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Assuming R+L=J and it's Legitimate, what will Jon's Reaction be when he finds out?


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How do you think Jon would react after the big reveal? I think there could be some denial at first. I don't think he'd hate Ned though, he'd understand why he did it and still view him as his true father, even if he wasn't his biological one, because he raised him. But the new reality would take some getting used to, I imagine.

Edited by Craving Peaches
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I think that it will be a big shock for him, and a great source of angst and doubt for him. 

He will surely take a long time to get used to it, and while he may accept Rhaegar as his biological father, I think that he will only identity himself more strongly as a Stark and acknowledges Ned's efforts and sacrifices for him, viewing him even more strongly as his true father.

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Well, that depends. I like to imagine that he's gonna find it out after many others already know. It would make quite an interesting scenario if people (of significance to him, obviously) wouldn't know how to deal with this information. Otherwise, he living with this tought alone, or in the need to spread it to everybody would just be weird to me.

And I explicitly mean Daenerys in this case. Imagine: They meet while she knows it (even if she doesn't totally believe it), but he doesn't.

Anyway, I think this will be something he'll have a hard time acceping, but once he does, it'll give him a great relief of some sort. You know, he always wanted to be a Stark, but that's just the same as being legitimate, aka not a bastards. He hates himself for being a bastards, not for not being a Stark, and being a child of Lyanna and Rhaegar is not an attack on his Stark identity, but rather an extention of it. It doesn't undermine Ned's legacy on him, it explains why he had to deal with so much shit all his life.

Oh, so we're not talking about Jon being a legitimate son of Lyanna and Rhaegar? Well, that's why he has to be, to make him develop emotionally. Otherwise, it would be like "Great, I'm not a Stark bastard, I'm a Targaryen one. So happy for it."

Let's all be honest here. Despite the (many) hints that Jon may end up as king, he won't (those hints may only be hinting that he's a rightful heir/pretender of the IT). And his hidden identity has to offer something for the character, otherwise it's just another punch, only this time from the opposite side.

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1 hour ago, Daeron the Daring said:

Oh, so we're not talking about Jon being a legitimate son of Lyanna and Rhaegar? Well, that's why he has to be, to make him develop emotionally. Otherwise, it would be like "Great, I'm not a Stark bastard, I'm a Targaryen one. So happy for it."

Let's all be honest here. Despite the (many) hints that Jon may end up as king, he won't (those hints may only be hinting that he's a rightful heir/pretender of the IT). And his hidden identity has to offer something for the character, otherwise it's just another punch, only this time from the opposite side.

I am firmly of the opinion that Jon is legitimate because otherwise there's far less of a point to the reveal - he's a bastard either way.

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36 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I am firmly of the opinion that Jon is legitimate because otherwise there's far less of a point to the reveal - he's a bastard either way.

That's my point too. He's not gonna be king (if only), and thus his real identity has to give him something, which should be legitimacy, something he wanted his entire life.

If he happened to be someone else's mistake, then he basically gets nothing back in return of the things he faced due to his bastardhood. He may ride a dragon as a bastard too, but that's not what we want from him.

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I don't think that he will be recognized as legitimate by many, even if Rhaegar pulled a trick and somehow convinced a septon to marry him and Lyanna it will still be viewed as illegal by many based upon the fact that polygamy marriage is illegal in Westeros and that Rhaegar's marriage with Elia Martell can't be cancelled or ignored.

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1 hour ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

polygamy marriage is illegal in Westeros

It's a bit iffy because if the 'Doctrine of Exceptionalism' is still in place then the marriage is valid, because going by that Polygamy is allowed only for Targaryens. Not that I like that particular doctrine.

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3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I do want to see Snowhead riding a dragon though. Even if it's just once.

That's some sort of a certainty to me. But Jon riding a dragon is like my son (I don't have one) getting his driver's license. Cool thing, really happy for it, but doesn't change him. Puts more pressure on him, which may lead to more seriousness, but Jon is already serious enough.

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1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

It's a bit iffy because if the 'Doctrine of Exceptionalism' is still in place then the marriage is valid, because going by that Polygamy is allowed only for Targaryens. Not that I like that particular doctrine.

That Exceptionalism doctrine never concerned polygamy, only incest. No Targaryen monarch ever tried to do polygamy after Aegon the Conqueror knowing how much of a sour point it was in Westeros, so the practice was basically self-banned. 

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21 minutes ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

That Exceptionalism doctrine never concerned polygamy, only incest. No Targaryen monarch ever tried to do polygamy after Aegon the Conqueror knowing how much of a sour point it was in Westeros, so the practice was basically self-banned. 

I thought it covered polygamy as well...

Anyway I still think it is a legal grey area.

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The reveal would mean he is the prince of the prophecy. Or at least a likely candidate. I'm not sure how he would react to that. Probably that it is a duty he must assume. Like Stannis did. But it has nothing to with legitimacy.

The Free Folk doesn't believe in birthright. And neither Jon it seems. So I don't think he would care for the Iron Throne or such king nonsense.

Anyway, I believe he will return sufficiently different, and with the Others' problem on his doorstep, that his position in the great houses of Westeros will not matter. And after the Long Night, my guess is, there will not be an Iron Throne and one unique kingdom to claim.

Edited by BalerionTheCat
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Main duty of members of Kingsguard is to protect lives of king and royal family. Besides any possible orders of Rhaegar became void when he died. So the fact that 3 KG were still in Tower of Joy almost certainly means that they thought that Lyanna and her son were members of royal family. Or she was widow of Rhaegar and her son was legitimate. After all those 3 KG almost certainly would not have tried to stop Ned if Lyanna was only mistress of dead prince and if Jon was only bastard.

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I think he'll be devastated. I don't think his thoughts will be about targaryans and dragons and crowns and beautiful women with platinum hair but about his upbringing at Winterfell, his relationship with Cat and the father who wasn't really his father who made him pay the price for living his lie. I think it will be hard to square his relationship with Cat with Ned's relationship with Robert and Ned won't be there to explain himself or even answer. "you mean I had to endure a horrible relationship with my primary caregiver because of a lie that you had to tell your best friend so that he didn't kill me? I had to grow up stigmatized as a bastard to the point where swearing vows of celibacy are preferable to the potential of siring one of my own? Instead of being raised to be a petty noble and future bannerman of Robb's I had to grow up with little better prospects than a prison colony at the edge of the world? Thanks Dad."

Now I think that Jon will get over it and maybe with a little help eventually see Ned's side of things, but I think in the beginning he's going to feel hurt and betrayed more than anything else.

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On 10/7/2022 at 12:53 PM, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I think he'll be devastated. I don't think his thoughts will be about targaryans and dragons and crowns and beautiful women with platinum hair but about his upbringing at Winterfell, his relationship with Cat and the father who wasn't really his father who made him pay the price for living his lie. I think it will be hard to square his relationship with Cat with Ned's relationship with Robert and Ned won't be there to explain himself or even answer. "you mean I had to endure a horrible relationship with my primary caregiver because of a lie that you had to tell your best friend so that he didn't kill me? I had to grow up stigmatized as a bastard to the point where swearing vows of celibacy are preferable to the potential of siring one of my own? Instead of being raised to be a petty noble and future bannerman of Robb's I had to grow up with little better prospects than a prison colony at the edge of the world? Thanks Dad."

Now I think that Jon will get over it and maybe with a little help eventually see Ned's side of things, but I think in the beginning he's going to feel hurt and betrayed more than anything else.

Yup.  This.  His first reaction will be to feel crushed.  I doubt he'll even think about the complications it causes on his Targaryen side...he's going to be emotionally gutted that his "father" let him live a complete lie without ever telling him.

He'll come around - I'd wager Sam will be the one to tie it all together for him...how his father couldn't tell him because of Robert, etc.

Once he processes that, his next thought will be "****," as he realizes he's got Ants in his pants and he technically supersedes her.

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It seems that most people are thinking of the question as: "How will Jon respond to learning he is the true Targaryen heir?"  I 100% believe Jon is Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, but I don't think that will be Jon's reaction at all, and I don't think that is what the story is about.  I don't necessarily think there is a single "Prince Who Was Promised": it could be a false prophecy leading people to do stupid things, or the prophecy is wildly misinterpreted and it isn't what we expect.  But if there is a promised prince from the line Aerys and Rhaella, Jon is that prince.  That's the relevance of Jon's parentage, not his royal birthright.

I also don't think too many people in Westeros (at least those who are Jon's age or younger) care about the "rightful Targaryen heir".  The Targaryens gained the throne by conquest, and they lost the throne by conquest.  In the minds of most Westerosi, the Targaryens don't have a claim to the throne.  Varys is helping Cersei destroy the realm to make a Targaryen restoration more popular, but right now the Baratheons are generally considered the rightful claimants of the throne.

I think Jon's reaction would be entirely about his relationship with his family... and I don't think much will change.  I don't think he would be bitter at Ned for the lie if Ned was still alive... but he isn't so it doesn't matter.  His thoughts about Catelyn would be impacted, but she's dead too (sort of).  Jon would love his cousins as much as he did when they thought they were his half-siblings.  I also don't think he would suddenly decide: "I'm not a Stark; I'm a TARGARYEN".  Even if Rhaegar and Lyanna had a polygamous marriage and he's a "legitimate" Targaryen, that would not change his identity.  I think he will end up with a dragon, but he will also have Ghost (assuming Ghost doesn't die during Jon's resurrection, which is possible).  Warg and dragon-rider both, but he'll still be all Stark in nature.

Edited by StarkTullies
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On 10/7/2022 at 1:53 PM, Aejohn the Conqueroo said:

I think he'll be devastated. I don't think his thoughts will be about targaryans and dragons and crowns and beautiful women with platinum hair but about his upbringing at Winterfell, his relationship with Cat and the father who wasn't really his father who made him pay the price for living his lie. I think it will be hard to square his relationship with Cat with Ned's relationship with Robert and Ned won't be there to explain himself or even answer. "you mean I had to endure a horrible relationship with my primary caregiver because of a lie that you had to tell your best friend so that he didn't kill me? I had to grow up stigmatized as a bastard to the point where swearing vows of celibacy are preferable to the potential of siring one of my own? Instead of being raised to be a petty noble and future bannerman of Robb's I had to grow up with little better prospects than a prison colony at the edge of the world? Thanks Dad."

Now I think that Jon will get over it and maybe with a little help eventually see Ned's side of things, but I think in the beginning he's going to feel hurt and betrayed more than anything else.

I agree that Jon's thoughts will entirely focus on his family upbringing and not his "secret heritage".  But I don't think Jon will feel betrayed that Ned remained friends with the king would have murdered Jon if he knew Jon's real identity... because I don't think Ned and Robert were friends.  Nowhere while reading AGOT did I have the impression that Ned and Robert's friendship was present tense.  Ned turned against Robert after the murder of the Targaryen children and they only "reconciled" after Lyanna's death... meaning that they didn't hate each other anymore, but I don't think their friendship was ever repaired.

I think this quote says it all about what Ned thinks of Robert: "And pray that he is the man I think he is, he finished silently, and not the man I fear he has become."  Their very few happy moments in AGOT were based on nostalgia of when they were friends in their youth.

Ned did the only thing he could do regarding Jon, and I think Jon will understand that.  Also Jon will have found his "purpose" at the Night's Watch by the time he learns the truth about his parentage, and there will be no time to regret the events that led him there.

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His reaction would be "I don't want it".

Since it makes no sense for Jon to be King. He was not raised to be a King, he is not the best leader as his own men stabbed him to death, and Jon has never shown any desire to be a King. He could barely handle being Lord Commander let alone King of the 7 Kingdoms.

You also have the added confusion of Aegon's claim.

So Jon's opinion isn't the only one that matters. In fact, it matters least. 

Aegon has a better claim than Jon as the first born son of Rhaegar. Jon would have no desire to challenge it, as Jon has never even been south of Winterfell. 

Jon Snow truly knows nothing.

Then you have Dany facing one Targaryen trying to take her throne. Throwing another one at Dany is not likely to make her happy. Its another person in the way of her and the throne.

This is in no way playing out like the show.

Other than Jon likely wont be interested in banging some long lost aunt of his, even if Dany tries it.

 

Jon is not fit to be King of Westeros, because Jon was born to be King of the Wildlings. Like his real father, Mance Rayder. This is why the only logical path for Jon, is the one that see's him ending the book with the Wildlings he fought so hard to protect and to lead. Jon will not kneel, and Jon would never ask a free man to kneel.

Edited by AlaskanSandman
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It'll be brought to him by Dany, with the argument he needs to father her child to fulfil a prophecy, and he'll be no thanks, likewise to any crown she'll want him to attempt to take up.

When he thinks it through he'll come to understand that Ned Stark committed treason, betrayed a friend, lied constantly and besmirched his honour to save an innocent child of his own blood, and that'll be the lesson he takes from it and acts upon.

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