Football - Never Say Die!

[Spockydog]

3 hours ago, Raja said:

Bruno's too busy falling over and looking at the ref

Also, just me or was it the right call on the penalty? I've seen a couple of replays and it didn't look like a penalty to me

As for Kai, I think the man just needs some confidence

No penalty. He went down anticipating contact that never came. Correct decision.

[polishgenius]

6 hours ago, Mexal said:

Also Polish, if only Odegaard could score like Bruno. Overrated.

 

Hey, I never said Bruno was better than Odegaard.

[Soylent Brown]

Is the penalty claim people are talking about the Hojlund one? Penalty for me. It didn't look like much from the first angle, but from the other side you can see that Gabriel basically rugby tackles him.

[ljkeane]

The clip going round of Micah Richards and Roy Keane in an altercation with a guy was apparently due to him aiming a headbutt at Roy Keane. What an absolute dickhead.

[polishgenius]

3 hours ago, Soylent Brown said:

Is the penalty claim people are talking about the Hojlund one? Penalty for me. It didn't look like much from the first angle, but from the other side you can see that Gabriel basically rugby tackles him.

Nah, the Havertz one that was initially given but overturned by VAR

[Consigliere]

Not overly concerned about the Sancho situation. I have faith that Ten Hag will sort it out during the international break. He's had to deal with some tough situations since he came in - Ronaldo is the obvious one but he also get a squad that downed tools the previous season back into line. 

[Winterfell is Burning]

Brazilian press is reporting, with pictures and prints, that United's Anthony allegedly physically abused his ex-girlfriend, and she pressed charges. 

[Spockydog]

Arseblog's not having any of Ten Hag's bleating.

"The reality is, if you bring on Harry Maguire and Jonny Evans, you get what you deserve."

[ljkeane]

14 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Arseblog's not having any of Ten Hag's bleating.

"The reality is, if you bring on Harry Maguire and Jonny Evans, you get what you deserve."

I mean, in fairness, almost no side is in great shape when they have to bring their fourth and fifth choice centre backs on mid game due to injury. Fifth choice especially is pretty much going to be either experienced journeyman happy to almost never play or inexperienced youngster.

[Iskaral Pust]

United made Liverpool’s depth at CB look really good, and we’ve been crying out for a LCB all summer.

Perhaps Arsenal should be concerned that they didn’t particularly look like winning that match until Maguire and Evans arrived.  And United should be concerned that years after Mourinho and Ole they still only look capable when they defend deep and rely on pacy counterattacks — they still look toothless in possession and will struggle against teams who stand off them (they were very lucky to beat Wolves).

Credit where it’s due: Sterling has been really good for Chelsea without anyone else around him playing particularly well, aside from Enzo.  I’ve previously said that he rides the coattails of better players.

[Spockydog]

1 hour ago, ljkeane said:

I mean, in fairness, almost no side is in great shape when they have to bring their fourth and fifth choice centre backs on mid game due to injury. Fifth choice especially is pretty much going to be either experienced journeyman happy to almost never play or inexperienced youngster.

Absolutely. It was far from ideal. I feel a bit sorry for the manager, tbh. The club is in a right old state. 

 

[Spockydog]

1 hour ago, Iskaral Pust said:

United made Liverpool’s depth at CB look really good, and we’ve been crying out for a LCB all summer.

Perhaps Arsenal should be concerned that they didn’t particularly look like winning that match until Maguire and Evans arrived.  And United should be concerned that years after Mourinho and Ole they still only look capable when they defend deep and rely on pacy counterattacks — they still look toothless in possession and will struggle against teams who stand off them (they were very lucky to beat Wolves).

Credit where it’s due: Sterling has been really good for Chelsea without anyone else around him playing particularly well, aside from Enzo.  I’ve previously said that he rides the coattails of better players.

Or another way to look at is we didn't look like winning until Jesus came on. He reallyis different class. His attacking play is in another dimension compared to Eddie's. 

Also, less Havertz, please. This cunt is turning into Willian 2.0.

[Mexal]

44 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Or another way to look at is we didn't look like winning until Jesus came on. He reallyis different class. His attacking play is in another dimension compared to Eddie's. 

Also, less Havertz, please. This cunt is turning into Willian 2.0.

Or another way to put it, we completely controlled the game (United had 17 passes total in final third) and we had ample opportunities to take the lead, including Saka missing a 10 yard sitter from middle of the goal.

We have to give Havertz time. He spent 3 years in a terrible system at Chelsea and it will take the full year for him to become acclimated to the level of sophistication our play demands. I don't know if he'll work out but I also know that judging him after 4 games is idiotic. If that was the case, Gabriel, Odegaard, Viera, White, Ramsdale, Xhaka (at the time) would all be on different teams and Saka would still be a LB. The amount of discourse among everyone on Havertz after 4 games is annoying as fuck. 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Mexal

[Spockydog]

14 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Or another way to put it, we completely controlled the game (United had 17 passes total in final third) and we had ample opportunities to take the lead, including Saka missing a 10 yard sitter from middle of the goal.

We have to give Havertz time. He spent 3 years in a terrible system at Chelsea and it will take the full year for him to become acclimated to the level of sophistication our play demands. I don't know if he'll work out but I also know that judging him after 4 games is idiotic. If that was the case, Gabriel, Odegaard, Viera, White, Ramsdale, Xhaka (at the time) would all be on different teams and Saka would still be a LB. The amount of discourse among everyone on Havertz after 4 games is annoying as fuck. 

I want him to succeed, but, right now, he's having a bit of a nightmare. 

That air kick was symptomatic of a player devoid of confidence. I don't think Arteta is doing the player any favours by continually starting him. 

As Gunnerblog said, there is a Havertz-sized hole in this team. 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Spockydog

[ljkeane]

15 minutes ago, Mexal said:

United had 17 passes total in final third

Er, no they didn't. 74 according to Opta.

[polishgenius]

Rubiales will be pleased to know the celebrity endorsements are coming in.

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Mexal said:

We have to give Havertz time. He spent 3 years in a terrible system at Chelsea and it will take the full year for him to become acclimated to the level of sophistication our play demands. I don't know if he'll work out but I also know that judging him after 4 games is idiotic.

 

A quality player shouldn't be taking a full year to be adapting to any system no matter how sophisticated. On the other hand, even the best player is allowed to take that kind of time to adapt to a position that he's never played before. So I do agree that he should be given more time- but I also think Arteta is throwing him under the bus by having that time be in the first team. He should be getting moments, some time in his more accustomed positions too, and then as and if he gets more profficient he should be slid into that deeper role. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Mexal said:

The amount of discourse among everyone on Havertz after 4 games is annoying as fuck. 

Yeah, this is where I am on this is as well. When we signed Odegaard on loan, he was okay but he only really found his feet 4/6 months in and went to another level the season after. And like you state, there are plenty of other examples too.

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

- but I also think Arteta is throwing him under the bus by having that time be in the first team.

You can argue this both ways - you can easily argue that after talking him up all week, he shouldn't be dropping him. And these things can work both ways.

As for players taking time; Partey took 6-8 months before he got really got up to speed in that midfield. We had lots of games where he just wasn't doing well that people have forgotten about. There are lots of examples that Mexal has cited.

Also, our entire left side is quite different given that on the left we've had Timber, Zinechenko, Tomiyasu & Kiwior all play on the left - it's not easy to adapt when you've got so much change around you.

I'm pretty serene about Havertz because of all of the above - Viera & Havertz ( and maybe Rice) will all compete for that place.

Edited September 4, 2023 by Raja

[Mexal]

1 hour ago, ljkeane said:

Er, no they didn't. 74 according to Opta.

Fair. Maybe it was touches in the box. I should bookmark these things so I can find them at a later date; it was definitely something like that. Basically, United wasn't very threatening outside of two breaks no matter how much possession they had. That was more my point. 47 successful passes in final third vs Arsenal's 167 is the point I was landing on. 

1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

I want him to succeed, but, right now, he's having a bit of a nightmare. 

That air kick was symptomatic of a player devoid of confidence. I don't think Arteta is doing the player any favours by continually starting him. 

As Gunnerblog said, there is a Havertz-sized hole in this team. 

 

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

A quality player shouldn't be taking a full year to be adapting to any system no matter how sophisticated. On the other hand, even the best player is allowed to take that kind of time to adapt to a position that he's never played before. So I do agree that he should be given more time- but I also think Arteta is throwing him under the bus by having that time be in the first team. He should be getting moments, some time in his more accustomed positions too, and then as and if he gets more profficient he should be slid into that deeper role. 

I agree with both of you. I still think the stick is too much. Literally everyone talks about it and maybe it's because I consume more things related to Arsenal than other teams, but the fact that Havertz seems to dictate all of the pre-match discussion is just annoying me. I suspect when we go to two games a week, he'll start being rotated more, especially as players like Viera continually bring end product.

[polishgenius]

The accusations against Antony out in the opening now. Another sickening cunt. 


 

 

8 minutes ago, Raja said:

As for players taking time; Partey took 6-8 months before he got really got up to speed in that midfield. We had lots of games where he just wasn't doing well that people have forgotten about. There are lots of examples that Mexal has cited.

 

 

Yeah, but he wasn't doing shit. Likewise Odegaard, with the added layer that he was still developing as a player in general when you got him. 

[Wilbur]

7 hours ago, ljkeane said:

The clip going round of Micah Richards and Roy Keane in an altercation with a guy was apparently due to him aiming a headbutt at Roy Keane. What an absolute dickhead.

The current iteration of Roy Keane seems like an almost sweet person, despite his sometimes-grumpy views about modern players.  A lot of people who work with him genuinely appear to like him, even Souness.

But surely an Arsenal fan needs to be well over-served to try one on with Roy Keane, given what we know of him in his previous playing days.  And maybe it is proof of how Keane has mellowed to see that he just walked away from it.