Where does all this Stark hate come from?

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Quoth the raven, said:

The decision to command Mance to find Arya was a betrayal.  Jon was going to hide Arya from her husband.  That's a very hostile move against the Boltons.  It was treason. 

You mean her husband the psycho serial rapist serial killer, who likes to skin people alive, that husband? And you think protecting someone from such a husband is wrong and a bad thing? Gotcha.. 

(there goes my 2023 NY resolution)

[LongRider]

52 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

IMO they didn't do the right thing. If they were so against  Jon's decision,  Bowen should have had him arrested. The thing is, he knows he doesn't have much support. He has a few men who'd side with him, but most would side with Jon.

I agree with this, if Jon was so in the wrong, they should have tried other steps to stop him.  Marsh would easily convince Queen Selyse of the need for an arrest, even though she has no true jurisdiction at the Wall.  Instead of trying legal means, Marsh went right to the knives.  Assassination is murder, and wrong. 

[Groo]

17 minutes ago, LongRider said:

I agree with this, if Jon was so in the wrong, they should have tried other steps to stop him.  Marsh would easily convince Queen Selyse of the need for an arrest, even though she has no true jurisdiction at the Wall.  Instead of trying legal means, Marsh went right to the knives.  Assassination is murder, and wrong. 

You're right. Having him arrested and waiting trial could also have potentially defused an explosive situation. Marsh just watched the wildings roar out their approval of Jon and saw how riled up they were. What does he think is going to happen when minutes later he knifes Jon in the middle of the yard? Even if you accept that Marsh thinks Jon is a traitor, he still chose a boneheaded way to deal with it. It's not like Jon was leaving right that minute and had to be stopped immediately.

[Hugorfonics]

5 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I can agree with that. I can usually see both sides but when someone is all one sided I have a tendency to argue as if I'm all on the other side. The reality is though, I know there are some issues with some of Jon's decisions, even some that I think were good decisions.

Lol word. Get swept up, happens to me too. 

My issue with Jon is I don't have one lol. But I do with the NW, so like when I here Jon betrayed the watch it's like hearing George Washington betrayed England. Like, what took you so long?

Not even that I think Jon is incapable of mistakes that borderline cruelty. Like Gillys baby and Janos. I see why he did it I just think it was kinda overdrive and more importantly useless. But Janos won't be my line in the sand lol. I look past Danys 163 crucifixions like I look past some behaviors of Tyrion. Slynt ain't even on the same level.

5 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

What I can't stand is when someone goes on about what a monsterous, psycopathic, killer she is & how she will go on to ravish the realm that I find bothersome. The thing is, she might go on to really mess some folks up, but that isn't all of the story, is it? I just feel like if we are going to make judgements we need to make true ones. She is maybe a little loony but she is also a traumatized little girl

Exactly 

5 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

 

 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

3 hours ago, Chaircat Meow said:

Jon, on the other hand, was killed to prevent him launching an attack it was the sole purpose of the Night's Watch to prevent.

The NW's sole purpose is to prevent an attack on Ramsay? 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

4 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

The decision to command Mance to find Arya was a betrayal.  Jon was going to hide Arya from her husband.  That's a very hostile move against the Boltons.  It was treason

Stop. You don't really believe this. 

Please show me a quote of Jon commanding Mance to find Arya. 

"Was going to.." isn't a crime, this isn't minority report. 

It isn't Arya. 

Arya Stark isn't married. Jeyne Poole is Ramsay's bride, though I doubt that marriage is legal either. 

[Hugorfonics]

5 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Maybe it was Bloodraven I heard & in my own head canon changed it to Bran? It's a possibility. 

Lol nah I've heard both. Brans is undeniably cooler though.

5 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Right?! If it was Bloodraven or Bran, is Quaithe tasked with making Dany lose her mind? Dany was kind of screwed from the beginning right? Like Arya. She was a child with only her ignorant, asshole brother to teach her things, got sold into a marriage to a Dothraki Horse Lord, managed to survive that & it has just kept coming since. 

I love the number Selmy did on her. (Not really shaming him, it was bound to come)

Quote

The truth is, I wanted to watch you for a time before pledging you my sword. To make certain that you were not..."

"...my father's daughter?" If she was not her father's daughter, who was she?

"...mad," he finished. "But I see no taint in you."

"Taint?" Dany bristled.

"I am no maester to quote history at you, Your Grace. Swords have been my life, not books. But every child knows that the Targaryens have always danced too close to madness. Your father was not the first. King Jaehaerys once told me that madness and greatness are two sides of the same coin. Every time a new Targaryen is born, he said, the gods toss a coin in the air and the world holds its to see how it will land.

Wanna play? Heads or Tails? Oh also, Quaithe gets to help.

Like..  what? You know how they say if you call a crazy person crazy they get mad? She's already mad if someone calls her, um, mad. But, definitely rooting for her but would put my money on whatever side of the coin Quaithe is pushing for. (Which I wouldn't for Arya, mainly because of all this maddening baggage)

... Idk... I'm at a loss with Dany. Like it's one thing if voices tell you to burn KL, it's another to listen to them. Then again, for all we know Quaithe may actually be a real, helpful and friendly person which is exactly what she says is. It's not like magic is fake and the apocalypse isn't around the corner after all.

5 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

Yes he is! He seriously cracks me up, has some of the best lines in the series, IMO

Woah! Bold claim lol. He definitely slaughters Cat "only me"

5 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

Right, I can't deny the appeal. Given the choice of marching across the realm to meet other armies in open battle, or watching a bunch of dudes get drunk at a wedding & then mopping them up, I would imagine most wouldn't want to go to battle, at least not initially. But like you said what about the consequences? It very well may escalate things & I think it probably will. Regardless of how much easier it is breaking guest right is a taboo for a reason. The coming books will be interesting if we ever get them lol

It's already terrible, Cat has a few swinging and the rest terrified locked up in their poisoned prizes. Then half of them went with Bolton to fight Stannis, along side all their guests families from the RW. They're fucked.

Yea we'll get em!... I think...Heads or Tails? Wait for something great or go mad?

[LongRider]

I can't stand it anymore, I give up, the haters have worn me down.   

I can prove Jon Snow, Lord Commander of the Night Watch, is a traitor.

Jon was in the stables and farted out loud spooking the horses.   TRAITOR!

Satin didn't polish his boots twice in a row and Jon didn't punish him.   TRAITOR!

Mormont's Raven yelled for "Corn, Corn, Corn!" and Jon gave him oats!   TRAITOR!

It was found out that before Sam left, he read to Jon out loud from some of the scrolls in the wormways.   TRAITOR!

Jon laughed when the baby Monster cried all night and made Queen Selyse angry.   TRAITOR!

Jon was mocking the knights gaurding Queen Selyse and they got embarrassed.    TRAITOR!

It's been rumored that Jon visits Moletown and doesn't pay for services rendered!   TRAITOR!

And lastly, Jon called Bowen Marsh "Old Pomegranate" to his face and Bowen cried and ran away.   TRAITOR!

It's a surprise that more of the NW didn't stab the dopey TRAITOR!

 

 

[SeanF]

11 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I can agree with that. I can usually see both sides but when someone is all one sided I have a tendency to argue as if I'm all on the other side. The reality is though, I know there are some issues with some of Jon's decisions, even some that I think were good decisions. 

For sure, if it was irl Arya would be in need of some intensive inpatient therapy lol . I feel bad for her too, she breaks my heart. I stay worried too. There is definitely a problem there. What I can't stand is when someone goes on about what a monsterous, psycopathic, killer she is & how she will go on to ravish the realm that I find bothersome. The thing is, she might go on to really mess some folks up, but that isn't all of the story, is it? I just feel like if we are going to make judgements we need to make true ones. She is maybe a little loony but she is also a traumatized little girl. It takes the sting out of what she does a little, IMO. 

For sure. 

haha right? Well, I suppose it is true if you believe a person can be someone else's property. 

That last one is true.  I came across someone arguing Daenerys was “worse than the Good Masters” because she “stole their private property” (the slaves).  I find it remarkable that someone can advance such an argument seriously.

There’s a noisy minority of the fandom who get far more worked up over the deaths of slavers than the treatment of their victims.  

[Angel Eyes]

5 hours ago, SeanF said:

That last one is true.  I came across someone arguing Daenerys was “worse than the Good Masters” because she “stole their private property” (the slaves).  I find it remarkable that someone can advance such an argument seriously.

There’s a noisy minority of the fandom who get far more worked up over the deaths of slavers than the treatment of their victims.  

Technically the first 8000 were bought and paid for, it's just that the Astaporian Masters were stupid.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

15 hours ago, Jekse said:

Thank you for your integrity, you really seem like a worthwile person to have a discussion with when you reply like this.

I didn't mean to offend you this subject has just been discussed to death, we aren't likely to agree, & I didn't want to derail the thread. I'm more than happy to have a full discussion in regard to Jon and the NW if you would like, I didn't get the impression you were open to listening but if I'm wrong it's happily so. 

15 hours ago, Jekse said:

''The memory made Arya smile, and after that the darkness held no more terrors for her. The stableboy was dead, she'd killed him, and if he jumped out at her she'd kill him again.''
I don't know, but when someone smiles at the memory of killing someone, that does seem pretty psychopathic to me. Also why are you going into semantics here about whether or not it has been medically diagnosed? It's a medieval fantasy story, of course there won't be any fucking psychologists. Come on. 

Ok but heres the thing you aren't telling the whole story right? It's being taken out of context or at the very least when using the story to point to Arya's lunacy you should tell the whole thing, IMO. The stable boy was the one she encountered when she was trying to get away from KL right? & didn't really even mean to stab him? Maybe she is smiling because she finally feels like she has some control over something in her life? Maybe it helps her not to be scared if she thinks - if he or anyone, jumps out at her she will kill them again. This is what I'm saying, not that she isn't a little loony - she certainly needs some help. My contention is that she isn't inherently evil, she is a child who has been through very traumatic experiences, I would probably be a little loony too. If it gives her a little comfort to believe she is capable of killing those that try to harm her, I'm good with it. 

As for the rest I'm going into semantics about whether or not it has been medically diagnosed because it's a medical diagnosis... 

Not sure why that pushes you to cursing but of course there aren't any psychologists, so what? 

15 hours ago, Jekse said:

What exactly do you mean she had no aim to destroy all the slavers, she literally killed all of the ones she had access to and their children, except for the under twelves. And again with the semantics, the word ''genocide'' has multiple definitions, which you should be aware of, since you apparantly took the effort to google the definition of semantics but not look at the Wikipedia page detailing its controversy, which is highlighted next to it, funnily enough. 

 Of course she didn't have an aim to destroy all the slavers? She ordered the killing of the slavers there, in her presence, not all across the world. She, asfaik, has never expressed a goal to kill all the slavers. She seems to want to end slavery & did kill some slavers but that isn't the same thing, is it? 

15 hours ago, Jekse said:

And how do you not see the hypocrisy in this sentence?? You're acting as if your perspective on the series is correct and if someone has a different view then that's ''just their opinion and it's not fact''.

Not at all. There are things in the series that are up for debate & there are some things that are just fact. For instance, it's arguable whether or not Jon did the right thing but to say "Arya killed the stable boy without flinching" is disingenous. 

She had just ran from someone who was trying to & presumably succeeded in killing Syrio, ran away sobbing in fact. In a panic, looking for an escape. Saw doors splintered, a corpse, didn't know what was happening, where her father was, why the red cloaks had come for her. Went to the stables, saw Hullen "stabbed so many times it looked as if his tunic was patterned with scarlet flowers. More bodies in the stables clearly killed as they were loading up for the return trip to Winterfell. Grabs needle & has escape within her grasp when:

"There she is," a voice hissed close behind her. 

Startled, Arya whirled. A stable boy stood behind her, a smirk on his face, his filthy white undertunic peeking out from beneath a soiled jerkin. His boots were covered with manure, and he had a pitchfork in one hand. "Who are you?" she asked. 

"She don't know me," he said, "but I knows her, oh, yes. The wolf girl." 

"Help me saddle a horse," Arya pleaded, reaching back into the chest, groping for Needle. 

"My father's the Hand of the King, he'll reward you."

"Father's dead," the boy said. He shuffled toward her. "It's the queen who'll be rewarding me. Come here, girl."

"Stay away!" Her fingers closed around Needle's hilt. 

"I says, come." He grabbed her arm, hard. 

 

She stabs him & he dies. 

I don't understand what about this passage would make you read it & say "Arya killed the stable boy without flinching" When that clearly isn't what happened. You are painting it in a light that it wasn't. She did what she had to, to defend herself. Her people are being killed everywhere & she is trying to get away & the stable boy was going to man handle her & take her to the queen. I'll not deny she doesn't spend much time mulling over it but she still has people after her, still needs to escape, can hear horses screaming, didn't know where to go. What should she have done? What would have been the correct thing for an 11 year old girl to do when in this situation? 

"Jon breaks his oath multiple times in the series by f*cking Ygritte and riding south (twice, lmao)"

How is it breaking his oath to sleep with Ygritte? It's been argued she raped him & while I'm on the fence about the whole thing he certainly slept with her to save his own life, whether or not he wanted to. Regardless there are no oaths against having sex, so not sure how this counts. 

He rode south twice? I only remember the once but maybe I'm wrong. When he said he was deserting to go fight with Robb? That's the only time I remember. The LC of the watch at the time advised he didn't break any oath & that if he considered every man that rode to mole's town to partake in the women an oath breaker he wouldn't have any men left. So in essence Jon did nothing more than every other man there. Well, less really because he didn't go to Mole's town & so didn't partake. He rode away & was persuaded to come back. I'm sure he isn't the first. 

When was the other time he rode south? 

"Dany kills 12 year old boys just because they're family of slavers, etc" 

Not really what happened either is it? I'm long winded & this post is long enough already but my point is that I'm not trying to insult you, I'm asking you to explain your stance. You're making claims that aren't supported by the text. 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

12 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Lol word. Get swept up, happens to me too. 

My issue with Jon is I don't have one lol. But I do with the NW, so like when I here Jon betrayed the watch it's like hearing George Washington betrayed England. Like, what took you so long?

Exactly!!! It's a shitty institution. I understand it, it's needed, but it's shitty. 

12 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Not even that I think Jon is incapable of mistakes that borderline cruelty. Like Gillys baby and Janos. I see why he did it I just think it was kinda overdrive and more importantly useless. But Janos won't be my line in the sand lol. I look past Danys 163 crucifixions like I look past some behaviors of Tyrion. Slynt ain't even on the same level.

For sure. Taking Gilly's baby sucked. I get it but like you probably pointless. Yeah, I'm not blind to the fact that Dany killed people, Arya has a kill list she will probably work through, Jon is stubborn & makes plenty of mistakes, etc I just think we gotta look at the whole pic. Screw those slavers, I'm glad she killed them & screw Slynt too! 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

12 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Lol nah I've heard both. Brans is undeniably cooler though.

Haha yeah, I dig it. 

12 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Wanna play? Heads or Tails? Oh also, Quaithe gets to help.

Like..  what? You know how they say if you call a crazy person crazy they get mad? She's already mad if someone calls her, um, mad. But, definitely rooting for her but would put my money on whatever side of the coin Quaithe is pushing for. (Which I wouldn't for Arya, mainly because of all this maddening baggage)

... Idk... I'm at a loss with Dany. Like it's one thing if voices tell you to burn KL, it's another to listen to them. Then again, for all we know Quaithe may actually be a real, helpful and friendly person which is exactly what she says is. It's not like magic is fake and the apocalypse isn't around the corner after all.

Oh I know right? The voices can say whatever, doesn't mean you have to listen. 

 

12 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Woah! Bold claim lol. He definitely slaughters Cat "only me"

Haha well some of the best anyway. This series is such a tresure trove of characters. 

12 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

It's already terrible, Cat has a few swinging and the rest terrified locked up in their poisoned prizes. Then half of them went with Bolton to fight Stannis, along side all their guests families from the RW. They're fucked.

Indeed. It's hard not to root for her though right? She is nuttier than a fruit cake & hell bend on revenge at this point but it's hard not to feel for her after what they did to her & her family. 

12 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yea we'll get em!... I think...Heads or Tails? Wait for something great or go mad?

Such a fine line between the two I think - between genuis & insanity. 

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

 

 Of course she didn't have an aim to destroy all the slavers? She ordered the killing of the slavers there, in her presence, not all across the world. She, asfaik, has never expressed a goal to kill all the slavers. She seems to want to end slavery & did kill some slavers but that isn't the same thing, is it? 

 

"Genocide" would be an anachronistic term in this world, but if we do use the UN's definition "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group" , killing slavers is no more an act of genocide than killing pirates, or killing Lannister soldiers (both of which groups are bound to have teenagers in their ranks). The motivation for killing such people is because of what they have done or will do, not because of their membership of a particular national, ethnic, religious, or racial group.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

11 hours ago, SeanF said:

That last one is true.  I came across someone arguing Daenerys was “worse than the Good Masters” because she “stole their private property” (the slaves).  I find it remarkable that someone can advance such an argument seriously.

There’s a noisy minority of the fandom who get far more worked up over the deaths of slavers than the treatment of their victims.  

Right?! This is what gets me going. We all read the books, we know Dany has made questionable decisions but the books are so good that a great lot of us can understand where she is coming from, even if we think it's a bad decision. 

[Hugorfonics]

10 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

Exactly!!! It's a shitty institution. I understand it, it's needed, but it's shitty. 

Its awful, agreed. Although idk how needed it is, Others havent invaded in thousands of years. They are now but it seems like the NW is really under equipped to handle them anyways.

10 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

For sure. Taking Gilly's baby sucked. I get it but like you probably pointless. Yeah, I'm not blind to the fact that Dany killed people, Arya has a kill list she will probably work through, Jon is stubborn & makes plenty of mistakes, etc I just think we gotta look at the whole pic. Screw those slavers, I'm glad she killed them & screw Slynt too! 

Lol, yea screw him.

10 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

Oh I know right? The voices can say whatever, doesn't mean you have to listen.

Word, its ok to not be fine. In fact, it makes for a better read lol. (at least imo for Tyrion)

10 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

Haha well some of the best anyway. This series is such a tresure trove of characters. 

Like, almost every single one lol. But, at least in terms of great lines everyone can all agree that the three Lannister siblings have the best. 

10 hours ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

Indeed. It's hard not to root for her though right? She is nuttier than a fruit cake & hell bend on revenge at this point but it's hard not to feel for her after what they did to her & her family. 

I never knew I should stop, I always thought the brotherhood was mad cool and while I had mixed feelings about Catleyn, shes still definitely the protagonist. Or the protagonist's protagonist. Why would I now root against her because shes hanging Freys? Like, screw Slynt, but Frey? Lol
Is she crazy? I mean weve been throwing these synonyms around alot, but I really do feel like Tyrion and Dany are battling insanity while Arya is just regular mad. (Tbh im not that worried, she tough lol) Cat I think is more similar to her kid then other two, shes angry. Cats always been type scary (see Jon) shes also shown that shes fully capable of coloring outside the box with heavy politics on the line (see Tyrion). How is Stoneheart different? But shes still gentle Cat like, shes feeding the Riverlands like fathers daughter should, and operates an orphanage probably in case Arya ever turns up. And probably not to Nissa Nissa her lol.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Its awful, agreed. Although idk how needed it is, Others havent invaded in thousands of years. They are now but it seems like the NW is really under equipped to handle them anyways.

Right, well I don't think the NW today is what it was in all it's former glory. But yeah, something is needed because here they come, though like you said idk how the NW will stand against them. 

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Word, its ok to not be fine. In fact, it makes for a better read lol. (at least imo for Tyrion)

Haha definitely

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

I never knew I should stop, I always thought the brotherhood was mad cool and while I had mixed feelings about Catleyn, shes still definitely the protagonist. Or the protagonist's protagonist. Why would I now root against her because shes hanging Freys? Like, screw Slynt, but Frey? Lol

Agreed. I'm good with it. 

10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Is she crazy? I mean weve been throwing these synonyms around alot, but I really do feel like Tyrion and Dany are battling insanity while Arya is just regular mad. (Tbh im not that worried, she tough lol) Cat I think is more similar to her kid then other two, shes angry. Cats always been type scary (see Jon) shes also shown that shes fully capable of coloring outside the box with heavy politics on the line (see Tyrion). How is Stoneheart different? But shes still gentle Cat like, shes feeding the Riverlands like fathers daughter should, and operates an orphanage probably in case Arya ever turns up. And probably not to Nissa Nissa her lol.

Right what is crazy anyway? Idk who is crazy & who isn't tbh but I think Cat definitely has some issues.  Driven there via grief, loss, & bloodshed. Tyrion is similar I think, it's mostly lifes situations that he is reacting to, mixed with a little loony gene. 

Cat's no body to mess with for sure. She is a mother first & foremost I think & probably won't rest until she feels avenged, fueled by vengeance. She's always been a doer though. Someone tried to kill her kid & she rode across the country side to find out who did it & bring him to justice. Even though she nailed the wrong fellow. 

I agree about Arya, I think once Cat gets to actually see, touch, hold, one of her children we will see some of the other side of her coming back out. 

[Hugorfonics]

5 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Right, well I don't think the NW today is what it was in all it's former glory

Probably not. But a glorified penal colony is still a maximum prison.

Idk why they built the wall or got rangers to hold it down, but whatever the original intent was, it's all fucked up now. 

I feel super bad for the crows, but also for the wildlings too. 

5 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Right what is crazy anyway? Idk who is crazy & who isn't tbh

Bugs Bunny shit? Jumping off walls and what not, the only character I could think of that would impress Bugs would be Patchface. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that dude lost it.

5 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

but I think Cat definitely has some issues.  Driven there via grief, loss, & bloodshed. Tyrion is similar I think, it's mostly lifes situations that he is reacting to, mixed with a little loony gene. 

Cat's no body to mess with for sure. She is a mother first & foremost I think & probably won't rest until she feels avenged, fueled by vengeance. She's always been a doer though. Someone tried to kill her kid & she rode across the country side to find out who did it & bring him to justice. Even though she nailed the wrong fellow. 

I agree about Arya, I think once Cat gets to actually see, touch, hold, one of her children we will see some of the other side of her coming back out. 

Yea word, but more in force because I do think feeding the RL and operating an orphanage is something Cat would to.

I think itd be great for Catelyn to see on if her kids, but uh, I think that'd be really bad for said kid. Idk...losing your mom, especially as a kid, is really shattering and probably the rest of your life you'll be wishing against reality but, idk, that lady's scary looking.... I'm probably wrong and it'd be good for them. Arya and Bran can take anything now, and Rickon and Sansa aren't a bunch of punks either.

(I'm curious about Cats religion. She was so devout, but if large parts of the RL is now into Rhllor probably because of Cats second life, then how could she not be too?)

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

5 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Probably not. But a glorified penal colony is still a maximum prison

Agreed. 

5 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Idk why they built the wall or got rangers to hold it down, but whatever the original intent was, it's all fucked up now. 

I think to keep the bad guys out right? Protect against the long night. But the wall has some sort of magic in it that the watch has apparently forgotten, there's a horn that can potentially take it down, things are gonna get messy.... er. Lol 

Yeah, it don't matter, it's screwed now & Sam isn't likely to learn anything useful & make it back to Jon in time. Plus, will Jon be enough of Jon to listen to Sam? I hope so. 

5 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

feel super bad for the crows, but also for the wildlings too

Same. 

5 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Bugs Bunny shit? Jumping off walls and what not, the only character I could think of that would impress Bugs would be Patchface. I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that dude lost it.

10 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Haha! Yes! Patchface is certifiable. Even he though may have a touch of something special. Some prophetic abilities at least I think. 

5 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yea word, but more in force because I do think feeding the RL and operating an o

For sure. 

5 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

think itd be great for Catelyn to see on if her kids, but uh, I think that'd be really bad for said kid. Idk...losing your mom, especially as a kid, is really shattering and probably the rest of your life you'll be wishing against reality but, idk, that lady's scary looking.... I'm probably wrong and it'd be good for them. Arya and Bran can take anything now, and Rickon and Sansa aren't a bunch of punks either

Right? It would be bad for normal kids probably but Arya ate the worm outta dudes face, Sansa has had to deal with plenty, Bran has traveled across the frozen tundra among other things, Rickon was wild before he left. They got this. 

[Hugorfonics]

45 minutes ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

I think to keep the bad guys out right?

Idk. It does its best to keep Ygritte out, she's not too bad. It does a much better job at keeping Coldhands out, and he's a good guy.

47 minutes ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

Protect against the long night.

Yea presumably. And I'm in favor of stopping the world turning into zombies, but if the goal to get there is by treating people like wights then like, what's the point?

57 minutes ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

But the wall has some sort of magic in it that the watch has apparently forgotten, there's a horn that can potentially take it down, things are gonna get messy.... er. Lol 

Word, there's definitely lots of lost info and the watch probably wasn't always this terrible, but it was still probably always terrible.

58 minutes ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

Yeah, it don't matter, it's screwed now & Sam isn't likely to learn anything useful & make it back to Jon in time. Plus, will Jon be enough of Jon to listen to Sam? I hope so. 

Maybe Mel knows what she's doing? Lol probably not. But maybe her and Jan and Sam and maybe Dany and Tyrion and Moonboy for all I know will help.

I really do believe that, well not Moonboy. But I'm confident that Dany and Jon are both Azor Ahai, probably Stannis too. And I think Tyrion and Theon may be too, probably others. So, I think like the power of a united humanity or something corney like that will defeat the Others. But it also may be a really tall wall.

1 hour ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

Haha! Yes! Patchface is certifiable. Even he though may have a touch of something special. Some prophetic abilities at least I think. 

That Mel is scared of him, scares me.

1 hour ago, Lyanna&lt;3Rhaegar said:

Right? It would be bad for normal kids probably but Arya ate the worm outta dudes face, Sansa has had to deal with plenty, Bran has traveled across the frozen tundra among other things, Rickon was wild before he left. They got this. 

Lol, yea, tough kids. Might freak out Edmure and Blackfish tho