US Politics: Happy Anniversary.

[Gareth]

On 1/6/2024 at 11:01 PM, BigFatCoward said:

She is infinitely more qualified than most, yet still not qualified in the slightest. 

 

One way to judge Michelle Obama's qualification would be to look at her initiatives or agenda while as the first lady.  Michelle Obama's main agenda as FLOTUS was childhood obesity.  This is a tough health issue to take on.  Her agenda required the coordination of multiple federal departments (agriculture & education),and numerous federal programs.  It also required getting a crucial bill, the Healthy, Hungry-Free Act, thru Congress.  I think what Michelle Obama did with her Let's Move initiative to fight childhood obesity is a testament for her qualification for POTUS.  She demonstrated that she can enact an agenda, which to me is an important qualification for POTUS.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

56 minutes ago, Gareth said:

One way to judge Michelle Obama's qualification would be to look at her initiatives or agenda while as the first lady.  Michelle Obama's main agenda as FLOTUS was childhood obesity.  This is a tough health issue to take on.  Her agenda required the coordination of multiple federal departments (agriculture & education),and numerous federal programs.  It also required getting a crucial bill, the Healthy, Hungry-Free Act, thru Congress.  I think what Michelle Obama did with her Let's Move initiative to fight childhood obesity is a testament for her qualification for POTUS.  She demonstrated that she can enact an agenda, which to me is an important qualification for POTUS.

I'm someone who wishes we could have a high standard for the office of the president, including the expectation of extensive experience in organizational leadership and hopefully government of some kind. But we don't live in my dream world, we live in a place that's far more driven by celebrity. We have to deal with the world we have, not the world we'd rather have.

In that spirit, here's an example that goes against the conventional narrative: Volodymyr Zelenskyy, a comedian with no conventionally relevant experience becomes the leader of a nation that is suddenly drawn into war--and he's been doing an excellent job rallying his people and his allies to navigate those difficult circumstances. 

The ability for a leader to communicate to a populace where they actually care about what you're saying is a talent that tends to get overlooked when assessing presidential credentials, and it's maybe more important now than ever. Barack Obama had that gift, and Michelle Obama has that too. 

[BigFatCoward]

1 hour ago, Gareth said:

One way to judge Michelle Obama's qualification would be to look at her initiatives or agenda while as the first lady.  Michelle Obama's main agenda as FLOTUS was childhood obesity.  This is a tough health issue to take on.  Her agenda required the coordination of multiple federal departments (agriculture & education),and numerous federal programs.  It also required getting a crucial bill, the Healthy, Hungry-Free Act, thru Congress.  I think what Michelle Obama did with her Let's Move initiative to fight childhood obesity is a testament for her qualification for POTUS.  She demonstrated that she can enact an agenda, which to me is an important qualification for POTUS.

 

So she delivered one project, an easy sell with the public, in an area she would have some previous experience in (having worked in healthcare administration), in 8 years?  

That is so many levels below president its absurd to even raise it, I can't be commissioner because i did some good Inspector work, its a totally different level of responsibility and competence. 

[BigFatCoward]

5 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

I'm someone who wishes we could have a high standard for the office of the president, including the expectation of extensive experience in organizational leadership and hopefully government of some kind. But we don't live in my dream world, we live in a place that's far more driven by celebrity. We have to deal with the world we have, not the world we'd rather have.

In that spirit, here's an example that goes against the conventional narrative: Volodymyr Zelenskyy, a comedian with no conventionally relevant experience becomes the leader of a nation that is suddenly drawn into war--and he's been doing an excellent job rallying his people and his allies to navigate those difficult circumstances. 

The ability for a leader to communicate to a populace where they actually care about what you're saying is a talent that tends to get overlooked when assessing presidential credentials, and it's maybe more important now than ever. Barack Obama had that gift, and Michelle Obama has that too. 

Conversely some of the worst presidents in my lifetime were elected on the back of either celebrity or name recognition (Reagan, Bush junior and Trump).  So lets do less of that unless there is an overwhelmingly good reason to do so. 

I'm not sure lovely and vaguely competent are good enough.  

However i reiterate, I'd have her before either of those useless old fucks in a heartbeat. 

Edited January 8 by BigFatCoward

[Phylum of Alexandria]

2 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Conversely some of the worst presidents in my lifetime were elected on the back of either celebrity or name recognition (Reagan, Bush junior and Trump).  So lets do less of that unless there is an overwhelmingly good reason to do so. 

I'm not sure lovely and vaguely competent are good enough.  

Sure. Character also matters. 

The risks of celebrity leaders were always there, and still are there. My point is that maybe we've overlearned our lesson against them, and overlook more reasonable possibilities because of the worst examples.

[Jace, Extat]

I'd rather be governed by a glass of water than by Michele Obama. 

But then, I'd rather be governed by a bowl of shit than Donald Trump...

Who's to say what's decent these days?

[Phylum of Alexandria]

32 minutes ago, Jace, Extat said:

I'd rather be governed by _______ than Donald Trump

I mean, this is an almost neverending Mad Libs. To include:

1. Dick Cheney (what the fuck, world?)

2. Sarah Palin (almost the same, but doesn't have Trump's tenacity)

3. Kanye West (at least he has bouts of lucidity and guilt)

4. Some random 8 year old child (hey, if we're doing tortured readings of the 14th amendment for insurrection, why not age?)

Edited January 8 by Phylum of Alexandria

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

 

So she delivered one project, an easy sell with the public, in an area she would have some previous experience in (having worked in healthcare administration), in 8 years?  

That is so many levels below president its absurd to even raise it, I can't be commissioner because i did some good Inspector work, its a totally different level of responsibility and competence. 

You have absolutely no awareness of how dumbshit Americans reacted to an educated black woman trying to get their kids to eat more vegetables, do you?

[Gareth]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

 

So she delivered one project, an easy sell with the public, in an area she would have some previous experience in (having worked in healthcare administration), in 8 years?  

That is so many levels below president its absurd to even raise it, I can't be commissioner because i did some good Inspector work, its a totally different level of responsibility and competence. 

Not sure if you are rewriting history or didn't paid attention to U.S. politics at the times.  During the Obama administrations, the GOP did everything to obstruct or stone-wall any agendas coming out of the White House, regardless of how popular or "easy sell" it was.   The Tea party started the tribal mentality of what you see now in Congress.  Its hard to get anything done back then and even more so now.  

 

[BigFatCoward]

1 hour ago, DanteGabriel said:

You have absolutely no awareness of how dumbshit Americans reacted to an educated black woman trying to get their kids to eat more vegetables, do you?

 

My point was its not like she was trying to change gun laws, abortion legislation etc. Its not 'really' contentious, people might rail against her, but most normal people wouldn't be against the idea. 

Yoi got some facts and figures cos I couldn't find any. I'm sure there was a loud, obnoxious minority spouting off but what did the man on the street think? 

Also some quick research showed it wasn't actually very successful, so I'm not sure how that's a ringing endorsement of her political leadership. 

Edited January 8 by BigFatCoward

[BigFatCoward]

27 minutes ago, Gareth said:

Not sure if you are rewriting history or didn't paid attention to U.S. politics at the times.  During the Obama administrations, the GOP did everything to obstruct or stone-wall any agendas coming out of the White House, regardless of how popular or "easy sell" it was.   The Tea party started the tribal mentality of what you see now in Congress.  Its hard to get anything done back then and even more so now.  

 

So your endorsement of her is 'she tried and failed'? 

How is a single issue advocate suitable for high office? You need a depth and breath of knowledge far I'm excess of anything she has ever shown. 

Jamie Oliver isn't suitable to be PM and he seems to have done a better, similar job with fewer resources at his disposal. 

Edited January 8 by BigFatCoward

[IheartIheartTesla]

She didnt 'fail', thats an uncharitable analysis of the program itself. When you are done oscillating between the two binary outcomes you have chosen for the program, maybe we can talk about the fact that even Barack Obama had a very thin legislative resume before he became President, and managed to be quite successful. I have no doubt Michelle would do equally well. 

As many Americans in this thread are trying to get through to you, competence doesnt imply electability. Hillary was the most qualified candidate in a generation in 2016, and that didnt help her. We'd rather anyone get to the office rather than Trump, competence be damned.

 

Edited to soften tone a bit

Edited January 8 by IheartIheartTesla

[Zorral]

9 hours ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said:

Carter wasn't a very good President

Don't forget that Carter retroactively pardoned Jefferson Davis from any charges of treason and insurrection and re-instated him as a fully fledged rights owning citizen of the USA, allowed again to hold federal offices.  The Rumpanistas are taking cues from that. 

3 hours ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

intentionally fuzzy concept in my short summary

Leaving out again though, the point I was making that this very significant part of his voting base are xtian Dominionists, and there are millions of them, who see him as their savior and messiah ushering in the golden times when the country will be ruled by them and their laws.

The African gods save me, but I have some of those in my family.  We haven't spoken in years.

[Phylum of Alexandria]

5 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Leaving out again though, the point I was making that this very significant part of his voting base are xtian Dominionists, and there are millions of them, who see him as their savior and messiah ushering in the golden times when the country will be ruled by them and their laws.

Lol, there's a ton of other stuff left out as well. That's the problem of short summaries. 

[Conflicting Thought]

29 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

and managed to be quite successful.

in implemetning neoliberal policy, my understanding is that obama was not the savior everyone was expecting, quite the contrary he governed with wall street, and comited horrible acts agains humanity with the drone bombing, etc. having said that i suposse he is still better than donald fucking trump but the bar is on hell

[Martell Spy]

6 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:

in implemetning neoliberal policy, my understanding is that obama was not the savior everyone was expecting, quite the contrary he governed with wall street, and comited horrible acts agains humanity with the drone bombing, etc. having said that i suposse he is still better than donald fucking trump but the bar is on hell

Because of drone bombings Obama accomplished nothing. That's very weak sauce.

Forget Republican Presidents. Tell us which Democratic party President was better in your lifetime. Are you here to shill for Biden?

 

[Phylum of Alexandria]

1 minute ago, Martell Spy said:

Are you here to shill for Biden?

Hey, Biden has had an extremely productive first term, particularly given the tiny majorities he had to work with in Congress. Obama passed the ACA, which was a BFD, but he also started his presidency with a much larger Congressional majority.

And yes, both administrations have plenty of disappointments too. I'd love to end our era of neoliberalism in favor of community-minded liberalism, but if that happens at all it won't for quite a while. 

[BigFatCoward]

59 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

 

As many Americans in this thread are trying to get through to you, competence doesnt imply electability.

We'd rather anyone get to the office rather than Trump, competence be damned.

 

 

Never been my position, no idea why you would think it was. Competence implies competence has always been my position, elected officials should be held to a higher standard.

Nice kind face, nice hair and pleasant manner and chose her husband well doesn't cut it for me.  If she was Michelle Smith everyone would laugh if she ran for election. She wouldn't raise a single penny with her background outside of her husband.

She's done nothing to prove her competence (though getting so much money for such a boring book implies some low cunning). 

As to your second point, I've made that very point muself at least twice also. Are you reading what I'm writing or just the headlines? 

Edited January 8 by BigFatCoward

[Zorral]

34 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

Lol, there's a ton of other stuff left out as well. That's the problem of short summaries. 

Much of what drives the support for Hitler spouting rumpistas and the rest of their ilks may well be described like this, from an obituary in the NYT of historian Arno J. Mayer.

Arno J. Mayer, Unorthodox Historian of Europe’s Crises, Dies at 97
A Jewish refugee from the Nazis, he argued that World War I, World War II and the Holocaust were all part of a “second Thirty Years’ War.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/06/world/europe/arno-j-mayer-dead.html

“If Hitler’s worldview had an epicenter,” he [Dr. Mayer] wrote, “it was his deep-seated animosity toward contemporary civilization, and not his hatred for Jews, which was grafted onto it.”

[A Horse Named Stranger]

In a perfect world, Manchema would've been team players. But yeah, Biden objectively had a very good first term (as the Saint of Higher Education in Florida, whose name I may not mention had pointed out, before he was taken away from us), before the midterms. Had the Democrats held onto the House, who knows. Maybe he would've given the Green Deal a second go.

So let us gather in prayer dear brothers and sisters.

Saint D, who went to purgatory (or Florida), blessed be thy name...