeed, ep 4 starts in medias res. Rogue One details important events immediately before that chase scene, and (again my opinion, likely others may disagree) I think it works as a terrific segue to the OT. Ive watched Ep 4 with it as a back to back several times. Again, I'm likely biased, as it is by a vast distance my favorite non-OT film.

[Corvinus85]

19 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Btw Corvinus, when you say the OT does a simple and effective job based on the first five minutes of a New Hope (which I started on the basis of your advice online), it starts in media res with all this stuff about plans.  That's why I went back to the beginning.  Does the introduction start after the big action scene?

Well there's the fact that there is this Galactic Empire and there is a rebellion against it. It goes heavy on the action at first, then it slows down a bit.

On the other hand, The Phantom Menace starts with trade route disputes, the blockade of a planet, and two Jedi sent to negotiate the matter. I would say the former is more straightforward.

[Gaston de Foix]

After two and a half movies of mostly indifferent cinema the conversation between Palpatine and Anakin redeems everything.  A powerful meditation on the lure of power and the fear of loss and death.  

[Gaston de Foix]

Now the lightning comes.  But why the casual swipe at judicial independence? For shame. 

Update:  Anakin casually ignoring that Palpatine doesn't actually know how to save an individual from death and still pledging himself on a best efforts promise.  Get it in writing Anakin! 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

16 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

So I've started watching the Star Wars movies for the first time in my life.  I decided it to watch in order of occurrence in the story: i.e., the Phantom Menace first followed by the Clone Wars.  I'm at the beginning of the Revenge of the Sith and I'm mystified by the opening statement there are "heroes on both sides" of the war.  Any insights that don't spoil the story to come?  

I know this is old, but you should listen to the "Newcomers" podcast. Lauren Lapkus and Nicole Byer sat down and watched Star Wars and everything in the series for the first time. It was really funny.

For the most part, they watched the movies in order that they were made, and I'd say that's the best way to go, though I think you've gone a different route. Either way, "heroes on both sides,"...who knew George Lucas was writing speeches for Trump?

[RumHam]

For what it's worth the "heroes on both sides" thing is kInda addressed in an episode or arc on The Clone Wars. I don't remember the details but I think Padme (or maybe Ahsoka?) befriends a separatist dude and he gets to lay out his arguments for why the republic is terrible. 

I'm probably forgetting some terrible stuff they did, but I dunno that the separatists are all that evil. They're being manipulated just like the republic, and it ends terribly for all of their leaders and the bug people on Geonosis(?) At least they're not as evil as the empire is. 

 

 

[Gaston de Foix]

Further Further Update: I'm here for the old fashioned values of the Star Wars Universe.  Darth Sidious deciding to personally fight Yoda despite now wielding supreme political power.   It's as if Sauron and Aragorn decided the fate of Gondor through an arm-wrestle. 

[Leofric]

1 hour ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Further Further Update: I'm here for the old fashioned values of the Star Wars Universe.  Darth Sidious deciding to personally fight Yoda despite now wielding supreme political power.   It's as if Sauron and Aragorn decided the fate of Gondor through an arm-wrestle. 

Well, Darth Sidious did try to assassinate Yoda first using an entire clone army, but Yoda survived that with a little help from the Wookies.  So Sidious may have just decided, if you want something done right, do it yourself.

[Gaston de Foix]

3 minutes ago, Leofric said:

Well, Darth Sidious did try to assassinate Yoda first using an entire clone army, but Yoda survived that with a little help from the Wookies.  So Sidious may have just decided, if you want something done right, do it yourself.

Fair.  I will say Lord Sidious seems to be much more compassionate towards Anakin from the start than the Jedi were.  It's as if Harry ended every novel with a chat in Voldemort's office while Dumbledore kept chastising him for his infractions.  The relationship between Palpatine and Anakin is extremely well done. 

And for Obi-wan to leave the chosen one to die on the slopes of a volcano seems kinda self-defeating.  But who am I kidding? It's a great story.  

[Corvinus85]

24 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Fair.  I will say Lord Sidious seems to be much more compassionate towards Anakin from the start than the Jedi were.  It's as if Harry ended every novel with a chat in Voldemort's office while Dumbledore kept chastising him for his infractions.  The relationship between Palpatine and Anakin is extremely well done. 

And for Obi-wan to leave the chosen one to die on the slopes of a volcano seems kinda self-defeating.  But who am I kidding? It's a great story.  

Did you pay attention to the story Palpatine tells Anakin about Darth Plageuis the Wise?

[Gaston de Foix]

2 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Did you pay attention to the story Palpatine tells Anakin about Darth Plageuis the Wise?

Yes.  My point wasn't that it was a healthy relationship, per se.  It was just that you can see his quasi-paternal manipulation really paid dividends for him as a strategic matter.  And the Jedi (with the possible exception of Obi Wan Kenobi) mishandled the "chosen one" throughout.  Did I miss something important tho?

[Corvinus85]

58 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Yes.  My point wasn't that it was a healthy relationship, per se.  It was just that you can see his quasi-paternal manipulation really paid dividends for him as a strategic matter.  And the Jedi (with the possible exception of Obi Wan Kenobi) mishandled the "chosen one" throughout.  Did I miss something important tho?

From the Phantom Menace he says that Anakin's development will be watched with great interest. 

Palps says that Darth Plagueis could influence the midichlorians to create life. In TPM, Shmi Skywalker tells Qui-Gon that Anakin doesn't have a biological father. Anakin is a case of immaculate conception. So one can draw a grim conclusion as to how Anakin came to be. While I don't believe it's been fully canonized, the main theory is that Plagueis was Sidious's master, and either one of them could have been responsible for Anakin's birth.

[Gaston de Foix]

4 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

From the Phantom Menace he says that Anakin's development will be watched with great interest. 

Palps says that Darth Plagueis could influence the midichlorians to create life. In TPM, Shmi Skywalker tells Qui-Gon that Anakin doesn't have a biological father. Anakin is a case of immaculate conception. So one can draw a grim conclusion as to how Anakin came to be. While I don't believe it's been fully canonized, the main theory is that Plagueis was Sidious's master, and either one of them could have been responsible for Anakin's birth.

I see.  Interesting.  But even on the assumption that Sidious was Plagueis' apprentice he claims not to know what Plagueis knew about staving off death.  Maybe he doesn't know how to create life either? Seems like Plagueis was the true innovator but didn't have Sidious' ruthlessness. 

[Darth Richard II]

It's been retconned and changed like 6 or 7 times. I think and heck ill spoiler tag in case this is mostly Old EU and some of the newer comics

Spoiler

Originally, Lucas had Sidious reveal in Sith that he caused Anakin's birth, then it was retconned in a novel that Plagueis did some dark force ritual that cause the light side to cause anakin to be born in response cause of some balance shit, then they changed it again so it was just Plagueis, then recently Vader did some time travel stuff in the new comics were he sees Sidious using the force to impregnate his mom, then they retconned that and said it was just a dream/vision, so at the moment, no one is quite sure, though they may have changed it AGAIN.

 

[Gaston de Foix]

Watching Rogue One as recommended.  Excellent.  Q: why are there no female Jedis?

[Corvinus85]

8 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Watching Rogue One as recommended.  Excellent.  Q: why are there no female Jedis?

There are quite a few female Jedi in the prequels, though not that many human ones. I can only think of one.

[Nictarion]

26 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

There are quite a few female Jedi in the prequels, though not that many human ones. I can only think of one.

There’s the Asian one (Bultar Swan), and the girl with the weird hair (Sarrisa Jeng) that were both part of the rescue in AotC.

Also, there’s the old woman at the temple (Jocasta Nu) that says a system can’t exist if it’s not in their records. 

Yes, I had to look up the names...

[felice]

3 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

I see.  Interesting.  But even on the assumption that Sidious was Plagueis' apprentice he claims not to know what Plagueis knew about staving off death.

He says both that Plagueis taught his apprentice everything he knew, and only one person ever achieved that power, so he's definitely misleading Anakin. Palpatine has no reason to actually help save Padme, and I think it's safe to assume that the only person Plagueis cared about was himself. Since Plagueis clearly didn't have the power to avoid his own death even if he had the knowledge, Palpatine could be referring to himself as the only one with the power.

[Darth Richard II]

I always thought it was pretty clear Plagious was the one with the power to control life and that Palpatine killed him in his sleep. It's not really ambiguous.