spoilers [Spoilers] Episode 101 Discussion

[Mark Antony]

31 minutes ago, Crona said:

 I think it does, Maekar killed Baelor during a tourney and I believe a few others died brutally in that tourney. 

Aerion killing that horse reminded me of Daemons move 

[Lord Varys]

Must say I really don't like that 'decadence' route they take, nor the apparent symbolism of Viserys' infection, expressing the rot in the Realm, etc. I'd have preferred it if they had been courageous enough to show an actual era of peace and splendor, where there aren't lots of real problems. You can first show something intact before you destroy it utterly, you don't have to start with it being kind of rotten from the start.

Viserys cutting himself when banishing Daemon was a good touch considering it kind of symbolizes him cutting away a piece of himself, etc.

Regarding the erotic murals - it shows how prudish and Victorian people are becoming these days when that's a sign of decadence. I context I imagine we can credit Queen Aemma with those decorations, considering Queen Alicent will do away with them later on to make the Red Keep properly chaste and pious.

[Zorral]

24 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Given what a viper's pit the court of KL is, it's completely logical that those who want to be part of it need balls.

An early version of Eight Ball Billiards: Small Balls, it made me think.  Metaphoric for the small council and this fantasy 'verse,

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I mean, Marwyn must know something about that, right? 

And Melisandre. I guess the Targaryens did a bad job of keeping the secret within the family.

[Caligula_K3]

I'm coming at this show from the perspective of someone who's read the ASoiAF books and Dunk and Egg stories many times, but who's never read much of Fire and Blood because I'm not a fan of GRRM's Targaryen histories, and don't care much for the Targaryens in general.

I'd give the first episode a solid 7/10. Visually it was stunning - the dragons and sets were very cool. In terms of  design, I'm a little disappointed by the costumes, which look very "stereotypical medieval fantasy," whereas Game of Thrones had a more unique style.

I got a little invested in the plot and some of the characters, especially King Viserys and his daughter. The childbirth scene was grueling and horrific in all the right ways. The tourney was fun and well shot, but also a little ridiculous in the extent of its violence.

The city watch scene was weird.

It's hard for me to objectively compare this to the first episode of Game of Thrones, since I went into that knowing who all the characters were, and it's hard for me to compare this to reading Game of Thrones for the first time, since that was almost twenty years ago now (...damn). But I agree with some of the criticisms I read in the reviews, or at least am worried about some of them. ASoIaF and GoT were always grim series, but they had a sense of fun and humour that's almost completely absent here - the show absolutely needs a character like Tyrion or Varys to liven things up. A lot of the characters seem pretty one note (though of course future episodes will develop them): still, so far the impression is a lot of very serious Tagaryens and Targaryen adjacents. And I do worry about what a tight focus this series seems to have on Targaryens and Kings Landing politics. The politics is a big part of the reason I love the book series, but it's only one flavour among many.

But again, a decent start to the show, and it's reassuring that there's a sense of quality in the presentation and acting that's missing from shows like Wheel of Time or The Last Kingdom. Hopefully the plot and characters will draw me in and I'll enjoy future episodes more.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Caligula_K3

[butterweedstrover]

58 minutes ago, Ran said:

Overstating a bit much when they claim "no primary relationship is insulated from erotic desire." Viserys is not interested in his daughter that way, nor is Daemon in his brother.

Very weird.

Viserys doesn’t seem to be interested in his daughter at all.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, butterweedstrover said:

Tdlr?

She says that there’s no one to root for and that the incest makes almost every relationship feel creepy and predatory.

[The Bard of Banefort]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Must say I really don't like that 'decadence' route they take, nor the apparent symbolism of Viserys' infection, expressing the rot in the Realm, etc. I'd have preferred it if they had been courageous enough to show an actual era of peace and splendor, where there aren't lots of real problems. You can first show something intact before you destroy it utterly, you don't have to start with it being kind of rotten from the start.

Viserys cutting himself when banishing Daemon was a good touch considering it kind of symbolizes him cutting away a piece of himself, etc.

Regarding the erotic murals - it shows how prudish and Victorian people are becoming these days when that's a sign of decadence. I context I imagine we can credit Queen Aemma with those decorations, considering Queen Alicent will do away with them later on to make the Red Keep properly chaste and pious.

It seems unlikely that the devoutly religious Alysanne would have had those tapestries hanging in the Red Keep (especially considering that her closest friends were septas). Her daughter Alyssa, maybe. But Jaehaerys and Alysanne were quite traditional in many respects. We saw how well Jaehaerys handled the idea of his daughter having premarital sex.

Edited August 22, 2022 by The Bard of Banefort

[Ran]

Pornographic are not the norm in public halls of power in Westeros at any point in the books, as noted by Loras remarking on Renly's fun books from the Free Cities, and the dirty little secret that was the Caution.

They have definitely gone well above and beyond what would be normal for Westeros. Like I said, it's not just erotic art in the private chambers of kings and queens -- that I could see. But later you'll notice them in the central hallways of the Red Keep too. Its very in-your-face and its very odd.

 

[apovsic]

I'll admit that c-section scene with Aemma was the hardest thing thing to watch in whole HotD&GoT. I prefer watching 10 dick chopping scene in a row ...

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

8 minutes ago, Ran said:

They have definitely gone well above and beyond what would be normal for Westeros. Like I said, it's not just erotic art in the private chambers of kings and queens -- that I could see. But later you'll notice them in the central hallways of the Red Keep too. Its very in-your-face and its very odd.

Didn't GRRM approve everything for the show, though?

[SeanF]

19 minutes ago, Ran said:

Pornographic are not the norm in public halls of power in Westeros at any point in the books, as noted by Loras remarking on Renly's fun books from the Free Cities, and the dirty little secret that was the Caution.

They have definitely gone well above and beyond what would be normal for Westeros. Like I said, it's not just erotic art in the private chambers of kings and queens -- that I could see. But later you'll notice them in the central hallways of the Red Keep too. Its very in-your-face and its very odd.

 

It's more Imperial Rome than medieval Europe.

[Ran]

11 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Didn't GRRM approve everything for the show, though?

No. He's not there going over every set decoration and production design decision. He is not the show runner, Ryan and Miguel are. So for example, he asked them, lets see the heraldry and color again, and they did that, but it's not like he was individually approving every coat of arm and so on.

 

I'm sure he chuckled when he saw the stuff, but in the end  this all feeds into their doing a ... hyper-reality version of Viserys's reign, one where peace and prosperity is depicted as extravagant decadence. Which is fine.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Ran

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 minute ago, Ran said:

No. He's not there going over every set decoration and production design decision. He is not the show runner, Ryan and Miguel are. So for example, he asked them, lets see the heraldry and color again, and they did that, but it's not like he was individually approving every coat of arm and so on.

Okay, I'm just trying to understand what it means when he says that he is "very much involved".

[Zorral]

17 minutes ago, Ran said:

you'll notice them in the central hallways of the Red Keep too. Its very in-your-face and its very odd.

I thought it was, you know, supposed to be the art we see in Europe after the rediscovery of the ancient and classic works of art and sculpture, all the way through the Renaissance, Reubens, the neo-classical, etc.  The naked body/bodies reflecting that tradition that made it ART, not illustration.  Since the editing is so quick I never noticed those paintings as porn. In the brothel, surely, but honestly those scenes I only watched the principal bloviator, and not much of that either.  Because we really do no need Big Announcements pronounced naked among naked writhing bodies to make a plot.  Quite the opposite. One sort of feels nobody involved here has any actual education in anything that has to do with history, art, etc.  OTOH, in public spaces the art would be overtly political and glorifying the country's and its leaders prowess, deeds and so on out of the past and very near past.  Naval battles and so on. Nevertheless one does see a lot of historical art out of the ages mentioned in which bodies are generally naked except for holding a sword, a random piece of armor, and so on.

[Zorral]

5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It's more Imperial Rome than medieval Europe.

The contours are are very Renaissance, from Reubens, to Venetian, to Michelangelo, etc. 

[Daeron the Daring]

There are many things I like, so I'm gonna name them ones I don't:

-They made Viserys dirty with the death of Aemma. (I'm kinda blocking this out of my mind, so yeah, dont talk to me of that)

-Caraxes looks like a kite.

-We won't get to see Aemma interact with other characters. Would've loved to see her with Rhaenys, Otto and especially Daemon. This is probably the most frustrating thing to me.

Sometimes the CGI was a bit off, but I'm somehow comfortable with that.

And now I'm gonna start reading the comments.

[Ran]

Naked bodies and vaguely erotic, suggestive scenes, yes. The art on display here is very graphically sexual in a way more akin to Greek erotic vases for symposia than the erotic nudes of the Renaissance.

@Takiedevushkikakzvezdy

He helped break the story, basically structuring the series and how it would go. He commented on the drafts of scripts. He had a say in casting. He made requests and suggestions. He was able to argue against things, or at least try and argue his view. I think he's more involved than he was in the first season of GoT. One of his assistants, Ti Mikkel, was a writer's assisstant and no doubt helped to present his view of things. 

 

But the show runners are the ones who have final say, always, and they're the ones involved in the day-to-day decision making. I am sure George was called up regularly about scripts, background, story beats, etc., but they were not going to consult him on just how an orgy should look (in a brothel or on a wall), IMO.

[sifth]

So is the rot on Viserys back suppose to foreshadow that he's dying already? Seems a little early to be doing that, IMO

I will say him cutting himself on the Iron Throne is a nice touch.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

5 minutes ago, sifth said:

So is the rot on Viserys back suppose to foreshadow that he's dying already? Seems a little early to be doing that, IMO

Some say that it's symbolism for the rot inside the Targaryen dynasty.

Edited August 22, 2022 by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy