BigFatCoward Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 35 minutes ago, Proudfeet said: Yeah, and Holmgren wasn't the number one pick while Wembanyama was projected to go first immediately after they finished with the 2022 draft and there was zero ambiguity over where he would be drafted. As far as preseason, he was the runaway favourite. This different rules, new country and lifestyle aren't new details. Terrible take, take a lap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proudfeet Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 17 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Americans really don't get sarcasm at all. Not American, and can you blame me given how your only response is his stats and how he's so disadvantaged given his background with nothing on how he actually plays? 11 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Terrible take, take a lap. What's wrong with it? Are you denying that Wembanyama was the preseason favourite now? The only thing that has changed since then is that the games have been played. His background hasn't changed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 15 minutes ago, Proudfeet said: What's wrong with it? Are you denying that Wembanyama was the preseason favourite now? The only thing that has changed since then is that the games have been played. His background hasn't changed. Just failing to appreciate how long it would take a 19 year old to assimilate in another country with another language and another system compared to Holmgren. And he was number 2, not number 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proudfeet Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 20 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Just failing to appreciate how long it would take a 19 year old to assimilate in another country with another language and another system compared to Holmgren. And he was number 2, not number 20. Yes, Holmgren was the second pick and Wembanyama was still the overwhelming preseason favourite. These are all known factors that haven't and wouldn't change. As it appears that I have problems understanding, can you just answer with yes/no. Was Wembanyama the preseason favourite or not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 This whole conversation seems a bit more hostile than is warranted, IMO. Proudfeet is right that Holmgren has been better than Wemby this year, and it isn't even all that close. He has better numbers, and he is doing a lot more to help a winning team actually win, rather than Wemby's spotty performances. BFC is right that Wemby has been better recently as he begins to uncover more of his incredible potential. If he continues that improvement trajectory for the rest of the year (we're basically halfway), then he will be better than Holmgren at the end of the year, and at that point ROTY would indeed be in question. However, expecting him to continue to improve in a steady fashion is pretty unrealistic, as young players always struggle and have setbacks as opponents make adjustments against them, injuries and fatigue pile up, etc. It is much more likely that VW shows modest, but uneven improvement, but still struggles with putting together complete games, just as he has the first half of the year. baxus, Arakasi and Rhom 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 im actually shocked neither chet nor wemby have been injured yet. I def have more long term stock in Wemby, even if Chet is probably going to win ROTY Rhom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Relic said: im actually shocked neither chet nor wemby have been injured yet. Absolutely. You look at these guys stick-insect figures and immediately think, "Ralph Sampson's hairy moustache! Surely this guy can't last five years in the league!" But then, Kevin Durant may have been an inflection point where a crazy-tall and skinny guy went and is going the distance in the NBA. Perhaps now sports-medical science can keep these guys on the floor, given sensible management (Spurs and the 24-minute limit) and discipline from the players themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Wilbur said: But then, Kevin Durant may have been an inflection point where a crazy-tall and skinny guy went and is going the distance in the NBA. Perhaps now sports-medical science can keep these guys on the floor, given sensible management (Spurs and the 24-minute limit) and discipline from the players themselves. Also, ya know, the game is much less physical due to rule changes, officiating, and style of play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 KD also put on a lot of weight. He was listed at 215 coming out of college and has been around 240 for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 KD also has been injured a fair deal the second half of his career. I doubt both big men stay healthy their career. Heck Chet already missed a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted January 20 Author Share Posted January 20 5 hours ago, DMC said: Also, ya know, the game is much less physical due to rule changes, officiating, and style of play. Which makes kareem even more of an outlier. He was skinny as shit, he really was ahead of the curve with self care. Wilbur 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 15 hours ago, DMC said: Also, ya know, the game is much less physical due to rule changes, officiating, and style of play. That is very true. The skinny guys don't have to take the beatings they would have 30 years ago. Still, it is an 82-game season, and the wear and tear have to be tremendous. As BFC said, Kareem was way, way ahead oof the curve when it came to preserving his health. Edited January 20 by Wilbur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 22 minutes ago, Wilbur said: That is very true. The skinny guys don't have to take the beatings they would have 30 years ago. Still, it is an 82-game season, and the wear and tear have to be tremendous. As BFC said, Kareem was way, way ahead oof the curve when it came to preserving his health. Kareem also didn't enter the league as a teenager. That does matter when you don't have a man's body yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Most big men in the league with injury issues is not because of the banging or physical play. It’s because human bodies just don’t work as well at those extreme ends. For example classic issues with feet and big men. Also with more speed than ever in todays game more of a chance of knee and Achilles injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 43 minutes ago, Arakasi said: Most big men in the league with injury issues is not because of the banging or physical play. It’s because human bodies just don’t work as well at those extreme ends. For example classic issues with feet and big men. Also with more speed than ever in todays game more of a chance of knee and Achilles injuries. It does cut both ways though. Bam is the type of center I'd want, but he gets destroyed by bigger dudes. I don't think there's any correct answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 1 hour ago, Arakasi said: Most big men in the league with injury issues is not because of the banging or physical play. Well, in today's league, sure. That's kinda the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 (edited) 4 hours ago, DMC said: Well, in today's league, sure. That's kinda the point. Even back then, Walton for example didn’t have issues because of physical play. His body just couldn’t handle it and he had chronic foot injuries. Odens knees gave out. Samson was never the same after his knee gave out. Yao Ming as well with foot injuries. Webbers knee, etc. Big Z with feet again. None of these big men had their careers ended by “physical” play. Edited January 20 by Arakasi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 3 minutes ago, Arakasi said: Even back then, Walton for example didn’t have issues because of physical play. His body just couldn’t handle it and he had chronic foot injuries. Odens knees gave out. Samson was never the same after his knee gave out. Yao Ming as well with foot injuries. Webbers knee, etc. Big Z with feet again. None of these big men had their careers ended by “physical” play. I mean, sure. But there are plenty of counter-examples that did deal with numerous injuries based on the physical toll throughout their careers. Hell, the best of the 90s, pretty much all of them. Definitely Ewing and Robinson. And, of course, Shaq. These two ways in which big men get injured, of course, weren't and aren't mutually exclusive. But the point is the physical toll aspect is a lot less of an issue than it used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakasi Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 And none of those above players had their careers ended early. Ewing and Robinson both had long careers, at 17 and 14 respectively. Shaq almost went 20. Partly it’s because going both tall and big has a large toll on the body., more so than the average NBA height player. Sure those players got banged up but we’re remarkably healthy in spite of it. But if we’re talking about chronic injuries that ended careers early then big men are way more predominant and that is not because of physical play. It is generally because the body is not build to handle supporting that much height and weight. It is why you see far more foot injuries with bigger players. Do you recall many 6’6” or less players with foot injuries? Not really. Modern game should help because there won’t be the pressure to bulk up as much so you’ll see more tall gangly types. But it also doesn’t help because modern game has far more movement and athleticism which puts those players at risk more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 6 minutes ago, Arakasi said: And none of those above players had their careers ended early. Ewing and Robinson both had long careers, at 17 and 14 respectively. No, but they dealt with injuries throughout their careers and their careers were significantly shortened - in terms of years and availability due to it. And the list goes very well beyond that, just highlighted the biggest names. Rik Smits - who actually is closer to the original conversation at 7'4", 250, would be another example. This is very clear, seems like you're arguing for argument's sake. I never said very tall players weren't inherently more susceptible to certain career-threatening injuries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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