Star Trek: I miss Hemmer (spoilers)

[Ran]

21 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

why would Starfleet specifically order crew to interact with someone they had every reason to hate?

Because they expect Starfleet officers can do as they're told and it would help send a message. I Wouldn't be surprised if Dak'rah put Starfleet up to it, though.

21 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

How has he negotiated any kind of peace if he killed his own men then defected?

This one is a stretch. Would have preferred it if his role as an ambassador was limited to non-Klingon business, but rewatching the episode I see he had a role in at least one Klingon-related matter.

21 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

How is there only a minor investigation if someone we’ve been repeatedly told is super important gets stabbed?

I mean, they say there'll be an inquiry, I doubt there'll be anything minor about it (but they probably won't show it).

21 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

Shouldn’t M’Benga, as about the most qualified person in the whole of Star Trek to be both compassionate and capable of defending himself, have been able to subdue him non-lethally even if he did start the fight?

Dak'rah was apparently skilled in the hand-to-hand combat, and his Klingon rage was getting the better of him. Even a skilled martial artist can only do so much when a knife is involved and someone is being aggressive.

21 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

And I could have used some rough geography to what was actually happening on the planet, wounded were beamed in and there were background phasers, and M’Benga somehow could walk straight into the enemy leaders lair and wipe out his men.

Yeah, wouldn't have minded a map just toget a sense. I doubt M'Benga walked straight in. I'm guessing he pulled the plans the Andorian commando had and used it to infiltrate. Since he was known as "the Ghost" and he was a former black ops guy, I guess infiltration was his specialty.

[Lord Varys]

There is no reason Starfleet/Federation knew or cared about the trauma people. It is part of the plot that even Pike doesn't really know/care ... so why the hell should other people?

Klingon Guy is also kind of surprised by the M'Benga situation. He didn't see it coming but jumped on things when he realized what was going on.

A big reason why M'Benga's characterization there sucks is that the character is now, well, overloaded with backstory. We got his daughter situation, his desire to learn new healing techniques ... and then there is war trauma and a (kind of) buried desire to kill. That is a bit much.

Would have been better to flesh out other characters instead ... like the, so far, underdeveloped Erica Ortegas and Una Chin-Riley. Number One is, so far, just a freak alien who pretended to be non-augmented human. She got more characterization in that one Short Trek episode with Spock than they gave her in the entirety of SNW so far (perhaps a slight exaggeration but not so far).

Why not have one of them having a hidden war trauma past? Or better still - explore murderous trauma with the character they set up for such plots - La'an Noonien Singh. Giving Erica a war veteran past wasn't bad. Why not? But Chapel, too, gets a bit much baggage with that stuff.

[DaveSumm]

53 minutes ago, Ran said:

I mean, they say there'll be an inquiry, I doubt there'll be anything minor about it (but they probably won't show it).

Dak'rah was apparently skilled in the hand-to-hand combat, and his Klingon rage was getting the better of him. Even a skilled martial artist can only do so much when a knife is involved and someone is being aggressive.

It just felt a bit weird that it was implied it wasn’t a murder investigation, when he was stabbed by someone with a huge motive to do so. It might’ve worked better if he’d fallen from some height and we didn’t know if he was pushed or something, to give a bit more reasonable doubt as to what happened. 

[Lord Varys]

21 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

It just felt a bit weird that it was implied it wasn’t a murder investigation, when he was stabbed by someone with a huge motive to do so. It might’ve worked better if he’d fallen from some height and we didn’t know if he was pushed or something, to give a bit more reasonable doubt as to what happened. 

That plot is full of holes, of course, as Chapel should and would have been forced to do the 'impossible to lie computer testimony' ... that is, if the thing was a murder. We didn't see it. It is very much implied but we don't know.

The fact that they don't really investigate things, though, feels like esprit de corps style corruption. Pike and Starfleet Command could give M'Benga and Chapel the Una treatment ... or worse. But they don't want to. Because they are their buddies and comrades (in arms).

If they wanted it to look good they did a poor ass job at it. In fact, the talk about Starfleet doing 'exploration' sounded like a joke in that episode.

Continuing with war trauma shit there also feels weird in light of how the TOS Klingons are portrayed. Arguably Klingons should be loathed and hated much more than Romulans are in 'Balance of Terror' due to the very recent and very devastating war between Federation and Klingons. But we get nothing of that.

Going with such a backstory plot line just sucks. Covering Klingon War backstory stuff as such was not necessarily bad, though. What could have been great was to have some character actually go with 'human superiority' towards Klingons, insisting that they are but mindless, savage animals? Not so much because of evil war crimes - which is kind of a rehash of the Kirk plot line from Star Trek VI, anyway - but because of blatant contempt of Klingon culture. (Which could actually be a valid point in light of how they behave themselves. I'd not want to have anything to do with such people.)

If you think about it, there is a lot of trauma in that show - Pike future accident trauma, La'an Gorn trauma, Una buddy abandonment trauma, Uhura loss of parents/grandmother/Hemmer trauma, Spock Vulcan-human-hybrid trauma, and now M'Benga/Chapel Klingon trauma. Could have been a tidbit less trauma and more, you know, different issues, be they private or professional.

I think I already mentioned it - even the issues of the Kirk brothers feel kind of cheap. Jealousy/arrogance about who is a better son in the eyes of their father? Really? That is what the writers thought was a great idea for two adult brothers in this society?

Sure enough, families can have conflicts ... but if we think about Picard and his brother/father it is more about life and career choices, not if you are a super successful career officer or if you rise through the ranks a bit slower. That is just petty.

[IheartIheartTesla]

One thing I believe is true is that Trek has never won an acting (or even directing for that matter?) Emmy. That's such a travesty, and I think we can easily put it up against numerous 'procedurals' that have indeed won. Not sure why this is the case, hopefully nuTrek can right that wrong.

[Corvinus85]

On 7/30/2023 at 10:35 AM, IheartIheartTesla said:

One thing I believe is true is that Trek has never won an acting (or even directing for that matter?) Emmy. That's such a travesty, and I think we can easily put it up against numerous 'procedurals' that have indeed won. Not sure why this is the case, hopefully nuTrek can right that wrong.

I think that until GoT there weren't that many SFF shows that received much love at the Emmys. 

[IheartIheartTesla]

They could always win a Grammy for tomorrow's episode

[Mindwalker]

Well, I hope not. That was no Once More With Feeling. Mildly entertaining, sure.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

22 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

Well, I hope not. That was no Once More With Feeling. Mildly entertaining, sure.

Eh?

[Jaxom 1974]

8 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Eh?

The musical Buffy episode...

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

9 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

The musical Buffy episode...

Oh… Buffy… meh…

[Corvinus85]

Well I was dreading this episode since it was announced, but I feel that it worked. The musical acts were not done at the expense of the plot, and there were nice amusing moments interweaved with good character moments. It wasn't perfect, but definitely entertaining.

That being said, the most unrealistic part of the episode is that there are so many good singers on a starship. Which is why it made it the least immersive for me. I would be out of breath 10 seconds into a song. 

[IheartIheartTesla]

Havent seen it yet, but I'm sure I'll enjoy it. One of my biggest gripes with Disco is how serious and portentous it always was (everything had to be of galaxy threatening importance). SNW manages to blend seriousness with lighthearted fun (in the spirit of TNG sometimes)

[Ran]

Just hit the bit where La'an wonders if they'll turn into bunnies, and that has to be a nod to "Once More, With Feeling" after Anya goes on a whole pop-rock riff that maybe it was bunnies that is making them sing. It happens when they're discussing what's going on and why it's happening, as well, just like this moment.

Very clever.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

I loved that.  It tied together so many of the themes that were running through this season and did it well.  I really enjoyed the musical numbers.  

Why, given Klingon Opera, would Klingons be dishonored by breaking into song and dance (or impromptu hip hop numbers)…

Boimler… created the timeline for how Spock ends up as he does.  Without Boimler spilling the beans to Chapel she might have held on harder to Spock.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Ser Scot A Ellison

[Mindwalker]

I mean, I didn't hate it. Overall, that's the best I can say.

The Klingon scene, however, was hilarious.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Mindwalker

[Ran]

Thought it was great fun, and was great seeing some of the actors who have real formal musical training (Christina Chong, Celia Rose Gooding) being let loose. The fact that they provided an explanation for the singing and dancing is another aspect that we enjoyed. Also, besides the bunnies line, Uhura's "I have a theory" is surely a nod to "Once More, With Feeling" again.

Spock's turning and walking away from Chapel was painful. 

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Why, given Klingon Opera, would Klingons be dishonored by breaking into song and dance (or impromptu hip hop numbers)…

Because they're forced to perform human music, given that the improbability field was applying the rules of human musicals (rap numbers do show up on broadway these days, as Hamilton will attest).

 

Edited August 3, 2023 by Ran

[Corvinus85]

One criticism I have for this season is the lack of development for the new chief engineer, Pelia. Post the first episode, she had little participation. We need to know more about her species. 

While this wasn't the episode to do it, one thing they could have done is have her talk about about the dancing manias that afflicted central medieval Europe at times. Could have tried to link those still unexplained events to a space-time fold.

[Denvek]

3 hours ago, Ran said:

Just hit the bit where La'an wonders if they'll turn into bunnies, and that has to be a nod to "Once More, With Feeling" after Anya goes on a whole pop-rock riff that maybe it was bunnies that is making them sing. It happens when they're discussing what's going on and why it's happening, as well, just like this moment.

Very clever.

My thought on that point was, if this had been Lower Decks, we'd have got a scene at the end showing the bunny reality.

[DaveSumm]

I think I kinda loved that. The only bit that broke me was the Klingon section, I was so prepared for them to just join in a line of the song they were already singing, but going full hip-hop was just a shade too ridiculous for me. 

But damn, La’an’s solo song (flying blind) would happily sit alongside any Disney offering. Better than most, in fact. Between that and her confession to Kirk, which could’ve been quite clumsy if handled badly, Chong knocked it out of the park. 

”From hells heart, I stab at th..”

”Oh FYI Khan, funny story … that guy you met earlier, my son? If not for him, I’d have totally fucked your great great granddaughter. In fact in an alternate reality, I did!”