Which Tyler Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Heartofice said: I didn't realise the UK-EU trade deal had happened yet? Hence the use of the future tense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 1 minute ago, Which Tyler said: Hence the use of the future tense? So how do we know what tariffs will apply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 We're down to 2 options. Either an agreement is reached, in which case tariffs will apply if standards deviate. Or no agreement is reached, we trade on WTO terms. in which case tariffs will apply, whether or not standards deviate. There is no option where standards can significantly deviate without tariffs being applied. Sorry, no, there is a third option - if standards deviate significantly, then the relevant exports are banned - no tariffs as the trade is illegal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 It is unlikely that standards will deviate very much though. The UK has said all along it is happy to stick to non regression of standards, it's fundamental disagreement was with the method of determining any deviation; the EU wanting an exact replica of each others standards, the UK wanting to only apply tariffs if any deviation leads to provable outcome differences in competition (as well as a method of arbitration rather than unilateral decisions) So in that case, there probably won't be any tariffs on goods? So what has Johnson said that is incorrect in that video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaircat Meow Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Good piece on the ludicrous Brexiteer claims the proposed deal threatens sovereignty. A Canada-style trade deal? | UK in a changing Europe (ukandeu.ac.uk) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soylent Brown Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Even if an agreement is reached, it seems like it will be too late for both sides to review and pass it in time, so there will likely be a period of tariffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A wilding Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Possibly. The EU did previously offer another extension to the withdrawal period. Johnson turned it down, but I imagine that if a deal was agreed, he could handwave agreeing to extend it until the deal took effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padraig Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 There has been talk of an "implementation phase" to try to get around the ending of the transition phase. But any solution is not particularly simple. Transition period 3 hours ago, Heartofice said: It is unlikely that standards will deviate very much though. Really? I find that hard to believe (although I hope it is true). One of the main reasons for Brexit was the regulatory argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, Padraig said: Really? I find that hard to believe (although I hope it is true). One of the main reasons for Brexit was the regulatory argument. The UK has been reasonably happy to sign up to a non-regression clause with the EU when it comes to standards, there doesn't really appear to be this big push to turn the UK into some deregulated cowboy town that often gets imagined. The argument was mainly around sovereignty and being locked into a mechanism that effectively constrains how the UK sets its own laws in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 4 hours ago, Heartofice said: It is unlikely that standards will deviate very much though. The UK has said all along it is happy to stick to non regression of standards, it's fundamental disagreement was with the method of determining any deviation; the EU wanting an exact replica of each others standards, the UK wanting to only apply tariffs if any deviation leads to provable outcome differences in competition (as well as a method of arbitration rather than unilateral decisions) So in that case, there probably won't be any tariffs on goods? So what has Johnson said that is incorrect in that video? The UK have said many things that turned out to not be true. One of the main campaigning platforms was to cut the red tape (aka regulations). We've also absolutely refused to commit ourselves to maintaining standards. If we do maintain regulatory alignment with the EU, then you're right, no tariffs will apply; and LBD were still correct. LBD are merely cynical that this will be the case. I can't help noticing you're on your 3rd separate disagreement with LBD's tweet - but we're yet to find one that actually disagrees with the tweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 Either way, here's Kierhttps://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1339186741006233600 I'll never be a fan of the playground antics rather than facts and reason; but it's parliament, so that ship has long since sailed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, Which Tyler said: If we do maintain regulatory alignment with the EU, then you're right, no tariffs will apply; and LBD were still correct. LBD are merely cynical that this will be the case. I can't help noticing you're on your 3rd separate disagreement with LBD's tweet - but we're yet to find one that actually disagrees with the tweet. It's fine if they are cynical, I simply disagree. The deal itself is a disincentive to too much divergence. My point is the UK side never appeared to be pushing too hard to be allowed to create a situation where they can throw all regulations out the window, and in many cases UK regulations are tighter than EU ones. The main disagreement appears to be around the unilateral nature of the tariffs, and the arbitration methods. The UK appears to be happy to keep up with high standards, it's just more concerned with the outcomes of those standards rather than a strict 'do exactly as we do' methodology that the EU was pushing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosi Mynn Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 53 minutes ago, Which Tyler said: Either way, here's Kierhttps://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1339186741006233600 I'll never be a fan of the playground antics rather than facts and reason; but it's parliament, so that ship has long since sailed This was great. It was (probably) Sir Keir's last Question in 2020, and it summed up Jonson perfectly. HIs question about Cummings, and Johnson's "answer", was also a highlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Which Tyler said: Either way, here's Kierhttps://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1339186741006233600 I'll never be a fan of the playground antics rather than facts and reason; but it's parliament, so that ship has long since sailed Is he not a week early in roasting a well-stuffed turkey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted December 16, 2020 Share Posted December 16, 2020 6 hours ago, Heartofice said: I looked at her Twitter feed, I guessed she was either drunk or going through a mental breakdown, some of the stuff she’s spouting off you’d be shocked to see in a Trump tweet. Eh. Just guessed she just said that stuff because she’s a bigot. A person saying bigoted things is reasonable way to determine they’re a bigot imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 On 12/16/2020 at 9:39 AM, Derfel Cadarn said: Professional arsehole ‘journalist’ Julie Burchill’s book attacking cancel culture has been cancelled by its publisher after Islamaphobic comments in twitter https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/dec/15/julie-burchill-publisher-cancels-book-contract-islam-tweet-little-brown Amazing how hard it is to find what she actually said, and it seems to be a trend with this kind of thing ... “she said something Islamphobic, never mind what it was, just trust us”. I assume it was this one? Quote “Can you please remind me of the age of the Prophet Mohammad’s first wife? Thank you in anticipation!” That’s the only one any news article I can find actually mentions? I tried going through Twitter but I don’t know of a good way of following a conversation, without including every Union Jack avatar twat along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A wilding Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Well you have HoI's report on her posts: https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/158189-uk-politics-fishing-for-a-deal/&do=findComment&comment=8619468 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, DaveSumm said: Amazing how hard it is to find what she actually said, and it seems to be a trend with this kind of thing ... “she said something Islamphobic, never mind what it was, just trust us”. I assume it was this one? That’s the only one any news article I can find actually mentions? I tried going through Twitter but I don’t know of a good way of following a conversation, without including every Union Jack avatar twat along the way. I checked out her twitter after the incident, basically what I can tell happened was that 'LITERALLY A COMMUNIST' Ash Sarkar was commenting on a rod little piece in the Spectator from a few years ago where she was accusing him of paedophilia for joking that he couldn't ever be a headmaster because he'd probably try and shag the kids. Burchill turned up and made a comment about Islam and supposed ideas that mohammed had child brides. Now I don't really know if there is any background context to that conversation, but as far as I'm aware Sarkar is muslim but doesn't seem to ever talk about it or seems even remotely religious, so that comment seems bizarre and I think could justifiably be described as Islamaphobic. Looking through a lot of her other comments, she appears to be losing her mind though, her twitter feed is a long list of odd rants, random song links with dodgy titles, attacking people. I'd suspect she was probably drunk when writing these things, but then you'd think you'd take them down when you sobered up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varysblackfyre321 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 2 hours ago, DaveSumm said: Amazing how hard it is to find what she actually said, and it seems to be a trend with this kind of thing ... “she said something Islamphobic, never mind what it was, just trust us”. I assume it was this one? That’s the only one any news article I can find actually mentions? I tried going through Twitter but I don’t know of a good way of following a conversation, without including every Union Jack avatar twat along the way. It’s not really hard to find what she said and the context of what’s she’s being criticized for. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9058903/Publisher-cancels-Julie-Burchills-book-contract-Islamophobic-Twitter-row.html Insinuating it’s hypocritical for a Muslim to be against children being sexually abused because of Muhammad supposed engaging in a marriage to a 10 year old. So I think “you have to support pedophilia if you’re a Muslim” can be seen as islamophobic, What she said is as big smooth brained as saying it’s hypocritical for any Jews or Christians to dislike people owning slaves because Abraham did. Or dislike pedophiles because Moses is having been documented as massacring entire tribes and taking little girls to be brides for his soldiers. Also, I just have to say “Muhammad’s a pedo criticism” always struck me as applying contemporary views on adulthood, sex and the ability to consent in a time period that had different viewings of each. The age of consent in the UK in 1200 was 10 for instance. I don’t think most people in the UK believe that’s okay anymore thankfully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Yay - we really are world beating - our Covid Corruption is headline worthy in Trumpland! www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/17/world/europe/britain-covid-contracts.htm Waste, Negligence and Cronyism: Inside Britain’s Pandemic Spending In the desperate scramble for protective gear and other equipment, politically connected companies reaped billions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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