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Alternate wives for Stannis

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Just now, Willam Stark said:

I don't think that he doesn't like to be around women, just that he is very introvert and doesn't like his wife.

As an introvert I can testify that people often see us as cold persons, because we are not expressive, it seems to be the case here. But we only behave like this with strangers, with our loved ones we are more open and maybe it's the same with Stannis.

Melissandre on the other hand is sexually attractive, it's not surprising.

This is what got me thinking of Lynesse as an alternate wife for him. Just some speculation at what he could have accomplished with a more outgoing partner. Who he might truly have some degree of affection for and who could be his social face. 

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42 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

The Florents are not the same tier as the Freys. Not on any level.

The Freys have more than twice the manpower of House Florent and are one of the strongest houses in their region. The Reach equivalent of that military clout would be House Hightower to the Tyrells/Tullys. 

And the Florents are far above the Freys in terms of prestige. They have blood ties to the Gardeners and boast an ancient founder with ties to a legendary figure of the Reach. The Freys have been a noble house for hundreds of years and they're still the upjumped house descended from bridge builders and toll collectors.

Being one of the strongest houses in the Riverlands didn’t stop Roger Reyne and Tytos’ son Tywin from raising a fuss when the betrothal was announced, with Roger storming out and Tywin publicly criticizing his father for the match.

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1 minute ago, Lord Lannister said:

This is what got me thinking of Lynesse as an alternate wife for him. Just some speculation at what he could have accomplished with a more outgoing partner. Who he might truly have some degree of affection for and who could be his social face. 

Lynesse and Stannis might be a decent couple, though that comes with a few "if"'s. Firstly, if Stannis leaves her on Dragonstone while he's in King's Landing, then she's going to be utterly miserable. Secondly, if they can't build any affection between them, then it's just throwing two very different people together in a marriage from which they can't escape. Speaking as someone who married and divorced someone very different from him, opposites might attract but it doesn't always end well. 

And Lynesse is very much Stannis' opposite. We don't know much about her, but we do know that she's soft, spoiled, and very materialistic. Stannis, meanwhile, is spartan in his dress and demeanour, hardened by grief and loss, and harsh with his judgment of those who fail to match his own moral code. Lynesse fell for Jorah because he was a knight in shining armour. Stannis is more accomplished than Jorah, but nobody's going to make a song about him, nor would he arguably want a song made about him.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

Being one of the strongest houses in the Riverlands didn’t stop Roger Reyne and Tytos’ son Tywin from raising a fuss when the betrothal was announced, with Roger storming out and Tywin publicly criticizing his father for the match.

I think he criticized it because:

1. House Frey is still regarded as an upjumped toll collector family

2. Emmon's not even the heir, that match is below her higher birth (Even though the concept of "higher birth" is bull, let's think in world here). Stevron would've been better if he wasn't married yet.

3. He's ugly, not a good fighter, and is not strong politically. He's very weak willed. 

And Roger Reyne didn't like it because he wanted Genna for himself. 

Edited by Jaenara Belarys

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9 minutes ago, Willam Stark said:

I don't think that he doesn't like to be around women, just that he is very introvert and doesn't like his wife.

As an introvert I can testify that people often see us as cold persons, because we are not expressive, it seems to be the case here. But we only behave like this with strangers, with our loved ones we are more open and maybe it's the same with Stannis.

Melissandre on the other hand is sexually attractive, it's not surprising.

I wasn’t just referring to Selyse. Cersei prides herself on being beautiful but she believed that she’d have a better chance seducing Stannis’ horse. Asha observes Stannis with Lady Glover, and she also speaks to him herself. She doesn’t sugar-coat her opinion of Stannis being uncomfortable around women. Melisandre is the only woman for whom he seems to have any desire, and I’m honestly not sure if it wasn’t just some kind of magic or glamour.

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7 minutes ago, James Steller said:

Lynesse and Stannis might be a decent couple, though that comes with a few "if"'s. Firstly, if Stannis leaves her on Dragonstone while he's in King's Landing, then she's going to be utterly miserable. Secondly, if they can't build any affection between them, then it's just throwing two very different people together in a marriage from which they can't escape. Speaking as someone who married and divorced someone very different from him, opposites might attract but it doesn't always end well. 

And Lynesse is very much Stannis' opposite. We don't know much about her, but we do know that she's soft, spoiled, and very materialistic. Stannis, meanwhile, is spartan in his dress and demeanour, hardened by grief and loss, and harsh with his judgment of those who fail to match his own moral code. Lynesse fell for Jorah because he was a knight in shining armour. Stannis is more accomplished than Jorah, but nobody's going to make a song about him, nor would he arguably want a song made about him.

There are a lot of unknowns. We only hear about Lynesse through Jorah's hearsay and of course we never actually get into Stannis' head. It's definitely take someone special to get Stannis' affection and not to go crazy. Maybe that's Lynesse, maybe not. 

To Lynesse's materialism, I'm just going to assume Dragonstone is more nicely furnished than Bear Island. Assuming she didn't manage to work her way onto the court at King's Landing anyway. As for not wanting a song made about him, that might be true of Stannis. But I think on some level he'd be inwardly pleased to have a wife who advocates for him, recognizes his worth and wants others to see it. After all he lived his entire life in Robert's shadow along with all the slights that went with that. 

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Jaime's at least trying to redeem himself. Arya...tell me do you feel bad about all the people she's killed? Dany, those slaver turds can go **** themselves in seven hells. Tyrion, his wildfire, they would've killed him. 

"Your Honour, it wasn't really murder; the victims were bad people."

See how long you last in court with that defence. 

And as for Tyrion, I actually went easy on him. He sexually assaulted a sex slave because of his own daddy issues, he ordered a singer to be killed and unknowingly fed to the poor people of Flea Bottom (none of whom know that they're committing cannibalism), he strangled a sex worker to death because she was doing her job, and I don't care what the cause was, he still burned over a hundred times more men than Stannis ever did. If you're going to condemn Stannis for war crimes but spare Tyrion from doing the same thing, then you're just being a hypocrite.

Edited by Floki of the Ironborn

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

There are a lot of unknowns. We only hear about Lynesse through Jorah's hearsay and of course we never actually get into Stannis' head. It's definitely take someone special to get Stannis' affection and not to go crazy. Maybe that's Lynesse, maybe not. 

To Lynesse's materialism, I'm just going to assume Dragonstone is more nicely furnished than Bear Island. Assuming she didn't manage to work her way onto the court at King's Landing anyway. As for not wanting a song made about him, that might be true of Stannis. But I think on some level he'd be inwardly pleased to have a wife who advocates for him, recognizes his worth and wants others to see it. After all he lived his entire life in Robert's shadow along with all the slights that went with that. 

Good points. And I'd have loved for Stannis to actually be happy with some aspect of his life. Maybe he would have had several kids with Lynesse, and maybe they would have brought out the best in each other? It's hard to say for sure, but I do believe that Lynesse would have had a better chance of making Stannis happy than Selyse, and Stannis would have been in a better position for Lynesse's status than Jorah. 

Come to think of it, I wonder if Robert purposely chose an unattractive woman to marry Stannis so that Cersei's massive ego wouldn't ever feel threatened. Or maybe Cersei even suggested it to Robert. 

Edited by James Steller

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26 minutes ago, James Steller said:

Good points. And I'd have loved for Stannis to actually be happy with some aspect of his life. Maybe he would have had several kids with Lynesse, and maybe they would have brought out the best in each other? It's hard to say for sure, but I do believe that Lynesse would have had a better chance of making Stannis happy than Selyse, and Stannis would have been in a better position for Lynesse's status than Jorah. 

Come to think of it, I wonder if Robert purposely chose an unattractive woman to marry Stannis so that Cersei's massive ego wouldn't ever feel threatened. Or maybe Cersei even suggested it to Robert. 

On paper the match seems to make a bit of sense. But yeah, I always assumed that Robert arranged his marriage with Selysse. Just kind of seems his style. Robert was always a bully to those under his power he didn't like. I don't believe for one second the sleeping with the hotter cousin in his marriage bed thing was an accident for one second. But I guess any scenario that Stannis marries someone else would require Robert to be less of a dick(or to just not care in this instance which might be easier) or Stannis to deviate from his duty to his older brother. 

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1 hour ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

"Your Honour, it wasn't really murder; the victims were bad people."

See how long you last in court with that defence. 

And as for Tyrion, I actually went easy on him. He sexually assaulted a sex slave because of his own daddy issues, he ordered a singer to be killed and unknowingly fed to the poor people of Flea Bottom (none of whom know that they're committing cannibalism), he strangled a sex worker to death because she was doing her job, and I don't care what the cause was, he still burned over a hundred times more men than Stannis ever did. If you're going to condemn Stannis for war crimes but spare Tyrion from doing the same thing, then you're just being a hypocrite.

Speaking of hypocrisy, he rapes a sex slave because she finds him repulsive to look at, yet he himself finds Penny ugly because she's a dwarf. 

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6 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

To be fair, Stannis would be a terrible husband no matter how pretty or powerful his wife was. He doesn’t like being around women, and only sees it as a duty to marry them. He doesn’t even stay faithful to his wife either, though his sleeping around with Melisandre feels like an inconsistency on GRRM’s part.

Was he actually conscious whilst having sex with Melisandre?  I ask because he seems to feel no regret/internal conflict over it, or any evidence of him being aware that it actually happened, that I can find, and she certainly would have the means.

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13 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I'm with you on that one; if Emmon Frey, the second son of a mid-tier Lord, raised a fuss because he was betrothed to the only daughter of a Lord Paramount, how could Selyse Florent, the daughter of a third son whose family was of a similar tier as the Freys, be a suitable match for the brother and heir presumptive to a king? On the other hand the rules seem pretty flexible since Tywin allowed his brother Kevan to marry the daughter of a disgraced family.

There is probably a difference between who a lady marries and who a lord marries.  A lady marrying a lower lord is worse because she will be dependent on that lord and his holdings.  Stannis as a lord marrying a lower lady is less an issue because she will be entering his household rather than him leaving to join hers.

16 hours ago, James Steller said:

It's debatable whether Stannis personally chose Selyse to be his bride, but given how match making seems to work in Westeros, I'm inclined to believe that Robert and maybe even Jon Arryn were somehow involved. 

I doubt Robert cared the slightest who Stannis married.  If Stannis had married on Robert's order that would have came up in one of Stannis's various sessions of complaining about everything while making himself out to be a martyr.

 

12 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

This might end up making a huge difference on if the Hightower's support Stannis during the War of the Five kings later on, or at the very least do so more full heartedly after Renly dies.

House Florent had no problem supporting Renly over Stannis, why shouldn't House Hightower still favor Renly over Stannis in that case?  Especially, how Renly is married to Hightower's granddaughter so he is still supporting his blood.

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26 minutes ago, Minsc said:

House Florent had no problem supporting Renly over Stannis, why shouldn't House Hightower still favor Renly over Stannis in that case?  Especially, how Renly is married to Hightower's granddaughter so he is still supporting his blood.

Entirely possible, I allowed for it. Most of the Reach houses were kinda meh towards Stannis after Renly died though. A blood connection to Stannis, especially with children might cause the Hightowers to back him more firmly assuming Renly's death goes as it did. 

Also your name is very nostalgic for me. I loved the Baldur's Gate games. :)

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18 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Well, get me some whetstones please. I won't be using the axe on: Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, Jon ( he be dead right now anyway, but he'll probably be coming back), Jaime, Dany, Brienne, Podrick and Ser Hyle. 

Obviously Tyrion and Daenerys only make sure people are dead before they burn them. Or we are witnessing genuine Targaryen wit here. 

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4 hours ago, Eltharion21 said:

Obviously Tyrion and Daenerys only make sure people are dead before they burn them. Or we are witnessing genuine Targaryen wit here. 

You feel bad for that turd Kraznys mo Nakloz? 

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

You feel bad for that turd Kraznys mo Nakloz? 

So burning is ok if you are only burning turds? Fitting as Targaryens often get burned themselves.

This is your quote:

Quote

"The only wife I have for Stannis is an axe. He burns people alive. "

Vs

"Well, get me some whetstones please. I won't be using the axe on: Tyrion, Sansa, Arya, Jon ( he be dead right now anyway, but he'll probably be coming back), Jaime, Dany, Brienne, Podrick and Ser Hyle. "

 

Doubtless Daenerys burns people alive like she burned Mirri Maz Duur , or her children do - something she is bound to do even more as her dragons so far were tiny, even those innocent like Hazzea, and Daenerys punishes randomly 163 Grand Masters- not giving them a trial but letting nobles choose themselves who would die, or the innocent girl she orders be tortured so her father would talk.

Tyrion burned countless people with Wildfire during the Battle of Blackwater  - fighting to save his ugly head and bastard Joffrey's crown, prolonging the crimes of corrupt Lannister regime.

Either do same as Stannis, but he at least has so far some justification in burning those who get burned.

Edited by Eltharion21

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Posted (edited)

I don't have much sympathy for Kraznys. 

3 minutes ago, Eltharion21 said:

Doubtless Daenerys burns people alive like she burned Mirri Maz Duur , or her children do - something she is bound to do even more as her dragons so far were tiny, even those innocent like Hazzea, and Daenerys punishes randomly 163

Do you remember WHY she crucified 163 Great Masters? 

3 minutes ago, Eltharion21 said:

Tyrion burned countless people with Wildfire during the Battle of Blackwater  - fighting to save his ugly head and bastard Joffrey's crown, prolonging the crimes of corrupt Lannister regime.

 

If soldiers were burned by napalm in a battle, that would not be a war crime. That would be the risks of war. The Battle of the Blackwater was not an Aerys II case. 

Edited by Jaenara Belarys

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2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

I don't have much sympathy for Kraznys. 

Do you remember WHY she crucified 163 Great Masters? 

If soldiers were burned by napalm in a battle, that would not be a war crime. That would be the risks of war. The Battle of the Blackwater was not an Aerys II case. 

Me neither have much sympathy for turds.

Hopefully because they were personally guilty for the crime she was crucifying them.

Burning by unnecessarily cruel weapon could be considered a  war crime, depending of codified law. 

You need to separate justice as an ideal and law that should be striving to that ideal - while in fact is led often by other interests - while something isn't ban currently due to interests powers that be - doesn't mean it shouldn't be.

Quote

 

After more than 150 years of arms control treaties, countries have invented, used, and then banned weapons designed to choke, maim, and otherwise kill warfighters in an inhumane fashion (as ironic as that sounds).

4. Incendiary Weapons
The use of weapons designed just to burn or set fire to large areas which may be full of civilians are also prohibited. The ban covers actual flame, heat or chemical reactions, so this limits the use of flamethrowers, napalm, and white phosphorus. You can still use a flamethrower, you just can’t use it near civilians, which, on today’s battlefield, might be a tall order.

Napalm is that the substance itself isn’t banned as a weapon, but using it on anything other than a concentrated area where the enemy is using foliage as concealment is banned.

 

Using such volatile substance Tyrion had more luck than brains in using it , he could had easily burned down the entire city.

Tyrion ordered people to be burned alive, and himself devised trap - chain and bomb ship that caused most deaths- using sane logic he should be held accountable - even he does personally.

Though concept is maybe hard to grasp for trigger happy Targaryen fan - who has image of dragon burning people for profile and yet criticizes people using fire as way of executing criminals.

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3 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

You feel bad for that turd Kraznys mo Nakloz? 

I feel bad for Mirri. She saved countless lives by stopping the Dothraki conquest in its tracks while also avenging her people. Daenerys was too blind and too proud to see her own role in all that.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/7/2021 at 12:04 PM, Eltharion21 said:

Though concept is maybe hard to grasp for trigger happy Targaryen fan - who has image of dragon burning people for profile and yet criticizes people using fire as way of executing criminals.

I'll take that as a compliment, my lord. Oh, was Alester Florent a criminal? Were Guncer Sunglass and Hubert Rambton and his sons criminals? Hmm?

On 5/7/2021 at 12:04 PM, Eltharion21 said:

Tyrion ordered people to be burned alive, and himself devised trap - chain and bomb ship that caused most deaths- using sane logic he should be held accountable - even he does personally.

 

It's a war. And if you were Tyrion, and you couldn't use your trump card, how would you plan the battle? Against more men and ships, a whole army that supports destroying the customs of the Seven Kingdoms and forcing you to worship an alien god?

Edited by Jaenara Belarys

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