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MCU: a very special Hawkeye Christmas…


Ser Scot A Ellison
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6 minutes ago, DMC said:

 

Anyway, thinking about this Thanos as eternal/deviant/both discussion, what stood out to me is how seamlessly Thanos' actions could be explained by him being another renegade eternal.  He finds out what Arishem's real plan for Titan is a la Sersi and Ajak, then his response to try to stop the emergence is to half the population - a very intuitive solution.  Due to his failure, he tries to do this on other planets, but due to lack of information on precisely which planets actually have celestial eggs (or whatever you wanna call it), he pursues the opportunity to half the population for all planets.  

Of course, Titan still being around in Infinity War throws a big wrench into that explanation - definitely got the impression earth would be completely obliterated if Tiamut..emerged.  But other than that I'm having a hard time coming up with any other inconsistencies.  Ajak even explicitly states Thanos delayed the emergence.

No.  It still works to an extent...in that, in his attempts to offer Titan their own genocide, he incites a conflict that wrecks the planet in a manner we see, thus rendering it incapable of its own emergence...giving Thanos what he wanted, but not in the manner he wanted, so he then goes out at attempts to do the same for other worlds...

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13 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

No.  It still works to an extent...in that, in his attempts to offer Titan their own genocide, he incites a conflict that wrecks the planet in a manner we see, thus rendering it incapable of its own emergence...giving Thanos what he wanted, but not in the manner he wanted, so he then goes out at attempts to do the same for other worlds...

K.  I'm not sure what your point here is.  

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Just now, DaveSumm said:

I’d hate it if they retcon Thanos’s motivations like that, he explicitly tells us it’s a resource thing. And it doesn’t explain his slightly younger Endgame version saying ‘fuck it, I’ll just kill everyone’.

To be clear I'm not suggesting they should provide that explanation for Thanos (especially considering there's no point to now), just that it's interesting to think about how much it fits. 

As for him telling Stark, Rodgers and Thor that he'll destroy everything and rebuild the universe during Endgame, well, I'd say his reasoning for doing that - that others would always resist his efforts otherwise - still holds.

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5 minutes ago, DMC said:

K.  I'm not sure what your point here is.  

You simply said that Titan still existing threw a wrench into the idea that the Celestial that might have been there didn't emerge...if Thanos didn't succeed in halving the population of Titan and there had been a Celestial, how did the planet survive?  My thought was that Thanos succeeds in stopping the emergence on Titan, it just doesn't happen the way he intended...he then goes off and attempts the halving of populations to prevent other emergences on other planets...

I was looking for a comic booky explanation for your thought to actually work...that's all...

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7 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

I’d hate it if they retcon Thanos’s motivations like that, he explicitly tells us it’s a resource thing. And it doesn’t explain his slightly younger Endgame version saying ‘fuck it, I’ll just kill everyone’.

(Despite my attempts to "write" the comic book style ret-con explanations to DMCs thoughts and now this one...I want to make clear that I don't think it's needed to explain away Thanos like this...that it's how I think a comic book writer would explain it away twenty years after the initial story already appeared..you know, like they do in comic books...)

But my response to the resource idea...in ret-con writing...is that Thanos wouldn't tell populations he was committing genocide to save their planet from the possible emergence of a Celestial...he'd simply hide the truth behind the resource idea...

 

(I'm thinking about this too hard...in trying to see how if could all fit...I know I am...) 

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10 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

My thought was that Thanos succeeds in stopping the emergence on Titan, it just doesn't happen the way he intended...he then goes off and attempts the halving of populations to prevent other emergences on other planets...

I was looking for a comic booky explanation for your thought to actually work...that's all...

Ah, gotcha, thanks.  Yeah, that does sound like a good way to explain why Titan is still there.

7 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

But my response to the resource idea...in ret-con writing...is that Thanos wouldn't tell populations he was committing genocide to save their planet from the possible emergence of a Celestial...he'd simply hide the truth behind the resource idea...

Yeah I forgot to respond to the resource part but this seems like the obvious - and perfectly plausible - explanation.  Thanos trying to explain his actual reasoning would just make him sound even more insane.  And, when you think about it, Thanos' motivations are a "resource" thing - from a certain point of view.

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Man Obi Wan is really good at seeing things from other points of view. I hope his upcoming series includes a lot of him lying and then acting like he didn't. "I didn't fuck your wife! ....from a certain point of view"

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I feel like if nothing else the explanation doesn't hold water in so far as the infinity stones are supposed to control everything in the universe, and thus why would Thanos snap half of all life when he could just snap the Celestials. 

 

I mean, you could just waggle a retcon that they don't work on the Celestials, but so far the only weakness we've seen for the stones is when they were (seemingly) outside of the universe/time stream entirely. 

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19 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

I feel like if nothing else the explanation doesn't hold water in so far as the infinity stones are supposed to control everything in the universe, and thus why would Thanos snap half of all life when he could just snap the Celestials. 

 

I mean, you could just waggle a retcon that they don't work on the Celestials, but so far the only weakness we've seen for the stones is when they were (seemingly) outside of the universe/time stream entirely. 

Didn’t they say something in the movie about the Celestials existing before the six singularities? Or maybe they used another word, but I assumed they meant the Stones. Maybe because of that they wouldn’t be affected by them?

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6 hours ago, briantw said:

I thought the movie would have been a little better if the main Deviant ended up helping them at the end once he realized that some of the Eternals were trying to stop the emergence instead of just existing so that Angelina Jolie could have a badass moment.

Talking about this badass moment, it seemed very dumb on the Boss Deviant’s part. He’d forgotten that Thena can make sharp knives out of thin air?

Compared to most MCU films though, there wasn’t many specific scenes to nitpick. It was all very big and vague.

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20 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

why would Thanos snap half of all life when he could just snap the Celestials. 

 

Good question.  But as you said, the easiest explanation is the celestials exist "outside" the universe.  This, I think, is well supported by the Eternals' opening crawl:  "In the beginning... before the six singularities and the dawn of creation, came the Celestials."

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I wonder are there different Celestials for each universe in the multiverse? or is it like The Watcher where there's just one of him monitoring the whole multiverse? To be clear I realize the watchers are a race but it doesn't seem like there's more than one of Jeffrey Wrights guy. 

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3 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I wonder are there different Celestials for each universe in the multiverse? or is it like The Watcher where there's just one of him monitoring the whole multiverse? To be clear I realize the watchers are a race but it doesn't seem like there's more than one of Jeffrey Wrights guy. 

Weren't there a whole bunch of Watchers talking to Stan Lee, in the second GotG film.

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1 minute ago, sifth said:

Weren't there a whole bunch of Watchers talking to Stan Lee, in the second GotG film.

Yeah that's why I added that last sentence. My inference from What If...? is that they're a race who exist outside the multiverse and there's only one of each of them. Like each universe we see doesn't have it's own Jeffery Wright watcher, it's the same one throughout. 

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1 minute ago, sifth said:

Weren't there a whole bunch of Watchers talking to Stan Lee, in the second GotG film.

Yep.

 

Anyway, trying to work out how the Celestials fit with what we learned about Kang and multiverses in the Loki series is my biggest problem with Eternals.  Hard to see how they really fit in the MCU.

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5 minutes ago, DMC said:

Anyway, trying to work out how the Celestials fit with what we learned about Kang and multiverses in the Loki series is my biggest problem with Eternals.  Hard to see how they really fit in the MCU.

It's funny to think in how few universes the earth would still even be there for Kang to be born. 

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12 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Deleted Kingpin scene from Hawkeye:

 

Man, I miss that Kingpin. It's remarkable how fucking terrifying he can be being 'nice'. The menace in every single syllable he manages to exude.

It's a shame that we didn't have more of that in the last ep, but hopefully we can get more of him later.

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Apparently a bunch of deleted scenes were posted on Disney+ in some regions (I don't see them here in the US) I'm just gonna post this one because it's Kingpin offering to take little maya out for ice cream:

I guess they considered not hiding who he was? 

 

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