US Politics: Birthing Again

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Martell Spy said:

Cardi B wants AOC to run for president. She didn't say no

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/16/politics/cardi-b-aoc-endorsement-trnd/index.html

 

I've never understood the popularity of Cardi B. She's got one really good hit and then the rest of her catalog is pretty forgettable. But then again hip-hop is kind of dead these days anyways.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

56 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

I agree, 2024 seems next to impossible (unless Trump pulls out another comeback). I think AOC should I wait, to be honest. I'm super excited for her and don't want her to run and get shut down early in the primary. I think she offers a real shot at picking up and leading the social Democrat movement.

No 35 year old is ready to become president. The idea that a first term member on Congress in their early 30's should even be considered for the position is a joke. 

[Martell Spy]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

No 35 year old is ready to become president. The idea that a first term member on Congress in their early 30's should even be considered for the position is a joke. 

Why was it set at 35 years old, then? Also, if it was 2024 she would not be a first term member.

[DMC]

21 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Why was it set at 35 years old, then?

To ensure Ned Stark would be eligible.

[A True Kaniggit]

 

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

No 35 year old is ready to become president.

Fuck it. Make the age 18.

[Martell Spy]

57 minutes ago, DMC said:

To ensure Ned Stark would be eligible.

What good is a President that just dies? Like that fucker Kennedy.

[A True Kaniggit]

11 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

What good is a President that just dies? Like that fucker Kennedy.

"He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured"

-Donald Trump, President of the United States of America. AKA Cadet Bonespurs.

[GrimTuesday]

1 minute ago, A True Kaniggit said:

"He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured"

-Donald Trump, President of the United States of America. 

To be fair John McCain was a truly great ally of the North Vietnamese considering he brought down 6 American aircraft by himself.

[Gorn]

4 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

No 35 year old is ready to become president. The idea that a first term member on Congress in their early 30's should even be considered for the position is a joke. 

Yeah, why should we consider people in their mental and physical prime for the position? It's not like we have recent examples of successful US presidents who entered office in their 40s. Or current leaders of major world powers who entered office in their 30s (Macron). Or historical examples of successful leaders who rose to top rank at similar or younger age (William Pitt the Younger, Napoleon, Augustus, Catherine the Great...).

Gerontocracy ftw!

[Fragile Bird]

Peter Navarro on CNBC

“The Democrats have formed a coalition with the Chinese to try to get Trump out of office.

What you’re going to hear all week at the Democratic convention is that Donald Trump is to blame for this terrible virus. The only president responsible for more than 160,000 deaths in the US is the unelected president of China.”

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 hours ago, Gorn said:

Yeah, why should we consider people in their mental and physical prime for the position? It's not like we have recent examples of successful US presidents who entered office in their 40s. Or current leaders of major world powers who entered office in their 30s (Macron). Or historical examples of successful leaders who rose to top rank at similar or younger age (William Pitt the Younger, Napoleon, Augustus, Catherine the Great...).

Gerontocracy ftw!

Isn't Macron rather unpopular these days?

Point is, someone that young, regardless of who they are, is probably not ready to be handed the hardest job in the world. Mayor Pete is in his late 30's. Why should he have become president when he's struggled at times to run a relatively small city?

[Gorn]

27 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Isn't Macron rather unpopular these days?

Point is, someone that young, regardless of who they are, is probably not ready to be handed the hardest job in the world. Mayor Pete is in his late 30's. Why should he have become president when he's struggled at times to run a relatively small city?

No-one of any age is "ready" to be a US president, and pretty much everyone has to learn on the job to one extent or another, and also to rely on advisers. Vice-presidents and large-state governors probably have the most relevant experience, but it's still not the same thing.

In addition to Macron, Austria, New Zealand and Finland are also led by young politicians.

My point is that exceptional leaders are super-rare to begin with, and there's no point in setting up additional arbitrary obstacles in their path. At some point, capacity of learning new things and keeping up with the world around you becomes more important than whatever previous experience one has accumulated. Remember McCain not knowing how to use a PC in 2008? Don't you think that would have been an important skill to someone potentially in charge of, I don't know, net neutrality policy or cyberwarfare?

And 2008 McCain seems positively youthful compared to present candidates.

[Rippounet]

40 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Isn't Macron rather unpopular these days ? 

He was never popular in the first place  (he only got about 20% of the votes and then won because most people still don't want fascism). The media was just very good at pretending otherwise.

None of this has anything to do with his age though. His neo-liberal policies are shit, 'tis all.

[Larry of the Lawn]

59 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Isn't Macron rather unpopular these days?

Point is, someone that young, regardless of who they are, is probably not ready to be handed the hardest job in the world. Mayor Pete is in his late 30's. Why should he have become president when he's struggled at times to run a relatively small city?

This is built on fallacious premises.  Why do you get to just cherrypick one person you feel isn't ready to be president in that age group and then say everyone else is [also not ready?].  Your issue with him isn't even his age, it's that he struggled to run a small city. 

Same goes for pointing out that Macron is unpopular.  There are plenty of unpopular older elected statesmen.  I don't think AOC would do any worse than most of the chumps who have been US President.

Maybe you should lobby to change the minimum age for the president to 65.

[Maithanet]

IMO the best presidents were all between 47 (Obama) and 57 (Washington) when taking office.  The only really good president younger than Obama is T. Roosevelt, and while there's several pretty good presidents over 57, none that I would call great. 

However, that isn't as useful a metric as it sounds, since 25 of the 45 presidents elected were in their 50s, so there are plenty of bad presidents in that range too. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

The attack on Sen. Harris is worse than “Birtherism”.  It is an attack on the concept of birthright citizenship as established by the 14th Amendment citizenship clause and the 1898 case of US v. Wong that clearly held someone born to foreign nationals (who do not possess diplomatic immunity) inside the US is a citizen of the US based upon the location of their birth.

[S John]

3 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

The attack on Sen. Harris is worse than “Birtherism”.  It is an attack on the concept of birthright citizenship as established by the 14th Amendment citizenship clause and the 1898 case of US v. Wong that clearly held someone born to foreign nationals (who do not diplomatic immunity) inside the US is a citizen of the US based upon the location of their birth.

Trump admin. dismisses that decision as ‘the China case’.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

1 minute ago, S John said:

Trump admin. dismisses that decision as ‘the China case’.

Please tell me they haven’t actually done this?

[S John]

Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Please tell me they haven’t actually done this?

Lol no I was joking, but it is a sad commentary that it felt like a possibility.

[DMC]

29 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

It is an attack on the concept of birthright citizenship as established by the 14th Amendment citizenship clause and the 1898 case of US v. Wong that clearly held someone born to foreign nationals (who do not diplomatic immunity) inside the US is a citizen of the US based upon the location of their birth.

It was nice to hear Meadows concede with a simple "sure" yesterday morning that Harris was qualified to be VP.  Sure he'll be fired soon.

On the age requirement thing, I tend to agree with Ty - I wouldn't mind if the minimum was raised to, say, 40.  Not that I care too much or am going to make any futile effort to change it.  You can point to young leaders throughout the world - there have been a lot of them lately - but I don't really care about that comparison.  The US still has (by far) the largest economy in the world, the third largest population in the world, by far the best-funded and third largest military in the world, and a huge and complicated federal bureaucracy (not that most other industrialized democracies don't).  Due to federalism, navigating all the different governments within the US is also considerably more complicated than many other countries. 

Plus, of course, the life expectancy when they set the minimum was considerably lower than it is today (quick google says it was 38 for a white male in 1787).  Not to mention people (well, propertied men at least) were expected to grow up a lot quicker than they are today.  (Although, as an aside, it is quite remarkable the ages many of the founding fathers lived to - Franklin, Adams, Jefferson, Madison all must have been viewed as, like, Yoda-old for their day.)

Anyway, the most important reason is POTUS is a much more powerful office than any prime minister or even most other presidents throughout the world.  Managing those levers of power responsibly is considerably more difficult than almost any other head of government in an industrialized democracy.

When it comes to AOC, though, I don' t think it matters either way.  Win or lose, 2024 would not be an optimal time for her to run.  Harris is going to have a ton more institutional support than Biden had - much closer to Hillary in 2016 or Gore in 2000.  It would be much wiser to wait, probably til 2032 is when I'd target it if I was mapping out her 15 year plan.  Maybe if Harris loses in 2024 and the GOP president looks weak in 2028 she should take a shot then.