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Star Wars: Go home (M)Ando(r), the Zillo Beast Is Back (Again!)


Lord Varys
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8 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I'd just like to see them get out of the inter-war periods, settings, and characters they're dealing with now. Jedi origins would be fine. Sith origins would be better. 

You think Disney can do those without insulting the Star Wars legacy?

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2 hours ago, Darryk said:

You think Disney can do those without insulting the Star Wars legacy?

No absolutely not. Even though its true that no one at the time would have thought Star Wars had a legacy.  I watched the first one last night and was thinking that Peter Cushing and Alec Guiness must have been totally shocked that this guy no one ever heard of's weird sci fi movie turned out to be a cultural icon.  But, no, Disney has proven itself incapable of not insulting it's shiny penny of a franchise.

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21 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I’d say ‘what legacy?’ 
 

The prequels pretty much wrecked that idea and outside of some flashes of brilliance it’s been downhill since Empire.

I liked ROTJ.

Didn't like the prequels but in hindsight, at least they had a vision and a coherent story. Basically the sequels have made me like the prequels more.

But the main thing is all the rich EU material we had before Disney took over and dumped it all.

Like  for example, I don't want Disney anywhere near an era of Star Wars that has been explored by such great SW media as Knights of the Old Republic.

Edited by Darryk
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2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I’d say ‘what legacy?’ 
 

The prequels pretty much wrecked that idea and outside of some flashes of brilliance it’s been downhill since Empire.

The first three films are the legacy.  The prequels were very, very disappointing even if they had some underlying interesting ideas and a few good scenes.  The reboot was awful.  I won't get into the whole Rian Johnson issue, but collectively, the three reboots were terrible, and terrible for the franchise.  I'm sure Star Wars will continue to make Disney money, but maybe not nearly as much as if, in a parallel universe, the reboot was actually good and provided a good jumping off point for other stories. 

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16 minutes ago, VigoTheCarpathian said:

It’s all been downhill since the Ewoks movies.  
 

 

 

Ha, this is maybe another point, that a large proportion of Star Wars properties are just quite shit, and that has maybe always been the case.

So when I say ‘what legacy’ it’s more a case of saying that the franchise has basically been smashed to pieces numerous times before with garbage being shat out constantly. Personally the prequels killed it for me, and outside of moments during Andor and Rogue One I’ve felt nothing but utter indifference to the whole universe and story.

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WILL THE STAR WARS HOLIDAY SPECIAL RUIN THE LEGACY OF STAR WARS

WILL THE DROIDS CARTOON RUIN THE LEGACY OF STAR WARS

in seriousness I think its really cool that for folks who were kids when the prequels came out those are the legacy, and the OT aren't as interesting. Now I don't think that'll be the case with the ST (largely because it leans on nostalgia more) but the idea that Star Wars can be ruined by a few bad parts of it I think is ridiculous. People don't hate the aliens franchise because of alien 3 or 4. They don't hate predator because of AvP. 

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3 minutes ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

WILL THE STAR WARS HOLIDAY SPECIAL RUIN THE LEGACY OF STAR WARS

WILL THE DROIDS CARTOON RUIN THE LEGACY OF STAR WARS

in seriousness I think its really cool that for folks who were kids when the prequels came out those are the legacy, and the OT aren't as interesting. Now I don't think that'll be the case with the ST (largely because it leans on nostalgia more) but the idea that Star Wars can be ruined by a few bad parts of it I think is ridiculous. People don't hate the aliens franchise because of alien 3 or 4. They don't hate predator because of AvP. 

No but they can destroy enthusiasm for new movies and shows by continually pumping out garbage. There’s a limit to how much nostalgia is going to carry you.  

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To continue, my 'legacy' stuff is the OT, the way I felt seeing those again with new fx in theaters, the thrawn trilogy, the Matthew Stover star wars books, the xwing and dark forces videogames, KOTOR, lego star wars, some of the Marvel comics, some of the prequel, some of the clone wars, some of rebels, TFA and TLJ and Rogue One and Andor. 

What I exclude specifically is the yuuzhan vong outside of the stover stuff, the dark horse comics, most of clone wars and rebels, most of the prequels, TRoS, Mandalorian, Obi-Wan, most of the battlefront stuff, any fighting game, any of the young jedi chronicles, and most everything I didn't mention.

There's a lot. The important thing is that kids still love it. My son and I still watch Mando together, but he didn't like andor very much. My other son loves the lego games and is bored by the ot, but loved the prequels and jar jar. 

 

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1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

No but they can destroy enthusiasm for new movies and shows by continually pumping out garbage. There’s a limit to how much nostalgia is going to carry you.  

I think that as long as they also put out things that aren't shit they'll be fine. I don't think that even now the Star Wars brand is synonymous with low quality or bad value for most people. 

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1 minute ago, Kalnestk Oblast said:

I think that as long as they also put out things that aren't shit they'll be fine. I don't think that even now the Star Wars brand is synonymous with low quality or bad value for most people. 

It’s going in that direction though. We had the sequel trilogy followed by Boba Fett, Obi Wan and Mando ( which is now pretty terrible). If the new set of shows or movies don’t start becoming actually good then people will lose interest. It’s happening to the MCU so why wouldn’t it happen now.

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7 hours ago, Darryk said:

You think Disney can do those without insulting the Star Wars legacy?

Oh, sure. I can be as salty as anyone when it comes to my disappointments with the Disney era. But it's easy to forget that there've been some real gems since 2012.

I already mentioned the final season of Clone Wars. Rebels was pretty good. I haven't finished Andor but apparently it was well received by those who have. Everything else is a bit more mixed but there was some good stuff there.

TFA and Rogue One were both worthy additions to the cinematic saga, even if they were a bit derivative. I liked Solo a lot when I saw it in the theater. It's not great but, considering its production history, I'd say it turned out alright.  

Exactly what the magic formula is, I don't know; but they have the ingredients.

 

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17 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

I still think SW and Avatar having theatrical runs that overlap is a problem. 

 

I don't see why, unless they directly release against each other if that's what you mean, in which case sure, but why would they?

 

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

If the new set of shows or movies don’t start becoming actually good then people will lose interest. It’s happening to the MCU so why wouldn’t it happen now.

 

I've stopped watching most of the SW shows (heck, I haven't seen Andor yet, though I will), but I think it's fair to say that SW has a bit more nostalgic heft because it's 45 years old and not 15. There are far, far more people who have been invested in SW since they were a kid. 

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I mean seriously, look at how often they've fucked up DC. Or the Schumacher run for batman. Still some of the most popular characters out there, even when the movies don't appease the gatekeepers. 

And I'm saying this as someone who doesn't really like most of the filoniverse or most of what Disney has done with it.

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1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

I don't see why, unless they directly release against each other if that's what you mean, in which case sure, but why would they?

I'm more concerned with narratives the commentariat like to set up regarding "competing" franchises. Those narratives, once established, tend to endure and are corrosive to the whole discourse surrounding a particular film or franchise.

Given that SW is kind of feeble at the moment, if it stumbles commercially or critically while something like Avatar goes from strength to strength, that would be a disaster. 

Avatar has the advantage of being in the hands of its creator. A creator who has a vision, who's kind of a genius, who knows what he's doing, and who has the power to maintain his independence. A creator who literally built a bubble city on the other side of the world to make his films. He could have shot those films in a warehouse in Saskatoon, but he didn't. It's an 18 hour flight from L.A. to New Zealand and I bet the corporate jet isn't rated for a flight like that over open water. That's not an accident. On the other hand, SW is still trying to figure out the correct organization for its many, many cooks. 

How refreshing was it that the franchise film media ecosystem practically ignored films like Avatar 2 and Top Gun 2? No fan casting, no leaks, no scoops, no speculation about cameos or story beats; nothing. Just, "here's a trailer"; "here's a second trailer"; "here's a BTS video"; "the film will release on such and such a date".

And while slick assholes are echoing Scott Mendelson's, "no cultural footprint" malarkey, Cameron is busy releasing literally one of the biggest sequels of all time. Seriously, there are articles predicting an Avatar 2 flop that were published after the opening weekend. 

And not a single YouTuber or forum-poster yodeling about how this thing is getting the lore wrong or it's shitting on the legacy or any of that. 

Edited by Deadlines? What Deadlines?
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Tbh, though, while I'm sure they do exist to some extent, quite literally the only person I've ever actually seen making the franchises out to be competing is you. It's just not a thing. It's like being concerned that James Bond will fail because Mission Impossible is around. Or that Mission Impossible: Dead Reckoning will fail because Fast X is coming out this year too. 


They're not even particularly similar. 

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41 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Tbh, though, while I'm sure they do exist to some extent, quite literally the only person I've ever actually seen making the franchises out to be competing is you. It's just not a thing. It's like being concerned that James Bond will fail because Mission Impossible is around. Or that Mission Impossible: Dead Reckoning will fail because Fast X is coming out this year too. 


They're not even particularly similar. 

I must've imagined all that MCU vs. DC stuff then I guess.

For something a little more current.

https://www.cbr.com/universal-crushing-disney-animated-box-office/

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/05/why-minions-beat-lightyear-at-the-box-office.html

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