Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Kyoshi said: I understand people not wanting to let Trump in, but honestly, I understand people wanting to get abandon Biden even more. What exactly is the difference between Democrats and Republicans right now? Biden isn’t deliberately undermining Democracy, threatening to deport Muslims, and actively supporting the Russian dictator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 47 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said: The American voter gets zero input on foreign policy. Not true. If Trump is elected we can guarantee he will tell Ukraine to go fuck itself. That is a huge influence on foreign policy held by US Voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 12 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said: Do you think a person can do the moral or ethical math on that and come up with a different answer? Do you think that bullying someone about vague concepts like honor and telling them to be an adult is going to get them to the polls? Actually yes because I have worked in political communications. But let's get to your first point. 8 minutes ago, Kyoshi said: because they're still on the bare basics, just trying to get the government to stop supporting, arming and funding a genocidal regime that is wiping out their families. And so their plan is to help Republicans win who will be even worse? . Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 12 minutes ago, Kyoshi said: I don't know bro, genocide is a pretty big issue to most. I'm going to say the following with the assumption that you're white and male, in which case, I will hint that perhaps your democracy is not the same democracy experienced by people who do not fall under those demographics. The fact that you can so easily fill pages upon pages with apathetic, empathy-bankrupt rhetoric should tell you how differently you and I experience the world. That's not ad hominem by the way, just the underlying factors that inform our respective politics. "More important" issues to you are too high in the sky for some voters, because they're still on the bare basics, just trying to get the government to stop supporting, arming and funding a genocidal regime that is wiping out their families. But again, that's not important enough for you, because you have "bigger issues" to focus on. That should tell why to some, blue and red are the same. Vote for Trump… then tell us how it goes for minorities and immigrants if he wins. I’m sure it will be lovely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) I give up. I hope the cultural gaps between us don't translate this as an insult, but it seems I have entered a circus and now I'm complaining there are clowns there. Edited February 27 by Kyoshi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 4 minutes ago, Kyoshi said: I give up. I say this with all the respect in the world, I hope the cultural gaps between us don't translate this as an insult, but it seems I have entered a circus and now I'm complaining there are clowns there. You are offering apologia for the man who wants to deport Muslims for being Muslim… and call us clowns for saying that’s a really poor idea. Zorral 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 10 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: You are offering apologia for the man who wants to deport Muslims for being Muslim… and call us clowns for saying that’s a really poor idea. You're not being called a clown for thinking deporting Muslim's is a bad idea, Scot. I think you'd have to be arguing in pretty poor faith to make that assumption. Zorral, kissdbyfire and straits 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 24 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: and actively supporting the Russian dictator. He is, however, actively supporting the Israeli authoritarian PM who is having his own police violently stomp down his own people who are bravely trying to protest against him. And that’s on top of all the military aid, so the argument can be made that Biden’s support of Netanyahu is even stronger than Mango’s vain threats about Ukraine and his pathetic worshiping of the Russian dictator. straits, Craving Peaches and Zorral 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 50 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: Voting is strategic and you have to often vote for people you despise. I suspect you're being disingenuous because you actually agree with Biden on this issue and don't want to see a policy change but if this is an issue you care about the strategic thing to do it make it clear it's going to cost votes. What politicians really care about is issues that'll cost them elections. The orthodox political position in the US, for both parties, is incredibly pro Israel. I suspect Palestinian supporters can just give up on Republicans but if this issue costs Biden a Presidential Election you can be pretty sure the it'll be an issue the Democrats take seriously next time out. Kyoshi and Zorral 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said: He is, however, actively supporting the Israeli authoritarian PM who is having his own police violently stomp down his own people who are bravely trying to protest against him. And that’s on top of all the military aid, so the argument can be made that Biden’s support of Netanyahu is even stronger than Mango’s vain threats about Ukraine and his pathetic worshiping of the Russian dictator. And I think Biden is wrong to do that but I’m not willing to pay the price throwing my support to a third party candidate might bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 6 minutes ago, ljkeane said: Democrats take seriously next time out. Bold of you to assume there will be another US Election if Trump and Republicans win in 2024. Edited February 27 by Ser Scot A Ellison Prince of the North 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ljkeane said: I suspect you're being disingenuous because you actually agree with Biden on this issue and don't want to see a policy change but if this is an issue you care about the strategic thing to do it make it clear it's going to cost votes. What politicians really care about is issues that'll cost them elections. The orthodox political position in the US, for both parties, is incredibly pro Israel. I suspect Palestinian supporters can just give up on Republicans but if this issue costs Biden a Presidential Election you can be pretty sure the it'll be an issue the Democrats take seriously next time out. Not really, and in the process they'll help elect someone who toys around with wanting to be a dictator and will be even worse on the issue. It's a really dumb, self defeating strategy. But good luck with that. ETA: This is the problem with the old line, Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. The willingness to own goal is so ridiculous. Edited February 27 by Mr. Chatywin et al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKitttenGuard Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 @Kyoshi I deeply empathize with this however we are dealing with a situation where yeah if one side wins they will seek to impose an, at minimum, a highly illiberal system, and a straight up Theocratic Regime with its moral leader a liable Rapist thrice divorce adulterer as realistically worse. I mean why not if you win after what has been shown the last 9 years. With the Democratic Party you have a chance to have a change of policy. I mean what is going in Gaza is tearing up the party. This is not going on the Republican Party and they will be rewarded for this Psychopathic and Sociopathic behavior if you do not vote for Biden and the Democratic Party. Yes, I am a Cis-Het White Male in his mid 40s so take all the grain of salt you have. The Demographics of this country is still massively White, older people vote more consistently then younger, and people in the end vote for their personal domestic reason than what for many is impersonal and far far away. Though yeah fuck anybody who feel like bullying Palestinian-Americans who had whole family and extended families wiped out, and had a experience just a zero fuck level concern of those in Gaza and WB. The Michigan Arab Community and Allies should absolutely use the Tuesday Primary to show their disgust with what going on. Kyoshi, Ser Scot A Ellison and straits 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 46 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: Actually yes because I have worked in political communications. But let's get to your first point. And so their plan is to help Republicans win who will be even worse? . If this was the other way around, and it was Israel being bombed by Palestine with US money and arms, would you still be making this argument? kissdbyfire, Zorral and Craving Peaches 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said: If this was the other way around, and it was Israel being bombed by Palestine with US money and arms, would you still be making this argument? Huh? The Republicans want to cheer the IDF pushing Palestinians out of Gaza… seriously… huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Huh? The Republicans want to cheer the IDF pushing Palestinians out of Gaza… seriously… huh? I'm asking if it's just a trolley problem. Vote for Dems- quiet support of genocide with arms and money Vote for GOP - accelerate genocide Don't vote- is it really the worse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 6 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said: If this was the other way around, and it was Israel being bombed by Palestine with US money and arms, would you still be making this argument? Yeah, I would. And I'm not sure what point you're even trying to make here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 minute ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: Yeah, I would. And I'm not sure what point you're even trying to make here. You would bully people into lending their electoral support to a genocide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said: I'm asking if it's just a trolley problem. Vote for Dems- quiet support of genocide with arms and money Vote for GOP - accelerate genocide Don't vote- is it really the worse? Ignoring reproductive healthcare that is on the tracks too among other things. People are already dying because of that in red states. Edited February 27 by Luzifer's right hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 minute ago, Larry of the Lawn said: You would bully people into lending their electoral support to a genocide? Biden is wrong to fail to oppose Israeli actions in Gaza. Is the way to show opposition to that to elect the party screaming that the IDF isn’t going far enough in seeking to kill Palestinians? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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