On and On About Harry & Meghan Part 4

[Tywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

When exactly did they do that while they were still 'working royals'?  

Now she has gotten more negative press, of course, that isn't what I said.  I said that Kate endured years of negative press, while Meghan didn't get any negative press until stories about her behavior began leaking.  

Not really. The negative press really swarmed after frankly Harry talked about race more and more. Meghan again didn't say much and what she did say is what most black women would say.

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The Lee Atwater quote is completely irrelevant to this issue AND is from the 1980s, you know 40 years ago.   

And it's even more true today. That you can't see it is a you problem. The entire point is about masking what is pretty clear racism, so it gives people an out because they're not the worst kind of racists. And conservatives on both sides of the pond have been trafficking in this this, both in the 80's and today. Trying to pretend this isn't a real issue helps no one. 

[Tywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Has anyone else who has joined the royal family had a rough time from the media? Hmmm

Lol, who has had the worst go of it? And what makes her different from the rest? Refusing to really think about that is the actual lack of critical thinking, especially when you and Cas try to say it's because she's mean to the support staff when a ton of the royals are reported to be assholes behind the scenes too. 

[Heartofice]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lol, who has had the worst go of it? And what makes her different from the rest? Refusing to really think about that is the actual lack of critical thinking, especially when you and Cas try to say it's because she's mean to the support staff when a ton of the royals are reported to be assholes behind the scenes too. 

Fergie and Camilla had it just as bad if not worse 

[Cas Stark]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lol, who has had the worst go of it? And what makes her different from the rest? Refusing to really think about that is the actual lack of critical thinking, especially when you and Cas try to say it's because she's mean to the support staff when a ton of the royals are reported to be assholes behind the scenes too. 

Now you're just making stuff up to bolster your argument that you think think must be true.  The only royal I'm aware of who supposedly is difficult behind the scenes is Andrew. Not Kate.  Not William. Not the queen.  Not Camilla. Not Edward and Sophie. Maybe Charles I'm not sure on him. Not Anne. What tons of people are you referring to here?

I will say again that both Camilla and Kate were treated worse by the media and for far longer than Meghan was during her short time as a working royal. 

 

[Cas Stark]

If you wanted to make a case that WOMEN who marry into the royal family are treated immeasurably worse than men, then the evidence there is overwhelming.  That's sexism, not racism and thus, Meghan's treatment during her time as a working royal was nothing out of the ordinary, despite that I'm sure as a human being, it's difficult to endure such a harsh spotlight. 

[Heartofice]

4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

If you wanted to make a case that WOMEN who marry into the royal family are treated immeasurably worse than men, then the evidence there is overwhelming.  That's sexism, not racism and thus, Meghan's treatment during her time as a working royal was nothing out of the ordinary, despite that I'm sure as a human being, it's difficult to endure such a harsh spotlight. 

Yeah there is definitely an element of that, although it was worse before however, you wouldn’t get the sort of terrible abuse that Fergie got in the past these days.

It’s also simply that the royals are protected by the press, that is clear, and once you step outside of that circle of protection you are in trouble. 

[Tywin et al.]

14 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Fergie and Camilla had it just as bad if not worse 

Child please. It was never this bad. You can say Meghan's an asshole and I wouldn't push back much, but to deny the racial factor and how that's magnified things is just silly. Just like it's silly to pretend the UK hasn't had deep racial issues, both yesterday and right now. 

17 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Now you're just making stuff up to bolster your argument that you think think must be true.  The only royal I'm aware of who supposedly is difficult behind the scenes is Andrew. Not Kate.  Not William. Not the queen.  Not Camilla. Not Edward and Sophie. Maybe Charles I'm not sure on him. Not Anne. What tons of people are you referring to here?

I will say again that both Camilla and Kate were treated worse by the media and for far longer than Meghan was during her short time as a working royal. 

 

Lol, Kate barely gets a fraction of the hate Meghan does. To compare the two is odd.

And yeah, from the reporting I've seen suggests a lot of the main players are assholes and empty suits behind closed doors. The difference is how the media covers them (and how those with the most power influence them). 

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Child please. It was never this bad. You can say Meghan's an asshole and I wouldn't push back much, but to deny the racial factor and how that's magnified things is just silly. Just like it's silly to pretend the UK hasn't had deep racial issues, both yesterday and right now. 

I mean your knowledge of the UK has proven to be minimal time and time again, but I doubt you even know who Fergie is or what happened with her.

She got so much shit in the press, called fat, ugly, stupid, badly dressed. Then there was the toe sucking thing.

 

[Cas Stark]

30 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Child please. It was never this bad. You can say Meghan's an asshole and I wouldn't push back much, but to deny the racial factor and how that's magnified things is just silly. Just like it's silly to pretend the UK hasn't had deep racial issues, both yesterday and right now. 

Lol, Kate barely gets a fraction of the hate Meghan does. To compare the two is odd.

And yeah, from the reporting I've seen suggests a lot of the main players are assholes and empty suits behind closed doors. The difference is how the media covers them (and how those with the most power influence them). 

Certainly, from a PR perspective, Meghan is the best thing that ever happened to Kate.  She went from being Waity Katie, Two Kitchens Kate, 'wisteria sister', lazy and always sneered at for not being an aristo....to now she's tagged as a perfect royal and always gets great press.  Now.  That wasn't the case in the past.

To compare the two is odd why?  They are married to brothers, the two sons of the current King and Diana.  Many, many parallels there.

You also should not compare the terrible press M and H get now...after all their trashing of the royal family, the British media and even the British public...with how they were treated before they bounced.  Apples to apples.

ETA...'empty suit' is the literal job description, which in hindsight, is the perfect 'job' for Harry and Meghan.  Dress up, show up, speak  platitudes. 

Edited June 27, 2023 by Cas Stark

[Zorral]

2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

There was a handful, and by 'handful' I mean probably less than six, stories that could reasonably be considered to have any kind of racial angle. 

Good god! The Daily Beast alone, quoting Brit pubs, had at least a dozen every week, just starting with leading up t to the wedding.  They're still doing it.

[Tywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

I mean your knowledge of the UK has proven to be minimal time and time again, but I doubt you even know who Fergie is or what happened with her.

She got so much shit in the press, called fat, ugly, stupid, badly dressed. Then there was the toe sucking thing.

I'm aware of how they treated her. It still wasn't as rough as what Meghan has been served up.

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Certainly, from a PR perspective, Meghan is the best thing that ever happened to Kate.  She went from being Waity Katie, Two Kitchens Kate, 'wisteria sister', lazy and always sneered at for not being an aristo....to now she's tagged as a perfect royal and always gets great press.  Now.  That wasn't the case in the past.

Eh, pretty much all the PR I've seen about her is positive even before Meghan. The stuff that wasn't outside of the refusing tp peg him was typically pretty minimal.

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You also should not compare the terrible press M and H get now...after all their trashing of the royal family, the British media and even the British public...with how they were treated before they bounced.  Apples to apples.

They started to get bad press for nothing they did and then Harry more so than Meghan decided to burn it all down. And yet she still gets attacked for things he's said. Her comments about the royal family and race have been more muted than his (and I'm not sure either has said anything that's not inaccurate even though some of it has been self serving).

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ETA...'empty suit' is the literal job description, which in hindsight, is the perfect 'job' for Harry and Meghan.  Dress up, show up, speak  platitudes. 

I've said this before, they're all just that, an empty family of grifters. Some random person from Essex would probably be better than most of them. The need to hate these two is weird and there's an obvious outlier there.  

[Cas Stark]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm aware of how they treated her. It still wasn't as rough as what Meghan has been served up.

Eh, pretty much all the PR I've seen about her is positive even before Meghan. The stuff that wasn't outside of the refusing tp peg him was typically pretty minimal.

They started to get bad press for nothing they did and then Harry more so than Meghan decided to burn it all down. And yet she still gets attacked for things he's said. Her comments about the royal family and race have been more muted than his (and I'm not sure either has said anything that's not inaccurate even though some of it has been self serving).

I've said this before, they're all just that, an empty family of grifters. Some random person from Essex would probably be better than most of them. The need to hate these two is weird and there's an obvious outlier there.  

No, there isn't.  They are two of the most famous people on the planet.  Harry has been famous his entire life.  The fact that millions and millions of people are interested in the British royal family should not be news to anyone.  The fact that many people have observed the behavior of these incredibly famous people for the last 5+ years and come to conclusions different than yours is no kind of outlier of anything.  I don't know why so many people buy into this narrative since it is almost wholly lacking in any substance or evidence.  Indeed, the last person who flounced out of the British royal family and his divorced American wife also came in for a lot of negative press for a long time.  Same/same. The idea that there have been dozens of racist stories about Meghan every week for months or years is nuts.  

Anyway, we're not getting anywhere here, which should be okay.  People should be able to hold different, even negative, views of famous celebrities without all sorts of weird innuendos and accusations being attached.  

Edited June 28, 2023 by Cas Stark

[Tywin et al.]

54 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Anyway, we're not getting anywhere here, which should be okay.  People should be able to hold different, even negative, views of famous celebrities without all sorts of weird innuendos and accusations being attached.  

You're the one who said MM isn't even really black which was insensitive as it was ignorant.

There's a fine line between being critical of an actor's last project and the shit that's going on here. And again, I've never actually defended H&M or really said anything positive about either. They're both uninteresting, MM is at best a B TV star and Harry is only famous because of his family. Neither are all that special, which is why the hate they generate is so curious considering their comments are pretty normal relative to their life experiences. The people who get so angry about them are the fascinating subjects. 

[Wall Flower]

3 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

If you wanted to make a case that WOMEN who marry into the royal family are treated immeasurably worse than men, then the evidence there is overwhelming.  That's sexism, not racism and thus, Meghan's treatment during her time as a working royal was nothing out of the ordinary, despite that I'm sure as a human being, it's difficult to endure such a harsh spotlight. 

It was the "Duchess of Pork" headline (with accompanying unflattering picture) about Fergie that began my longstanding hatred of the British tabloid press. I just think they added a bit of racism to their well-worn formula of sexism, cruelty, bullying, relentless targeting and general character assassination. I don't get why you think that's okay in Meghan's case.

The thing that's changed is the papers' digital platforms, allowing for global dissemination of articles; and also the presence of social media. I'm on Twitter and it's been eye opening to see so many accounts solely dedicated to hating on Meghan (with some really crazy conspiracy theories); and that doesn't include other digital platforms like Youtube where there are monetised hate accounts. Hating on Meghan and Harry has become big business.

[BigFatCoward]

@Tywin et al. we're you following a lot of the British press in the 80s when Fergie and Diana were getting stick? Getting the news of the World and the Sun shipped over to the US when you were about, checks notes, 0 years old if my maths is correct.

There's a lot of arguments against the British press but please don't pretend you have a clue about what was happening to Fergie in particular in the 80s. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by BigFatCoward

[Tywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

@Tywin et al. we're you following a lot of the British press in the 80s when Fergie and Diana were getting stick? Getting the news of the World and the Sun shipped over to the US when you were about, checks notes, 0 years old if my maths is correct.

There's a lot of arguments against the British press but please don't pretend you have a clue about what was happening to Fergie in particular in the 80s. 

Lol. I remember hearing the radio saying Diana had died as a kid and telling my step-father about it while on a fishing trip. I don't pretend to know everything, however, the flat denial of racism towards MM is odd. 

[Heartofice]

22 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lol. I remember hearing the radio saying Diana had died as a kid and telling my step-father about it while on a fishing trip. I don't pretend to know everything, however, the flat denial of racism towards MM is odd. 

Hang on, it’s you who is claiming thet Meghan is getting exceptionally poor treatment. The problem is you are pretty unaware of royal history and the UK, and so are mostly speaking out of ignorance. Which is why I’m so confused as to why you continue to jump into this thread to speak about something you continuously tell us you don’t care about. 

[Tywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Hang on, it’s you who is claiming thet Meghan is getting exceptionally poor treatment. The problem is you are pretty unaware of royal history and the UK, and so are mostly speaking out of ignorance. Which is why I’m so confused as to why you continue to jump into this thread to speak about something you continuously tell us you don’t care about. 

Because she is. Other members of the royal family have been treated like shit over the years, but this seems a step up. Why is your ire not focused at the tabloids or the structure of the royal family? That would seem the place to focus your anger, not on a couple that say pretty bland stuff. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[BigFatCoward]

30 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Lol. I remember hearing the radio saying Diana had died as a kid and telling my step-father about it while on a fishing trip. I don't pretend to know everything, however, the flat denial of racism towards MM is odd. 

I'm not denying there is a racist element. But Fergie had it far far worse, they were brutal. 

And as others have pointed out most women who married into the royal family have been given a rough ride, other than Sophe because nobody even knows who thingymajig even is. 

[Heartofice]

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Because she is. Other members of the royal family have been treated like shit over the years, but this seems a step up. Why is your ire not focused at the tabloids or the structure of the royal family? That would seem the place to focus your anger, not on a couple that say pretty bland stuff. 

What I’m saying is it’s not a step up at all. The amount written about her is more, but that’s because the media landscape has changed, but in terms of cruelty and nastiness she is getting off likely compared to someone like Fergie. So for your point to have any validity you’d have to show there is something exceptional about the way she is being treated, but unfortunately there isn’t, the press have always been nasty.

As to whether they ‘say bland stuff’, again I don’t really know where you get that idea. They left the royal family and have made attacks on it, made accusations of racism, have made a series of outright lies, treated people badly and just generally made a huge fuss despite saying they wanted to go away and be left alone. 
 

What is this ‘bland stuff’ you keep referring to?