Fury Resurrected Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 13 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: What's the calculated risk of buying a brand new car while living paycheck to paycheck? Why are you ignoring the fact that being in a drastically different and worse financial situation after nearly an entire year of pandemic is not something that would be restricted to people living paycheck to paycheck? Why are you ignoring that during a health crisis a lot more people will be saddled with crippling medical debt of tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars if they were unlucky enough to have any of the weird severe post Covid complications? Why are you ignoring the fact that a lien makes most people with new cars unable to sell? It would be one thing if people were lining up a week into unemployment- but this is a year, and unless Congress acts, many of the hardest hit will lose their unemployment on the day after Christmas. why are you choosing this hill to die on? They’re lining up for food and you are being petty about their possessions. This is 100% exactly like the shit I’ve heard people say about people who are on food stamps but have an iPhone or are using them to buy food they don’t think is shitty enough. The fact remains that you have no idea why they are in the position they are in. You have no idea if they are in a car they even own. You just know you are judging others in their moment of need. I hope you’re better than that. We all need more kindness right now because it is a shitty time for everyone and the last thing we need is finger wagging at those who are suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fury Resurrected Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Another idiotic line of reasoning I've heard. I dont need it as I'm young and healthy but my xyz is vulnerable so they will get it so it's alright. Not realising that the vulnerable person still has a 1 in 10 chance of getting it, but if everyone they come into contact with has it, it becomes closer to 1 in 100. And also the vulnerable are also more likely not to be able to get the vaccine. With my lupus, if a flare up is bad enough my immune system may need to be suppressed in the future, which means I’d have no immunity to anything in that time. I’d need people I come in contact with to be vaccinated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 14 hours ago, Fury Resurrected said: Because you could when you bought it and a global fucking pandemic eliminated your job. If you have a loan you cannot sell your car at a loss unless you have the cash to pay the difference. That’s what a lien is. Your loan is guaranteed by the car. Therefore you can’t sell the car unless you can square the loan. This is happening to a lot of people and it’s very gross to see you parroting the right’s welfare queen bullshit. Also interest on new cars is like 2% and lower while some people get stuck paying like 8% on that $10,000 dollar car so the new car or leases are sometimes not much more expensive than buying the clunkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 6 minutes ago, Fury Resurrected said: And also the vulnerable are also more likely not to be able to get the vaccine. With my lupus, if a flare up is bad enough my immune system may need to be suppressed in the future, which means I’d have no immunity to anything in that time. I’d need people I come in contact with to be vaccinated. I suppose that really will let you know who your friends are. My dad has just recovered from cancer and his immune system is fucked, he can get the vaccine, but anyone around him choosing not to when as he is only 90% protected can fuck right off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 12 minutes ago, Fury Resurrected said: Why are you ignoring the fact that being in a drastically different and worse financial situation after nearly an entire year of pandemic is not something that would be restricted to people living paycheck to paycheck? Why are you ignoring that during a health crisis a lot more people will be saddled with crippling medical debt of tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars if they were unlucky enough to have any of the weird severe post Covid complications? Why are you ignoring the fact that a lien makes most people with new cars unable to sell? It would be one thing if people were lining up a week into unemployment- but this is a year, and unless Congress acts, many of the hardest hit will lose their unemployment on the day after Christmas. why are you choosing this hill to die on? They’re lining up for food and you are being petty about their possessions. This is 100% exactly like the shit I’ve heard people say about people who are on food stamps but have an iPhone or are using them to buy food they don’t think is shitty enough. The fact remains that you have no idea why they are in the position they are in. You have no idea if they are in a car they even own. You just know you are judging others in their moment of need. I hope you’re better than that. We all need more kindness right now because it is a shitty time for everyone and the last thing we need is finger wagging at those who are suffering. Kay, part of my job is helping people who can't afford their medical bills. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is dealing with people who can't pay their bills, but are spending crazy amounts of money on shit they don't need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 FFS, I've had some arguments on here when I was in the minority, but never when literally every other person was telling me I'm full of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 23 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: I suppose that really will let you know who your friends are. My dad has just recovered from cancer and his immune system is fucked, he can get the vaccine, but anyone around him choosing not to when as he is only 90% protected can fuck right off. Then there are our friends who rescued Mom / MIL from the luxury assisted living place in Alabama that was gaslighting her to get her apartment to then rent out at a much higher rate than her contract-lease. She's living with them here in Harlem, she's in her 90's, starting to have alzheimers, they are her caretakers. She qualifies, they don't -- yet they should because they are with her all the time, but have to get their groceries and so on, and so are exposed, though wearing masks, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 14 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: FFS, I've had some arguments on here when I was in the minority, but never when literally every other person was telling me I'm full of shit. Especially during this period of time in the U.S. when we have this bizarre view of Trump's daily inability to concede. How can one view that behavior and not want more than anything to not mimic it in all its insecurity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fury Resurrected Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 37 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Kay, part of my job is helping people who can't afford their medical bills. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is dealing with people who can't pay their bills, but are spending crazy amounts of money on shit they don't need? Just because you do something nice (for money) doesn’t mean that another thing you’re doing isn’t shitty. Your frustration is on you. You are the one choosing to insert your opinions on other people’s lives into the equation of whether or not they need help. If you weren’t doing that, your frustration ends. You do not know the circumstances of the people at the food shelf, and it’s none of your business. Poor people don’t owe you or anyone else an outward litmus test of their poverty before deserving help without your frustration. Food is a human right, if someone thinks they need it, I want them to have it. Their hunger matters more than your petty annoyance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said: Kay, part of my job is helping people who can't afford their medical bills. Do you have any idea how frustrating it is dealing with people who can't pay their bills, but are spending crazy amounts of money on shit they don't need? you [ know ]what people don't need? medical bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, Fury Resurrected said: Just because you do something nice (for money) doesn’t mean that another thing you’re doing isn’t shitty. Your frustration is on you. You are the one choosing to insert your opinions on other people’s lives into the equation of whether or not they need help. If you weren’t doing that, your frustration ends. You do not know the circumstances of the people at the food shelf, and it’s none of your business. Poor people don’t owe you or anyone else an outward litmus test of their poverty before deserving help without your frustration. Food is a human right, if someone thinks they need it, I want them to have it. Their hunger matters more than your petty annoyance. Clearly you're misunderstanding what I've been discussing. I don't judge the poor at all, and think by and large society has failed them. My frustration stems from people with means who are irresponsible, can't make ends meet and specifically take what was meant for those in need. I'm specifically trying to help those who are desperate. And yes it is frustrating to interact with a patient who is asking for help, but is totally unwilling to make any sacrifice when most of their problems can be solved by living a bit more within their means. And it's these same people who are the worst to interact with. Those who are really struggling are almost always very kind and grateful for what you're doing and in turn you want to fight for every penny of relief for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 1 hour ago, DireWolfSpirit said: Regarding changing lifestyles- I hope your not solely talking about citizen lifestyles. Let's not forget about businesses and their behavior. Anything that is asked of the population should also be required from govt, military, and corporate entities. These entities are already getting away with privatizing profits and trying to socialize losses. I'm pretty damn sure I and most ordinary citizens use less fuel than military or corporate jet setters. Put another way, cruises and sun belt vacations aren't going away anytime soon, fuel guzzling military toys aren't going away, corporate conventions aren't ending are they? But there's this constant drumbeat about how workers and commuters need to make more sacrifices and change where we live and what we drive. I'm not seeing any sort of shared responsibility from the 2%, once again it's more of the same mode of socialize losses/sacrifice and privatize profits/privileges. oh, I totally agree - especially for climate change the personal responsibility angle is a drop in the bucket compared to everything else. I do mean more generally - for climate change we need to look away from single family buildings, rethink transportation, aesthetics (solar and wind power as 'blight' or ruining my view). With healthcare some people might need to let go of the insurance plan they really like. But that stuff does eventually entail a lifestyle change, especially climate change--to actually get under control--we probably all do need to rethink the our diets, how we dispose of food, how we package (or don't package) things. I consider my self a tree hugger, but also recognize that some of things we need to do will probably be uncomfortable and annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: you what people don't need? medical bills Agreed. I'm trying to fight from the inside, Larry! Over the last few months I've saved hundreds of families $1,000 per helmet meant to deal with their infant's Plagiocephaly and called upper management out on their price gouging. But I'm some kind of villain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Agreed. I'm trying to fight from the inside, Larry! Over the last few months I've saved hundreds of families $1,000 per helmet meant to deal with their infant's Plagiocephaly and called upper management out on their price gouging. But I'm some kind of villain. I don't think you're some kind of villain. But you have no idea if the person pulling up in a Mercedes at the food bank is even 'taking advantage' of something they don't 'need' or not. People need to eat everyday. You can't eat a luxury car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigoTheCarpathian Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 5 hours ago, Tywin et al. said: It was about being fiscally responsible, not cars. It's just an easy example Of course they don't want to be there. But that really isn't the point, is it? And Reagan's argument was about people actively gaming the system. Mine is more about planning better. Not exactly. People these days tend to be bad at sacrificing their own pleasures. I've used WW2 as an example before. How do you think the population of this country would react if they were told they can only eat steak on Tuesdays, and on Sundays no one can eat meat because we need to ration supplies? Think that would go well? No, they did not, but as I said previously, having volunteered at food banks for years growing up, you definitely look at someone side-eyed who rolls up in a new Mercedes and wants a hand out. And that does happen a lot. So yes, I'd rather prioritize the family rolling up in a piece of shit beater, because they really do need it more. Never thought making sure supplies designated for the truly needy should go to the truly needy would be such a hot fucking take. Pragmatically, our society and our response to this crisis has been fairly shit. Across the board. And barring some fantasyland alternate history where we can collectively sacrifice a la WW2, and also somehow redesign our food system to meet food need and supply in a more perfect system (still waiting for my response about Taco Bell, btw), everyone is probably doing the best they can. My personal reason for responding strongly about this is your tossing out your personal absolute definitions of “essential” and “truly needy” leave a lot to be desired, when it comes to tactic for remediation. The system sucks and isn’t perfect - but random pointless complaints about others stuck in the system (“these people deserve help, but these don’t cuz reasons”) is lacking in empathy. You also need to show the math in terms of “x people are using up the resources and y people are not being served due to this real problem” - otherwise you are trafficking in the same Reagan hearsay bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, larrytheimp said: I don't think you're some kind of villain. But you have no idea if the person pulling up in a Mercedes at the food bank is even 'taking advantage' of something they don't 'need' or not. People need to eat everyday. You can't eat a luxury car. But I have a good idea when someone is asking for financial aid and we're going through their expenses. The unwillingness to sacrifice is what drives me nuts, especially when it can fix a number of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 10 minutes ago, VigoTheCarpathian said: Pragmatically, our society and our response to this crisis has been fairly shit. Across the board. And barring some fantasyland alternate history where we can collectively sacrifice a la WW2, and also somehow redesign our food system to meet food need and supply in a more perfect system (still waiting for my response about Taco Bell, btw), everyone is probably doing the best they can. My personal reason for responding strongly about this is your tossing out your personal absolute definitions of “essential” and “truly needy” leave a lot to be desired, when it comes to tactic for remediation. The system sucks and isn’t perfect - but random pointless complaints about others stuck in the system (“these people deserve help, but these don’t cuz reasons”) is lacking in empathy. You also need to show the math in terms of “x people are using up the resources and y people are not being served due to this real problem” - otherwise you are trafficking in the same Reagan hearsay bullshit. I knew there was a post I forgot to respond to. I'm going for a quick jog since somehow there's no snow still here in Minny and Chelsea is about to start, but I'll find it and get back to you in a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A True Kaniggit Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 24 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Clearly you're misunderstanding what I've been discussing. I don't judge the poor at all, and think by and large society has failed them. My frustration stems from people with means who are irresponsible, can't make ends meet and specifically take what was meant for those in need. As I said. People make mistakes. It happens. They shouldn't go hungry for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said: As I said. People make mistakes. It happens. They shouldn't go hungry for it. And their kids definitely shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Medical bills ... medical bills ... sorry, you’ll need to explain those. I live in Scotland where everyone pays towards the NHS and thus get free medical care when they’re ill. This even covers any scripts I need (not sure if that’s thr case yet in the rest of the UK). Private healthcare is still an option, especially if you want non-urgent work done quicker. It’s basically insurance; pay when you’re yoong and hooefully healthy, and grt thr benefit if you develop something chronic that prevents you from working (or cancer that might take a few years to kill you). And if you never need thr NHS, think of it as karmic reward for contributing to those who do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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