spoilers [Spoilers] Episode 101 Discussion

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

2 minutes ago, Werthead said:

It would be interesting because any show that built off the end of GoT and was the brainchild of someone other than GRRM would presumably really have no bearing on the books at all and would be almost completely its own thing.

Again, I absolutely don't want it to happen myself, but it might be popular with the general audience. Which is what matters in the end.

[Frey family reunion]

9 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I think there is a pretty big weirdo vibe there since, apparently, black Valyrians are normal ... but a guy looking like everybody else to my eye is immediately recognized by Alicent as 'Dornish'.

I think you’re right if they never attempt an explanation.  I do think they need to address it and explain it.  

Because it makes a ton of sense that the Velaryons would have had more contact with foreign cultures than the other Houses.  So it seems possible perhaps that Corlys’ father could have visited the Summer Islands and fallen for a high born woman there, married her and brought her back to Driftmark.  

Which in turn might give an additional motivation for a lot of the lords to have voted against Rhaenys’ claim or Laenor’s claim.  Not only is the claim from a woman, there might be an additional element of prejudice against Corly‘ mother being a Summer Islander.

[zajaz]

So what makes Criston Cole look 'Dornish'?. I don't know about you, guys, but if someone told me Criston was Alicent's cousin from her father's side (Hobert Hightower's son), I'd believe it.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

2 minutes ago, zajaz said:

So what makes Criston Cole look 'Dornish'?. I don't know about you, guys, but if someone told me Criston was Alicent's cousin from her father's side (Hobert Hightower's son), I'd believe it.

Criston looks about as Dornish as Jon Snow does.

[The Bard of Banefort]

13 minutes ago, zajaz said:

So what makes Criston Cole look 'Dornish'?. I don't know about you, guys, but if someone told me Criston was Alicent's cousin from her father's side (Hobert Hightower's son), I'd believe it.

He’s swarthy, that’s it.

I say this as someone who never minded them changing the Velaryons: by making Cole Dornish, the show can pretend it’s more diverse than it is, since Dorne is the only canonically non-white kingdom (granted, this will probably backfire in a few episodes when Cole brutally murders a gay man, but that’s another story). 

[Ingelheim]

By the way, the showrunners have given an interview explaining how they got the meaning of ASOIAF as a prophecy: from Martin itself. Though they changed some things:

https://www.insider.com/house-of-the-dragon-asoiaf-prophecy-reveal-came-from-george-rr-martin-2022-8

[The Bard of Banefort]

Do any of you have non-book reader friends or family who watched the show? What did they think?

[zajaz]

The only way I can see Criston Cole being Dornish is if he is a Stony Dornishman, although I don't think GoT ever said that were three 'types' of Dornish people. So far as show viewers only are concerned, they must think that all Dornish look Mediterranean.

[xander_blackfyre]

One of the things I enjoyed about the show was how the Red Keep seemed so full of life.  When watching Game of Thrones I always got the sense that it was a huge empty castle.  Outside of a few times it seemed like the main players were the only ones in the Red Keep.  When Rhaenyra gets back from flying and gets home she passed numerous servants and guards along he way to see her mother.  

I really liked this version of Viserys as opposed to the book version of him.

Daemon was one favorite characters from the books but I tempered my expectations of him for the show as most of the time those expectations can never be lived up to.  What I really did like about him was that he was the only person who told Viserys the truth.  He also does not seem to be the power hungry second coming of Maegor that he is made out to be.  Viserys was right that he lacked the patience to rule and I don't think his ambition in the show is the iron throne, he just wants to be as close to it as he can be.

[Ingelheim]

Just now, zajaz said:

The only way I can see Criston Cole being Dornish is if he is a Stony Dornishman, although I don't think GoT ever said that were three 'types' of Dornish people. So far as show viewers only are concerned, they must think that all Dornish look Mediterranean.

Well I would say, as a Spaniard myself, that the actor playing him definitely looks like one of us. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

3 minutes ago, zajaz said:

The only way I can see Criston Cole being Dornish is if he is a Stony Dornishman, although I don't think GoT ever said that were three 'types' of Dornish people. So far as show viewers only are concerned, they must think that all Dornish look Mediterranean.

Isn’t he more Salty?

[zajaz]

14 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Well I would say, as a Spaniard myself, that the actor playing him definitely looks like one of us. 

As a Latin American whose maternal great-grandfather was Spanish, I'm even more pale looking that the actor portraying Cole, so I agree with you in full. The issue is that GoT had this simplified version of Dorne, where all Dornish people look almost Arab (or at least what most people think of when they hear the word 'Arab'), and nothing else.

Edited August 23, 2022 by zajaz

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

I think they also did it for the sake of simplicity. They probably thought that casual viewers would confuse Dorne and the Dornish Marches.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

[Syri0_F0rel]

Ser Criston Cole is a Stormlander.  House Cole is a vassal house to House Dondarrion.  House Dondarrion is an enemy of Dorne. 

Show:

"What do you know about this Ser Criston Cole, Ser Harrold?"

"I'm told Ser Criston is common-born, son of Lord Dondarrion's steward."

Then when he removes his helm:

"Gods. He's Dornish." 

That does not make sense. 

[zajaz]

All I will say is that, barring Oberyn (and maybe Doran), and seeing Criston is now Dornish, I don't think people are going to end up with a good impression of Dornish characters, unless they made Cole a more sympathetic figure, which, depending on which route the writers choose to take, of course, could end up backfiring and having people blaming Rhaenyra for the whole affair.

Edited August 23, 2022 by zajaz

[Syri0_F0rel]

1 minute ago, zajaz said:

All I will say is that, barring Oberyn (and maybe Doran), and seeing Criston is now Dornish, I don't think people are going to end up with a good impression of Dornish characters, unless they made Cole a more sympathetic figure, which, depending on which route the writers choose to take, of course, could end up backfiring and having people blaming Rhaenyra for the whole affair.

If Criston Cole is now Dornish, then I guess Beric Dondarrion is now retroactively Dornish. 

[The Bard of Banefort]

I’ll say this for GOT fans—and I think I can say this as someone who has watched and read all the available material—they really are the most sensitive, overly defensive fans out there. If someone makes even the smallest critique (i.e. the wigs are bad, there’s too much incest), you immediately get “THIS ISN’T REAL LIFE, THERE ARE DRAGONS IN IT!” or “THIS IS AN ADULT SHOW, GO WATCH DISNEY INSTEAD!”

[The Bard of Banefort]

4 minutes ago, Syri0_F0rel said:

If Criston Cole is now Dornish, then I guess Beric Dondarrion is now retroactively Dornish. 

I think it’s more that his parents or grandparents were Dornish. I’m sure he’ll tell Rhaenyra his story at some point.

[zajaz]

8 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I think it’s more that his parents or grandparents were Dornish. I’m sure he’ll tell Rhaenyra his story at some point.

Just a few minutes ago I read an interview with the actor playing Cole in which he says he indeed comes form Dorne, but wasn't born there.

Link:https://hype.my/2022/287132/interview-fabien-frankel-studied-dornish-history-for-his-role-as-criston-cole/

Relevant part:

Q: How did you prepare for the role?

I read up on Dornish history and found they were looked upon almost as the Irish used to be looked upon in England. The Dornish are really spoken ill of by people in Westeros. I come from there, I look Dornish but I wasn’t born there, so I don’t speak with a Dornish accent. I felt Ser Criston Cole is certainly looked down upon by characters like Daemon and people from the wealthy families in Westeros.

Edited August 23, 2022 by zajaz

[C.T. Phipps]

16 minutes ago, Syri0_F0rel said:

Ser Criston Cole is a Stormlander.  House Cole is a vassal house to House Dondarrion.  House Dondarrion is an enemy of Dorne. 

Show:

"What do you know about this Ser Criston Cole, Ser Harrold?"

"I'm told Ser Criston is common-born, son of Lord Dondarrion's steward."

Then when he removes his helm:

"Gods. He's Dornish." 

That does not make sense. 

The idea that people of an ethnicity don't live in their ethnicity's homeland is....not a new idea.

  

10 minutes ago, Syri0_F0rel said:

If Criston Cole is now Dornish, then I guess Beric Dondarrion is now retroactively Dornish. 

No, it means a Dondarrion's ancestor's steward was Dornish or had a Dornish wife.

Edited August 23, 2022 by C.T. Phipps