spoilers [Spoilers] Episode 101 Discussion

[DMC]

I haven't read any of this thread, just want a platform to write out my thoughts.  I was pleasantly surprised they put more focus on Aemma's death than frankly Martin ever did.  It worked well.  Like, really well and unexpected.  Viserys effectively killing her to try to get an heir entirely makes sense and was as wrenching as it should have been. 

I also really liked the actress playing young Rhaenyra.  Aging her up against canon looks like the right and smart call to me.  It made the dynamic between her and Viserys a lot more immediately interesting than if she was eight, in which case it's kinda lame.

I still don't like Matt Smith as Daemon but I think they're treating the character as they should.  The throne room scene with Viserys worked for me.  On the negative side I do agree with anyone saying this was just so safe.  They took what they knew worked with GoT and gave it another iteration, for the most part - the tourney, the small council meeting, the exposition.  It smacks of formulaic, bordering on a straight-up procedural.  But that was kinda built into my expectations.  Overall, I'm fine with safe and comfortable for now and will watch the next episode.

ETA:  Oh, I really didn't like at the end how they tried to shoehorn the Others/White Walkers and subsequently the Starks into it to try to build up the importance of Rhaenyra being made heir.  Just let it go guys.

Edited August 22, 2022 by DMC

[butterweedstrover]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

ETA:  Oh, I really didn't like at the end how they tried to shoehorn the Others/White Walkers and subsequently the Starks into it to try to build up the importance of Rhaenyra being made heir.  Just let it go guys.

lol

[C.T. Phipps]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

I still don't like Matt Smith as Daemon but I think they're treating the character as they should.  The throne room scene with Viserys worked for me.  On the negative side I do agree with anyone saying this was just so safe.  They took what they knew worked with GoT and gave it another iteration, for the most part - the tourney, the small council meeting, the exposition.  It smacks of formulaic, bordering on a straight-up procedural.  But that was kinda built into my expectations.  Overall, I'm fine with safe and comfortable for now and will watch the next episode.

I feel like them playing it safe is 100% deliberate as the sheer amount of vititrol and bad taste for the ending of Game of Thrones means that the primary purpose of House of the Dragon is not to be a super success by itself but to smooth over the bad feelings. I believe HBO is less interested in its success by itself than the idea it can rebuild burned bridges with the fandom to make a franchise like the MCU. If it's about 80% as successful as Game of Thrones during even the lean years, it'll be more than great.

[butterweedstrover]

Playing it safe is fine if not a bit boring. However there were obvious opportunities to energize the dialogue and acting. 

When Criston Cole won that could have been treated like a major surprise, focus on the crowd's reaction as well as those of the relevant characters. Instead it was passed off as minor event that gained a collective shrug. It makes for a weak introduction for the character and leaves the substance of the episode feeling very lukewarm. 

I wanted something like in Gladiator ("are you not entertained") but instead for most people not paying close attention he may have come off as a generic side character. 

[C.T. Phipps]

2 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Playing it safe is fine if not a bit boring. However there were obvious opportunities to energize the dialogue and acting. 

When Criston Cole won that could have been treated like a major surprise, focus on the crowd's reaction as well as those of the relevant characters. Instead it was passed off as minor event that gained a collective shrug. It makes for a weak introduction for the character and leaves the substance of the episode feeling very lukewarm. 

I wanted something like in Gladiator ("are you not entertained") but instead for most people not paying close attention he may have come off as a generic side character. 

I feel like the episode needed a bit more room to breathe as we actually skipped quite a bit. They should have gone full movie-length with 1:30 minutes. The extra fifteen would have helped matters a bit and given some more time to develop characters. I think they did a fine job with what they had and we're one episode into an entire season of what is a multi-season arc. It may be too much to ask to have everything ready and willing on display.

Something I noticed on rewatch is Daemon's cheating is only to Otto's son. So it was deliberately tweaking the Hand.

Edited August 22, 2022 by C.T. Phipps

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

On the negative side I do agree with anyone saying this was just so safe.  They took what they knew worked with GoT and gave it another iteration, for the most part - the tourney, the small council meeting, the exposition.  It smacks of formulaic, bordering on a straight-up procedural. 

I mean, what were they supposed to do? It's difficult to adapt an ASOIAF story without these things.

[butterweedstrover]

7 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I mean, what were they supposed to do? It's difficult to adapt an ASOIAF story without these things.

There wasn't much meat to the formula. I don't mind the sequence of events but more so how little flavor is added to the dialogue and the clipped pace the episode has trying to hit every plot beat without giving it room to breath. 

It leaves the skeleton bare and the formulaic nature obvious whereas more color and texture would have kept the underlining foundation hidden and feeling less simplistic 

8 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I feel like the episode needed a bit more room to breathe as we actually skipped quite a bit. They should have gone full movie-length with 1:30 minutes. The extra fifteen would have helped matters a bit and given some more time to develop characters. I think they did a fine job with what they had and we're one episode into an entire season of what is a multi-season arc. It may be too much to ask to have everything ready and willing on display.

Something I noticed on rewatch is Daemon's cheating is only to Otto's son. So it was deliberately tweaking the Hand.

Part of it doesn't necessary have to be run time, but the number of seasons. If this season was just up to the coronation there may not have been needed as much ground to cover. Frankly I thought the tourney should have had its own dedicated episode but as is the thing was over and done in a blink of the eye. 

[sifth]

Man that new throne looks so cool. You could tell they had a bigger budget as well, with all of the horses in the jousting scenes. The only thing I didn't enjoy were the dragons, which I thought looked a little strange. Over all though I loved the entire cast and thought they all did a great job.

[C.T. Phipps]

Honestly, I was surprised they did such a flashback.

I always felt the show should begin with Viserys death and everything else is backstory like the Rebellion.

[sifth]

2 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Honestly, I was surprised they did such a flashback.

I always felt the show should begin with Viserys death and everything else is backstory like the Rebellion.

They have to start this early. They're turning 300 pages of a history book, into 5 seasons of a tv show, lol

[chrisdaw]

The problem with F&B from an adaption stand point is that it has little joy. The fun and sentiment they did add will serve the story well but they could use far more.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

3 minutes ago, chrisdaw said:

The problem with F&B from an adaption stand point is that it has little joy. The fun and sentiment they did add will serve the story well but they could use far more.

ASOIAF in general doesn't have much joy, though.

[chrisdaw]

2 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

ASOIAF in general doesn't have much joy, though.

There is some though, early or through memories, and they do a lot of heavy lifting. Stark family memories, Jon forming his friendship with Sam, Dany coming to love the Dothraki life, Jaime and Tyrion broing, they're the scenes that endear the characters.

[Corvinus85]

More on Aegon's dream of ice and fire - I find it odd to see a prophetic dream that ultimately looked so far into the future. I don't recall any other examples. Daenys the Dreamer foretold the Doom twelve years ahead of the destruction. Daenerys's dreams are obviously foretelling stuff that's going to happen only months or a couple of years into the future. I suppose there isn't necessarily a rule about it.

[Relic]

4 hours ago, The hairy bear said:

I wonder what’s the point with the spheres from the council table. I can’t guess what they are trying to do with that.

Wondered about that as well. Does anyone have any ideas? Looking at you @Ran 

The Song of Ice and Fire prophesy sort of tracks based on what we know about Rhaegar's obsession with it, but it still felt a bit silly. Like, "Hey I have this secret about the world ending at some point in the future but I'm only telling you."  Weird strategy, that. I did enjoy the "Promise me" line, and the constant attention given to the dagger. 

Edited August 22, 2022 by Relic

[Gertrude]

8 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

I mean, I’m pretty sure they are. There’s no point in having an orgy, or introducing Mysaria during sex rather than any other time, if it wasn’t to titillate.

Well, just seeing naked bodies is titillating enough for most. It's not like I expect them to go out of their way to make it sexy with perfect lighting and angles, etc. That is not the purpose of the sex scenes. The quick and easy flash of skin - yeah, that's the intentionally titillating part and why they like to go there in this franchise.

[Ser Drewy]

I thought it was okay. The C-section scene was powerful. However, none of the characters were immediately interesting like the Starks or Tyrion, or Dany. I thought some of the violence was a bit tryhard - how many faces did we see mashed in? - and I don't understand why the tourney got murderous, or why it was allowed to continue. The dragons looked good. Truthfully I kinda left it feeling like not a lot happened in the hour. 

I lol'd at the Long Night prophecy. The bad aroma of GOT is still there and all I can think is: yep, the dark winter is coming... for one day. 

[Relic]

9 minutes ago, Ser Drewy said:

. I thought some of the violence was a bit tryhard - how many faces did we see mashed in? - 

The gore was definitely unnecessary, imo. Come to think of it the entire thing lacked...beauty. I averted my eyes a bit too often, and other than Harrenhall wasn't struck with wonder or admiration for mostly anything i saw. 

[Mithras]

What is the hook? That awful Aegon retcon?  

[Frey family reunion]

20 minutes ago, Relic said:

The Song of Ice and Fire prophesy sort of tracks based on what we know about Rhaegar's obsession with it, but it still felt a bit silly. Like, "Hey I have this secret about the world ending at some point in the future but I'm only telling you."  Weird strategy, that. I did enjoy the "Promise me" line, and the constant attention given to the dagger. 

I think it's kind of an open question, how far back the Targaryens' interest spearheading the Battle for the Dawn goes.  The Prince that was Promised Prophecy seems to be directly tied into the Battle for the Dawn.  At least that's what Aemon seems to believe.  When Melisandre talked about the coming Night, Aemon asked her where was the Prince that was Promised.

Now in F&B, Aegon the Conqueror seems to show little interest in what's happening in the North and beyond the Wall.  So I am skeptical at least that their interest goes that far back.  

My personal pet theory is that the Prince that was Promised prophecy was a Rhoynish prophecy which was inherited by the Martells and then fully adopted by the Targaryens when Daeron married his Dornish princess.  And the Prince that was Promised prophecy itself seems to be a retelling of the Azor Ahai prophecy from the East.  My thought is the "dragon having three heads" might be something more in line with a Valyrian belief.  I think Aemon and Rhaegar may have been combining a lot of past prophecy from various cultures.