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Thor: Love and Thunder [SPOILERS]


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Posted (edited)

Well, that was a lot.

Better than WW84 but man there was a lot of cringe in this movie. I don't have a problem with the tonal inconsistencies so much but the pacing seemed very meh to me. 

They talk to their hammers now? Their Hammers have moods? They get jealous?

Christian Bale was the best thing about this for me. I liked how his arc ended. Natalie Portman was too, even if they gave her some cringe dialogue.

No, the Greeks should not build a monument to Russel Crowe. He was pretty good but ultimately he was a goofy element that was briefly in a film with a lot of goofy shit. I'm not sure how I feel about him sounding like my dad.

I really don't like that New Asgard is a tourist trap. Although I'm sure some of the merch on display there will soon be available in stores everywhere.

So, you can make wishes at eternity? Why didn't they wish for some galactic cancer meds?

It felt like it was trying too hard at times. It was good that it embraced its own goofiness but it doesn't do it in a way that something like the Deadpool films or Everything Everywhere All At Once does. Maybe those are just better films.

One or two songs have endured for me, but overall I'm not a fan of Guns n' Roses. I can go without ever hearing Welcome to the Jungle and Sweet Child o'Mine again, thanks. 

I don't think I'll be seeing this again. 

 

Edited by Deadlines? What Deadlines?
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I think it was unrestrained Taika Waititi that was the problem. In the first film he had some training wheels on and oversight because it was his first MCU movie and I think they already had the ideas ("Do Planet Hulk!") locked in place when he was hired. This time around it feels like he was more in charge but maybe he didn't have his eye fully on the prize (having a dozen other projects going on will do that for you). The script certainly felt very "first draft, needs more revisions," to me.

Lots of good ideas though, and I was intrigued that Eternity's silhouette seemed vaguely like Galactus.

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4 hours ago, Werthead said:

I think it was unrestrained Taika Waititi that was the problem. In the first film he had some training wheels on and oversight because it was his first MCU movie and I think they already had the ideas ("Do Planet Hulk!") locked in place when he was hired. This time around it feels like he was more in charge but maybe he didn't have his eye fully on the prize (having a dozen other projects going on will do that for you). The script certainly felt very "first draft, needs more revisions," to me.

Lots of good ideas though, and I was intrigued that Eternity's silhouette seemed vaguely like Galactus.

I mean Jojo Rabbit was unrestrained Taika Waititi as well, and it was possibly one of his best films. In fact structurally both this film and that one are similar, where the first half is filled with comedy and jokes and the second half is where the tone completely shifts and you're in a drama now. I think the problems is, there are two many things in this film, that shouldn't be there, like the GotG; it reminded me of Rise of Skywalkers pacing, when it came to getting them out of the film, as quickly as possible. Same with Sif, who was just thrown into the movie.................so we could learn that she was still alive, I guess. I get the feeling Sif's one scene was a reshoot, it just has that feel to it, kind of like the scene from the new Dr. Strange film, where they talk about Spider Man.

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9 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

So, you can make wishes at eternity? Why didn't they wish for some galactic cancer meds?

To be fair they did say only the first person to get there could make a wish. But also I guess Thor could have gone there at any time to solve any of his previous problems, or the cancer thing.

He can also apparently hand out his powers, which is cool but again could have been useful previously. He must really hate Hawkeye to have left him with a regular bow + arrow all these years.

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, RumHam said:

To be fair they did say only the first person to get there could make a wish. But also I guess Thor could have gone there at any time to solve any of his previous problems, or the cancer thing.

I must have missed that part. How is that kid super powered again?

3 hours ago, sifth said:

I mean Jojo Rabbit was unrestrained Taika Waititi as well, and it was possibly one of his best films. In fact structurally both this film and that one are similar, where the first half is filled with comedy and jokes and the second half is where the tone completely shifts and you're in a drama now. I think the problems is, there are two many things in this film, that shouldn't be there, like the GotG; it reminded me of Rise of Skywalkers pacing, when it came to getting them out of the film, as quickly as possible. Same with Sif, who was just thrown into the movie.................so we could learn that she was still alive, I guess. I get the feeling Sif's one scene was a reshoot, it just has that feel to it, kind of like the scene from the new Dr. Strange film, where they talk about Spider Man.

Yeah Jojo Rabbit was alright. It was certainly a lot funnier than this was. 

I'm sure there were a lot of reshoots. I wouldn't say the pacing was "Rise of Skywalker" and I wouldn't say it was bad exactly, it just didn't seem to build to anything. it feels a bit directionless if I'm honest.

ETA: if you want to see a really fast paced film that actually works, Spielberg's Tin Tin movie is a perfect example. That thing ramps up about 2 minutes in and really doesn't let up until the end. 

Sif was a cameo and that's fine. I wish they could have incorporated a larger role for the GotTG. They might have come in handy when it came to all the zooming around. I can't remember; was Gamora not with them? Mantis could have calmed down the goats. 

7 hours ago, Werthead said:

I think it was unrestrained Taika Waititi that was the problem. In the first film he had some training wheels on and oversight because it was his first MCU movie and I think they already had the ideas ("Do Planet Hulk!") locked in place when he was hired. This time around it feels like he was more in charge but maybe he didn't have his eye fully on the prize (having a dozen other projects going on will do that for you). The script certainly felt very "first draft, needs more revisions," to me.

Lots of good ideas though, and I was intrigued that Eternity's silhouette seemed vaguely like Galactus.

Vaguely. I thought it was a Kirby original but it's actually Ditko.

Isn't it interesting that no one criticised the "Planet Hulk" stuff as not being "comic accurate"? Sakar in the comic books is much more "beyond thunderdome" then what we saw back in 2017.

Back to the film, There were celestials at the god retreat. Do they get invited to the orgy? Because that would be weird. Are the the site of the orgy? because that would be even weirder. 

Edited by Deadlines? What Deadlines?
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15 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I must have missed that part. How is that kid super powered again?

Yeah they really just breezed past explaining that. There's I think one line from Korg about how she "had the power of Eternity" but like wtf does that even mean? Also....why? Presumably Gorr just wished for her to be revived.

It also occurred to me that it's weird the Guardians didn't show up at the end. Weren't they going to answer distress calls caused by Gorr's rampage? So It seems like they went, comforted people whose gods had been killed, heard about this Gorr guy and then decided "Nah, Thor's got this. Plus I really don't want to see him or those goats again."

I liked Foster's sacrifice, but it seems weird in a world with so many other heroes he could have called (or paged) for help. Or like you know give the remaining Asguardian soldiers his power for a bit.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

 

Yeah Jojo Rabbit was alright. It was certainly a lot funnier than this was. 

I'm sure there were a lot of reshoots. I wouldn't say the pacing was "Rise of Skywalker" and I wouldn't say it was bad exactly, it just didn't seem to build to anything. it feels a bit directionless if I'm honest.

ETA: if you want to see a really fast paced film that actually works, Spielberg's Tin Tin movie is a perfect example. That thing ramps up about 2 minutes in and really doesn't let up until the end. 

Sif was a cameo and that's fine. I wish they could have incorporated a larger role for the GotTG. They might have come in handy when it came to all the zooming around. I can't remember; was Gamora not with them? Mantis could have calmed down the goats. 

 

No, Gamora was not with them. So having slept on in, I have my own theory on the GotG being in this film and I get the feeling they weren't suppose to be in the original draft. Remember that GotG vol 3, was suppose to come out a year after End Game, however only a few months/weeks before filming was suppose to start James Gunn got fired, which I'm sure caused a whole lot of problems. I get the feeling Thor was suppose to either leave the team in that film, or shortly before it started. However, because of GotG vol 3 being delayed, Thor was still hanging out with those guys, at the start of this film and they were therefore written into a movie, in which they didn't belong in. I get the feeling Waititi wanted to get them out of the film ASAP, so he wouldn't in anyway effect the story of James Gunn's film.

 

It's a shame too, since Thor has really great chemistry with those characters and I'd personally love an entire film with him just hanging around with them and going on adventures together. Heck how they're written out of the film, is insanely lazy. There's apparently too many distress calls going on throughout the universe and they randomly decide to split up. Also when did Korg join the team? He wasn't with Thor on the ship at the end of End Game. I get the feeling Waititi tried to write himself into as much of this movie as possible. Don't get me wrong, I love Korg, but it felt like there was too much of him after a while. 

Edited by sifth
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40 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Isn't it interesting that no one criticised the "Planet Hulk" stuff as not being "comic accurate"? Sakar in the comic books is much more "beyond thunderdome" then what we saw back in 2017.

I dunno why, but comics get a free pass on this. Nobody expects a comic book movie to pay more than lip service to the comics it is based on, certainly not a Marvel or DC movie.

On the other hand, these days if you adapt a novel and there's so much as one molecule's deviation from the page, then you are ten times worse than Hitler and you will be castigated and screamed at until you die, from a certain subset of fans.

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Posted (edited)

Did some of the comedy in this film seem kind of dated to anyone? Like I felt like we were getting jokes that were meant to imply characters were either gay/bi or "unmanly", like Zeus wearing a skirt or Thor being naked, or the look Thor gives to Quill when they part ways. Like, why are these things suppose to make me laugh, I don't get it.

Edited by sifth
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46 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I dunno why, but comics get a free pass on this. Nobody expects a comic book movie to pay more than lip service to the comics it is based on, certainly not a Marvel or DC movie.

Oh those debates still happen. Though they're mostly relegated to twitter and I suspect a lot of it is just cynical weaponization against a franchise/studio/actor/director someone likes/doesn't. Man of Steel is a perfect example.

Also, there are very few CBM's that attempt direct adaptations of specific source material. Or, that material is so obscure that nobody cares. Iron man was very much a 2nd tier character before the MCU. Does anyone remember his actual origin story? What about the Guardians of the Galaxy? 

56 minutes ago, Werthead said:

On the other hand, these days if you adapt a novel and there's so much as one molecule's deviation from the page, then you are ten times worse than Hitler and you will be castigated and screamed at until you die, from a certain subset of fans.

I've always advocated the position that and adaptation is an interpretation; by definition. story telling techniques that work in print might not work on the screen and vice versa. If someone blows their top unless absolute fidelity to the source material is achieved, they should avoid adaptations and just enjoy life. 

Two of the best English language films made in my lifetime are Blade Runner and Apocalypse Now. Both are extremely loose adaptations of revered source material; both in terms of world building and themes. You could add The Shining to that list, that was even bashed by the author of the source material and was kind of a critical and commercial flop. It's safe to say its reputation has been rehabilitated somewhat in recent years. 

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2 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

Also, there are very few CBM's that attempt direct adaptations of specific source material. Or, that material is so obscure that nobody cares. Iron man was very much a 2nd tier character before the MCU. Does anyone remember his actual origin story? What about the Guardians of the Galaxy? 

I've seen the argument that comic characters are often more iconic than any individual story: Iron Man, Spider-Man, Captain America etc are all cumulatively fantastic characters, but their origin stories are dated and of their time. Sta Lee was a genius comic book writer by the standards of 1961, but directly putting his dialogue in the mouths of people in the 21st Century would feel too cheesy.

On the other hand, there are comic books where the story is held as being iconic and if you're going to do it, you need to do it faithfully: Watchmen is the uber-example there (where of course doing an almost 1:1 translation did not do Zack Snyder any favours), but also Sandman (making how the Netflix show goes down very interesting indeed) and The Dark Knight Returns. Which is why every Batman movie ever basically says they're taking ideas from that book but no-one is crazy enough to adapt it directly because they fear the fan reaction.

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Posted (edited)

Overall, 14 and I enjoyed it. Quite funny, though I might've laughed the hardest when 14 slid out of [edit] her chair as Valkyrie kissed that Goddess' hand. 

Pacing issues for sure though. 

 

Post credit scene: Heracles is going to be something lol

Edited by JGP
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6 hours ago, sifth said:

Did some of the comedy in this film seem kind of dated to anyone? Like I felt like we were getting jokes that were meant to imply characters were either gay/bi or "unmanly", like Zeus wearing a shirt or Thor being naked, or the look Thor gives to Quill when they part ways. Like, why are these things suppose to make me laugh, I don't get it.

Huh? There was no gay jokes there. There was nothing unmanly about Thor being naked (quite the opposite), the looks he gives Quill is because he wanted him and the rest of the Guardians to miss him as much as he would miss them, when they clearly can't stand Thor on the ship anymore, which he is completely oblivious to.

 

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Just now, Winterfell is Burning said:

Huh? There was no gay jokes there. There was nothing unmanly about Thor being naked (quite the opposite), the looks he gives Quill is because he wanted him and the rest of the Guardians to miss him as much as he would miss them, when they clearly can't stand Thor on the ship anymore, which he is completely oblivious to.

 

Yup, you just know Thor is absolutely exhausting. Even Drax wasn't feeling the mancrush anymore.

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7 hours ago, Werthead said:

I've seen the argument that comic characters are often more iconic than any individual story: Iron Man, Spider-Man, Captain America etc are all cumulatively fantastic characters, but their origin stories are dated and of their time. Sta Lee was a genius comic book writer by the standards of 1961, but directly putting his dialogue in the mouths of people in the 21st Century would feel too cheesy.

Yeah, but the difference is that the current incarnation of Thor, beyond pure aesthetics, is pretty unrecognizable from the comics. It's been a while since Ive read any but he's always been a pretty stoic strongman, aside from a few "verily's" and "Thou's" and so on. He was almost never a comedic character. The guy they have now is more similar to the MCU Hercules*; who is almost a parody of Thor. Gods know what they're going to do with the MCU Hercules**.

So is that it? Make them goofy caricatures that spout pithy one-liners and smash things from time to time and the CBM commentariat is happy? OK then.

*"The Incredible Hercules" comic run is amazing. Loved it.

** Did Zeus call him "Hercules" or "Heracles" at the end of the movie? Because if it was the former, definitely no monument for you, Russell. 

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