The Fallen Commander

[Jon Fossoway]

If Jon is declared dead and then revives, he should be relieved of his duty as a brother of the Night's Watch, no?

Quote

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. 

When Beric died and then got revived by Thoros, he basically cut ties with the Dondarrions, to the point of even barely remembering his bethroted, his castle and lands. This is set to be because of how Rahloo's magic works, sure, but the thing is that dying and reviving certainly brings something different back to life. In the case of Jon's vows, IF he actually died, and somehow gets revived, again: he should be relieved of his vows. 

[Springwatch]

5 minutes ago, Jon Fossoway said:

If Jon is declared dead and then revives, he should be relieved of his duty as a brother of the Night's Watch, no?

If people believe Jon came back from the dead, they will be freaked out and not want him as king or anything else.

If they don't believe he came back from the dead, his broken vows will be the problem.

[csuszka1948]

23 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

If people believe Jon came back from the dead, they will be freaked out and not want him as king or anything else.

If they don't believe he came back from the dead, his broken vows will be the problem.

 

Robb's will frees him from his vows though. It has been introduced for a reason.

[Springwatch]

7 minutes ago, csuszka1948 said:

Robb's will frees him from his vows though. It has been introduced for a reason.

Perhaps.My honest guess is that Robb's will won't ever be proved, but is essential to Jon's destined role as 'eternal champion' and leader in this supernatural winter and Long Night. He looks like a King of Winter, basically.

Anyway. If Robb's will can do the trick, Jon being resurrected from the dead will be an unnecessary solution to the problem - which is a big thing to turn out irrelevant.

 

[LongRider]

50 minutes ago, Jon Fossoway said:

If Jon is declared dead and then revives, he should be relieved of his duty as a brother of the Night's Watch, no?

When Beric died and then got revived by Thoros, he basically cut ties with the Dondarrions, to the point of even barely remembering his bethroted, his castle and lands. This is set to be because of how Rahloo's magic works, sure, but the thing is that dying and reviving certainly brings something different back to life. In the case of Jon's vows, IF he actually died, and somehow gets revived, again: he should be relieved of his vows. 

from the WIKI:  According to George R. R. Martin, Beric is no longer a living being after his first death; his heart does not beat and blood does not flow through his veins. In Martin's own words, Beric is "a wight animated by fire instead of by ice".^[33]

This should apply to all of the reanimated dead in Westeros, including Jon Snow if he is in fact, dead and reanimated.  If Jon is dead, then yes, he is no longer a brother of the Night's Watch.  However, if he is not dead and survives his wounds, then Robb's will if found and the word comes to the NW, now that would be very interesting, wouldn't it?  More interesting than another zombie, in my view. 

 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 7/2/2023 at 11:37 AM, The Gizzard of Oz said:

In A Game of Thrones we are treated to one of Bran Stark's visions.  One line foretold what will happen to Jon.

Why pale?  Jon was stabbed multiple times and has already lost a lot of life blood.  His body grows hard because that is rigor mortis.  The body has died and death brings stiffness.  All that are obviously what happens to somebody who went from dying to death.  Jon will die from his wounds.  His body will follow the normal course of rigor mortis.  The more intriguing part is "as the memory of all warmth fled from him."

It is an easy interpretation, warmth is life and a dead body grows cold.  But there is a deeper meaning.  Warmth is compassion and caring.  We already know what Jon was thinking in his last seconds of life.  Revenge.  Murder.   He wants to murder all of the Crows. 

Jon has chosen his side before he died.  He chose family over duty.  He chose to betray the Night's Watch and everything it has stood for.  He broke the policy of neutrality.  He betrayed justice by sparing Mance Rayder and killing Janos Slynt.  It was corruption through and through.  He sent the Wildling criminal to rescue his sister on a mission that breaks every laws, every ethics of the Night's Watch.  Jon began the destruction of the one institution protecting Westeros from the White Walkers.  That is not all though.  He will come back and he will have the White Walkers to thank for bringing him back.  His heart will be cold and he will bring death to everyone in the North and as far South as he can take his wights.  He will reach the Trident and there he will meet his final ending through Dragonfire. 

The thousand dollar question is who will murder Bowen Marsh.  I don't want it to happen but it looks like it's going to happen.  A wight Jon Snow or Arya in disguise.  Jon is closer but there's no telling how long he stays dead before the white walkers do their magic and raise him back. 

[Maegor_the_Cool]

Just now, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

The thousand dollar question is who will murder Bowen Marsh.  I don't want it to happen but it looks like it's going to happen.  A wight Jon Snow or Arya in disguise.  Jon is closer but there's no telling how long he stays dead before the white walkers do their magic and raise him back. 

Bowen Marsh is gonna get Wun Wun’d against a wall and die a painful traitors death. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

4 minutes ago, Jon Snowfyre said:

Bowen Marsh is gonna get Wun Wun’d against a wall and die a painful traitors death. 

Marsh might die that way.  But I still agree with what he did to stop Jon. 

[Maegor_the_Cool]

15 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Marsh might die that way.  But I still agree with what he did to stop Jon. 

Then you are wrong and should feel bad about it

[James West]

On 7/2/2023 at 11:37 AM, The Gizzard of Oz said:

It is an easy interpretation, warmth is life and a dead body grows cold.  But there is a deeper meaning.  Warmth is compassion and caring.  We already know what Jon was thinking in his last seconds of life.  Revenge.  Murder.   He wants to murder all of the Crows. 

He wants Arya to avenge him.  Jon inside the body of Ghost can do a lot of harm.  Arya as Nymeria and Jon inside Ghost can do a lot of violence.  Arya dies before she can return to the north but finds herself inside Nymeria.  The Direwolves meet and together slaughter everyone they find. 

[James West]

On 7/2/2023 at 11:37 AM, The Gizzard of Oz said:

his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him.

The death will be fast in coming.  His body will get the stiffening because of the cold ambient temperature.  Bowen M will take Jon to the ice cells to let him die in peace.  

 

[Craving Peaches]

2 hours ago, James West said:

Bowen M will take Jon to the ice cells to let him die in peace. 

I wish this thread could be taken to the ice cells to let it die in peace.

[Corvo the Crow]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I wish this thread could be taken to the ice cells to let it die in peace.

Apparently Jon haters were taken to ice cells instead as they rarely come these days and when they do, not even two people post during the same period.

[H Wadsworth Longfellow]

On 7/5/2023 at 6:35 PM, Jon Snowfyre said:

On a serious note, I do think Jon will be a Night King esq figure. His resurrection will parallel Daenerys’ pyre scene. Those left will witness his return but realize he is different from the Wights. He’ll get the followers he was after before his death, and I think he may declare himself King on the Wall. If Robb’s Will resurfaces, I could definitely see him declaring himself King of the North. Perhaps the Wildlings declare him their King. Jon will March South to Winterfell to take care of what remains of the Boltons and possibly Stannis.

The characters and the settings are very different.  Daenerys is a god-like figure who earned her followers.  She was brave, she was smart.  She made the decision to end the life of her Nissa Nissa, Khal Drogo, and walked through the fire.  She came out unburnt and with three dragons.  Anybody who saw that would kneel.

The wildlings are no stranger to the dead walking.  And it's not an experience they look forward to repeating.  They will see Jon coming back to life as a work of evil.  Celebrating the moment is the last thing they will do.  They will run as fast and as far as their hairy legs will take them. 

[Nevets]

On 7/7/2023 at 12:30 PM, LongRider said:

from the WIKI:  According to George R. R. Martin, Beric is no longer a living being after his first death; his heart does not beat and blood does not flow through his veins. In Martin's own words, Beric is "a wight animated by fire instead of by ice".^[33]

This should apply to all of the reanimated dead in Westeros, including Jon Snow if he is in fact, dead and reanimated.  If Jon is dead, then yes, he is no longer a brother of the Night's Watch.  However, if he is not dead and survives his wounds, then Robb's will if found and the word comes to the NW, now that would be very interesting, wouldn't it?  More interesting than another zombie, in my view. 

 

It could be very interesting indeed, especially since I don't believe Jon will leave the Night's Watch so long as the Others are a threat.  The only way I could see it is if he feels he can be more effective outside the NW than in it.

In any event, he can be the effective ruler of the North even as LC.  He can solve problems, mediate disputes, be in charge of the army, without having the title of King.  He's already doing it to some extent, as with Alys Karstark.

Robb's Will could complicate things for Sansa, since it probably disinherits her.  And Arya, Bran, and Rickon could be affected as well.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Nevets

[LongRider]

On 7/8/2023 at 10:55 PM, James West said:

Bowen M will take Jon to the ice cells to let him die in peace.  

Hilarious!  Bowen will be quickly killed as there will be chaos at Castle Black.  Hopefully, Wun Wun will pull his traitor arms off. 

[James West]

 

On 7/11/2023 at 9:51 AM, LongRider said:

Hilarious!  Bowen will be quickly killed as there will be chaos at Castle Black.  Hopefully, Wun Wun will pull his traitor arms off. 

 

Bowen Marsh stabbed Jon to save the Night's Watch from Jon's incompetence.  He didn't do it out of hate for Jon.  Although Jon deserved it after he murdered Janos Slynt.  Bowen will take the dying Jon somewhere to let him expire quietly and quickly.  The job is done.  The next is to sort Jon's mess and get the watch back to work instead of getting involved in the Bolton-Stark feud.  

[Craving Peaches]

1 hour ago, James West said:

Bowen Marsh stabbed Jon to save the Night's Watch from Jon's incompetence

Jon's not incompetent, the Watch doesn't need saving from him.

1 hour ago, James West said:

Although Jon deserved it after he murdered Janos Slynt. 

Please read the book. Jon didn't murder Slynt.

1 hour ago, James West said:

The next is to sort Jon's mess and get the watch back to work 

Not going to happen because Bowen killed the man holding the disparate factions together, so they will probably start fighting each other. Also a good chunk of the Watch actually likes Jon given they voted for him.

[SaffronLady]

Look, execution is not murder. And in the books, Janos Slynt getting killed by Jon because he was personally a part of Jon's (legal) father's death is not murder either, because Jon didn't kill him in revenge.

Jon killed Janos because he was insubordinate. Stuff like this gets you killed in armies. End of story.

[Corvo the Crow]

4 hours ago, James West said:

 

 

Bowen Marsh stabbed Jon to save the Night's Watch from Jon's incompetence.  He didn't do it out of hate for Jon.  Although Jon deserved it after he murdered Janos Slynt.  Bowen will take the dying Jon somewhere to let him expire quietly and quickly.  The job is done.  The next is to sort Jon's mess and get the watch back to work instead of getting involved in the Bolton-Stark feud.  

This isn't the fanfic section of the forum, in fact I don't even know if we have one.