Zorral Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Quote A crowd of Israelis tried to block the entrance of aid trucks into Gaza on Thursday, objecting to humanitarian assistance that they said mainly serves to prolong Hamas’s hold on the enclave. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/01/18/israel-hamas-gaza-hostages-families/ kissdbyfire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Just now, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: Okay, then how would you remove Hamas? Also FYI Gaza isn't all of Palestinian society. More Palestinians live in each the WB and Jordan than in Gaza. As I previously if I really think I know, I should be where it would good. Nentanyahu and Ben Iver gone by night of that day. Talk to Qatar, who is their economic backer, on getting it stopped. Discuss with either PA on what can be on some basic civil level, and some outline for the future (be radical and talk with Barghouti). Isolate them financially and politically, and give something for Gazans to look to get rid of them. A formation of more multi-national force, super awesome to get some neighbors involve, to handle the aftermath situation in terms of security. Destroying civil institution is deeply stupid and troubling unless your goal is to destroy a civil society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 9 minutes ago, polishgenius said: You also have to accept that at this point Israel is here to stay Israel could sit in Bavaria with Nuremburg for its capital or Atlantis for all I care. The Palestinians did not drive Jews out of Palestine/Israel/whatever other peoples call that place. They don't deserve to live in an open-air prison with chokepoints guarded by a hostile power who could choose to start crimes against humanity whenever they wish. Just check the UNSC delegation to Rafah. Link here. Edited January 19 by SaffronLady You know what, maybe I'll just put a link here. It's a good starting point to read about what exactly they saw in Gaza. straits 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 minute ago, SaffronLady said: They don't deserve to live in an open-air prison They don't, so we're in the right direction already. The hostile powers of Egypt and Israel probably has a lot to do with the fact that Hamas are Islamist terrorists who would happily overthrow the governments of both Egypt and Israel, given the opportunity. Strange, really, how that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 “We have no right to stop the fighting as long as there are hostages in Gaza,” Israeli Defense Secretary Yoav Gallant said Thursday in a radio interview. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu echoed Gallant in an evening address to the nation, pushing back on growing international calls for an end to the conflict: “We strive to achieve total victory,” he said. “This is not just a matter of hitting Hamas, this is not another round with Hamas — this is a complete victory. But several released hostages have said the bombings seemed to leave Hamas unfazed and, in some cases, killed or injured hostages. Merav Svirsky, the sister of a hostage recently reported dead inside Gaza, blamed the continued combat for his demise after his long captivity. Both of his parents were killed in the initial Hamas attacks. .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said: but it is utter idiocy to imply anything allows for genocide. Indeed. And as it happens, that is precisely the gist of the genocide convention. Ser Scot A Ellison, fionwe1987 and straits 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I have no idea if what this mother of an Israeli soldier who was taken hostage and killed is right or not. So far I haven’t found any proper debunking of her claims, and this is in at least 3 Israeli news outlets. I also cannot imagine her pain and, if she is right, that pain gets multiplied by... I don’t even know how much. https://m.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-782544 Quote Ron Sherman’s mother, Maya, published a post yesterday in which she accused the IDF of mistakingly killing her son. “The results of the investigation: Ron was indeed murdered,” she wrote. “Not by Hamas. Think more in the direction of Auschwitz and the showers but without Nazis and without Hamas as the cause. No accidental shooting, no report, premeditated murder, bombings with poisonous gases.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 21 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said: I'm sorry, but revenge genocide, or genocide as part of a response to genuine grievance, or a struggle for freedom, is still genocide, and just as justifiable. Especially because there are quite well established boundaries of armed/violent resistance towards what palestinians endure, under international law. These are boundaries Hamas, for the most part of it, does not abide by, neither by words nor by actions. Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: Right. So we slap both sides with the same moral stick, regardless of their respective positions, is this the game we are playing now? How is Hamas supposed to actually pull off their stated goal of "from the river to the sea" anyway? Israel has the backing of the USA. No UNSC sanctions could be imposed; no UNSC casus belli could be provided. And of course as the esteemed Mr. Erdan says, "the United Nations has not an ounce of legitimacy". But of course! Let us demand Palestinians deny themselves the right of fighting back, since taking up arms to defend themselves already constitutes genocide! Ones right of resistance or defense does not excuse you from all laws and morality. I may understand a lot on Palestinians resistance yet I am not going view it other than tragic. It is not even in Liberal Zionist of "Palestinian hate Jews more than love their children". nonsense. 15 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: Israel could sit in Bavaria with Nuremburg for its capital or Atlantis for all I care. The Palestinians did not drive Jews out of Palestine/Israel/whatever other peoples call that place. They don't deserve to live in an open-air prison with chokepoints guarded by a hostile power who could choose to start crimes against humanity whenever they wish. Just check the UNSC delegation to Rafah. Link here. No it is not deserve. Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 4 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said: I don't care what excuse someone has, genocide is immoral. Genocide demands retribution. Few are the cases where retribution is denied. Of course, given all the international pressure and attention, ultimately there would be some restraint ... if by some miracle, Palestine is free again. I'm saying anything goes for Hamas because when I actually look at the news, everything goes ... for Israel, except for UN resolutions, and that's not much. Not when Israel kills foreign reporters and UNRWA workers with impunity, and calls them all "Hamas Nazis who must be eliminated". 11 minutes ago, fionwe1987 said: you think Hamas and Fatah should duke it out In elections. Not in a military free-for-all. 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: There are lots of “Israeli Arabs”… you know that… right? Yes, the Druze, other minority sects who don't like neither Sunnis nor Shi'ites, I know, of course I know. 8 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Would Jews be allowed to remained in such a State? Not my call. 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Pushing all Jews out of Israel or killing all who remain… isn’t genocide? And why are there all these Jews in the first place? When previously, under Osmanli rule, there were much fewer, and much more concentrated in cities? Who is responsible for pushing Arabs out of lands they lived for centuries, killing them, tearing down their houses, denying them water? "Oh it's all eighty years ago, but the Hamas attacks are today!" Why do you think Hamas is attacking today? For no reason? Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: How is murdering people at music festivals and kidnapping men, women, and children… “fighting back”? My post mentioning a similar incident 90 years ago was deleted for some reason. Feel free to look up the Wu-she Incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Just now, SaffronLady said: Genocide demands retribution Good thing there's no genocide going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 And there is no war in Ba Sing Se. straits, Daeron the Daring, fionwe1987 and 1 other 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 10 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: My post mentioning a similar incident 90 years ago was deleted for some reason. Feel free to look up the Wu-she Incident. So… an eye for an eye from an incident almost a century ago. Hamas… and Likud… are evil. Edited January 19 by Ser Scot A Ellison kissdbyfire 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron the Daring Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Rippounet said: And there is no war in Ba Sing Se. It never happened, but they would've deserved it anyway. Edited January 19 by Daeron the Daring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 “We didn’t topple Hamas,” Gift share link: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/01/19/world/israel-hamas-news/a-minister-in-israels-war-cabinet-exposes-deep-rifts-in-the-government-in-a-televised-interview? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 2 minutes ago, Zorral said: “We didn’t topple Hamas,” Gift share link: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/01/19/world/israel-hamas-news/a-minister-in-israels-war-cabinet-exposes-deep-rifts-in-the-government-in-a-televised-interview? I can’t open it! Tears of Lys 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 12 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: Yes, the Druze, other minority sects who don't like neither Sunnis nor Shi'ites, I know, of course I know. Are you really suggesting that every Israeli Arab (more than two million people) is Druze? And that because they are Druze… they don’t count??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaffronLady Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Are you really suggesting that every Israeli Arab (more than two million people) is Druze? No. To the best of my knowledge, some of them are Sunni, and a further few are Gazans who are grateful for the breadcrumbs Israelis feed them after robbing them of bread. 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: And that because they are Druze… they don’t count??? I don't understand the question. Tears of Lys 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 12 minutes ago, SaffronLady said: Genocide demands retribution.. Ah, so you're not arguing for the removal of all white American, Canadian, Australian and New Zealand citizens? You're arguing for their slaughter? . Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 minute ago, SaffronLady said: No. To the best of my knowledge, some of them are Sunni, and a further few are Gazans who are grateful for the breadcrumbs Israelis feed them after robbing them of bread. I don't understand the question. Your comment is very dismissive of Israel’s Arab citizens. You seem to imply “Arab Minorities” somehow don’t count in your suggestion that pushing all Israelis out of Israel is just an awsome goal: Quote Yes, the Druze, other minority sects who don't like neither Sunnis nor Shi'ites, I know, of course I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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