Battlestar Galactica: Frakking Hard Since 1978

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='John Quincy Adams' post='1652466' date='Jan 17 2009, 09.47']I agree that it was underwhelming, but I don't think that's terribly odd; the truth is, once RDM decided that the final Cylon wouldn't be Roslin or Adama, anybody would have been anticlimactic. I'm just glad they got that revelation out of the way and can deal with Adama killing Zarek or something.[/quote]

I'm more or less commenting in comparison to the rest of the episode. This was an excellent episode with its share of surprises, some of them HOLY FUCKING SHIT surprises. It was well put together, very tense, and worked just about every way it should've worked. I just found it ironic that the 'Great revelation' that they'd been hyping up for more than a season now...happened to be the least interesting part of it. After that great of an episode, it really felt like an unnecessary afterthought. I just found myself not really giving a shit who they labeled as the last Cylon, the rest was much more potent.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='Swordfish' post='1652654' date='Jan 17 2009, 16.30']RE: Kara.

Obviously there is some resurrection hub like dealy on earth, since we know that the 5 were nuked there, and yet are still around, presumably in new bodies.

So...... Since her viper crashed there..... possibly it's still functioning.[/quote]

Not to fall back into old habits, but you're trying to import conventional cause and effect logic into the BSG universe. Very often it doesn't apply.

[Regina]

[quote name='Etrangere' post='1652628' date='Jan 17 2009, 16.27']I saw it coming from the moment she started babysitting. Was kinda worried about Hera for a minute too.[/quote]


Agreed. All I could think was "please don't let her take anyone else down with her."

[Lord of Oop North]

I really liked the episode. I was shocked by what Dee did. That was wild.

One thing, though. In the webisodes, Gaeta went to talk to the Admiral about something ... was that followed upon in this episode at all?

For that matter ... when was [i]The Face of the Enemy[/i] supposed to have taken place?

P.S. Anyone else mad about this Season 4.0 / 4.5 DVD thing? Argh.

[Wouter]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1652573' date='Jan 17 2009, 20.25']It's our Earth. They confirmed it in show in 4.10 when they checked it against the star positions.

And there's a new interview with RDM where he says "Yes, it's Earth".[/quote]
Unless you can give a source (or verbatim quote that leaves no doubt) for the latter, there is nothing confirmed as of yet. They checked it against the star positions of the planet the 13th tribe went to, called Earth, and they definitely found that planet. Whether or not this is the same planet shown at the very end of "Crossroads", remains very doubtful. That they still haven't shown anything recognisable from the real Earth points to there being an intact Earth (with the right continents and moon and all) out there.

[Lord of Oop North]

I really hope they don't pull a 'That was a fake Earth'. That would really cheapen the drama caused by finding "Earth" in ruins and ashes.

[Wouter]

[quote name='Swordfish' post='1652654' date='Jan 17 2009, 23.30']RE: Kara.

Obviously there is some resurrection hub like dealy on earth, since we know that the 5 were nuked there, and yet are still around, presumably in new bodies.

So...... Since her viper crashed there..... possibly it's still functioning.[/quote]
Kara's original Viper didn't crash on "Earth", it was crushed in the atmosphere of a gas giant, far away from "Earth". A resurrection installation on Earth wouldn't help, presumably. The FF likely have a resurrection installation, but I'm rather expecting a mobile one, probably very similar to the hub of the 7 (likely based on the one from the 5). Or, the hub from the 7 and the hub from the 5 may be one and the same.

[denstorebog]

Wouter,

Shryke is right. RDM came out with an interview after the latest episode in... Chicago Tribune? Don't remember. They talk about a lot of shooting and on set stuff/analogies, but in the beginning of the interview, RDM confirms that
- it's Earth - in the sense that the 13th tribe went to our Earth and called it 'Earth'. In other words, the planet's location corresponds with ours, probably the geography too, but obviously the history is alternate.
- Ellen really is the 5th.
- there's nothing more to read into D's suicide than what was shown.

[Wouter]

[quote name='Lord of the North' post='1652733' date='Jan 18 2009, 01.27']I really hope they don't pull a 'That was a fake Earth'. That would really cheapen the drama caused by finding "Earth" in ruins and ashes.[/quote]
It's not fake for them. It is the home of the 13th tribe, and the planet their scriptures calls Earth. This other planet would be like New Caprica for them, another world they can live on (they may not even make the connection to the name "Earth", depending on what happens).

"Face of the enemy" is likely set a couple of episodes into S4.5. It is definitely after "sometimes a great notion", and it may take place more or less in parallel with the next episode, as the fleet has jumped away from "Earth" but there is no sign of rebellion yet.

Ellen is just about the least interesting and most unsympathetic of the characters with decent speaking parts; a very disappointing choice for the final Cylon, especially if she comes back (it would have been semi-interesting if she actually stayed dead and that caused problems for the colonials). Luckily I was warned by the - very accurate - spoilers that had already predicted Ellen (and the 13th tribe thing as well, though that was a more welcome turn of events).

[Wouter]

[quote name='denstorebog' post='1652738' date='Jan 18 2009, 01.31']Wouter,

Shryke is right. RDM came out with an interview after the latest episode in... Chicago Tribune? Don't remember. They talk about a lot of shooting and on set stuff/analogies, but in the beginning of the interview, RDM confirms that
- it's Earth - in the sense that the 13th tribe went to our Earth and called it 'Earth'. In other words, the planet's location corresponds with ours, probably the geography too, but obviously the history is alternate.[/quote]
No, I went and read it myself (so disappointing that the final Cylon was only chosen right before S4, and the whole thing was a consequence of Baltar being on the baseship, and of New Caprica I guess), and this is what is written;:
[quote][b]That planet is Earth? We’re not going to find out, “Oh, there’s this other Earth over here...” This is the only Earth we’ll see?[/b]

They have found Earth. This is the Earth that the 13th Colony discovered, they christened it Earth. They found Earth.[/quote]
Nowhere does RDM confirm that this is the Earth that has america on it, though. It is "the Earth that the 13th discovered", a planet "they christened Earth". We already knew that; they call it Earth in BSG, undeniably, and it is the planet the 13th settled on. And they have found it, obviously. Does it have the right moon, the right continents etc.? I highly doubt it. There is a reason we never get a clear view of the surface, or no recognisable moons or planets around it.

[Relic]

Saw the suicide coming but thought it was well done. First episode of the show ive enjoyed in a long time. if the next 9 episodes are of this quality that show is gonna go out with a memorable bang. hope it does.

[alguien]

I did not see the suicide coming at all and it shocked the hell out of me. I did wonder why she was featured prominently in the recap, but thought it was because she might be the 5th.

The cynical part of me thought that having her bumped off takes care of some loose ends in that it clears the way for Apollo and Starbuck, and that was why they did it. Another part of me could see, from the story's point of view, why she did it. But I always liked her character. Damn.

Interesting episode though. I didn't really buy Adama's scene in the room with Saul. But that's just being nit-picky.

Also, I couldn't hear very well, but was D's humming a red herring?

[Ebenstone]

Here's the RDM interview:

[url="http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune.com/entertainment_tv/2009/01/final-fifth-cylon-ellen-tigh-battlestar-galactica-dualla-dee-.html"]Spoilers In Article Title![/url]

He dances around it a little bit though doesn't he?

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

[quote name='Wouter' post='1652731' date='Jan 17 2009, 19.24']Unless you can give a source (or verbatim quote that leaves no doubt) for the latter, there is nothing confirmed as of yet. They checked it against the star positions of the planet the 13th tribe went to, called Earth, and they definitely found that planet.[/quote]

The star positions from that planet were taken from human constellations, visible from Earth. I think it would be unusual to find another planet called Earth where you could see all twelve signs of the Zodiac.

[mcbigski]

[quote name='Lord of the North' post='1652716' date='Jan 17 2009, 18.51']I really liked the episode. I was shocked by what Dee did. That was wild.

One thing, though. In the webisodes, Gaeta went to talk to the Admiral about something ... was that followed upon in this episode at all?

For that matter ... when was [i]The Face of the Enemy[/i] supposed to have taken place?[/quote]

Face of the Enemy takes place after Friday's night's episode, I think. The first installment said something like "x days after leaving the burnt out earth" or something like that. From the few enhanced webisodes with Jane Espenson's commentary that I watched, I got the impression that nothing in the webisodes were going to be a pivotal plot point, they might just further inform some of Gaeta's later decisions, but clearly he'd be a pretty disillusioned guy even without those events happening.

[Calibandar]

You know, I don't want to be a killjoy when this new episode has been so well received and people's hopes for the series, mine included, have been fully revitalized. It's just, reading that interview Moore's done this weekend with the Chicago Tribune is so disillusioning, to see him retconning so much and him admitting how late they came up with ( vital ) stuff. Does kill suspension of disbelief somewhat. This only bothers me because this the sort of show you can really immerse yourself in, but that in turn can only be done if it's internally consistent.

Anyway, some interesting stuff in that interview re: Earth

[quote]The part of the timeline I’m having trouble with is this: We know that the Colonies had a cataclysm 2,000 years ago, then we find out Earth had a cataclysm 2,000 years ago. Am I getting something wrong in how I’m looking at the history?

[b]No, you are getting it correctly. I can say that later, as we get through subsequent episodes, there will be more explanations, and actually all this timeline stuff does lock into place. You have to read the subsequent chapters, but it will actually make sense.[/b][/quote]

[quote]That planet is Earth? We’re not going to find out, “Oh, there’s this other Earth over here...” This is the only Earth we’ll see?

[b]They have found Earth. This is the Earth that the 13th Colony discovered, they christened it Earth. They found Earth.[/b][/quote]

On the one hand I agree with folks who say "they can't pull a this is a Fake Earth on us now!". The writers in the interview say they are proud of the fact that it came off well how they wanted to show the fleet's utter despair at finding Earth and it being a radioactive cinder. For them then to find out it isn't the real Earth after all, that would be a cop-out. I understand this sentiment. It is an argument for this being the real Earth.

On the other hand, these writers have done this before. Ellen dying was an emotional moment for some in the fleet as well and yet, they simply bring her back into the series. It's not of the same magnitude but it's the principle of it that's relevant. More importantly, I don't agree that is too late into the series to have them find the real Earth now. After all, they spend [b]just one episode [/b]on the radioactive Earth they've been searching for for 4 seasons and they're already leaving, which means they have a further 9 episodes to find another place to live. I wouldn't say that's too little time to find a Real Earth, if it exists.

Finally, this interview with Moore, I agree with Wouter here. Moore doesn't confirm it is our Earth, merely that this is the planet that the 13th Tribe found and called Earth. Granted, it seems weird for this to not be our Earth in the future but remember, the origins of mankind are still in shadow, unless we assume that the origin of mankind is really Kobol. Where does mankind come from then, if this Earth is actually the home of a race of Cylons? Do they have an Earth of their own, our Earth? I quite like this idea. Why doesn't Moore simply answer the question of whether or not they will find another Earth but instead gives a rather evasive answer?

Or are they going with a "Cylons created mankind , upon which mankind created Cylons scenario" thus explaining the "cycle never ends" stuff in another way than just referring to the endless war between the two races. And how do the Hybrids blend into this?

[G'Kar]

Is anyone actually confident that somehow at the end it will all make sense? I finally got around to catching up on season 4 and watched the new episode, and I am utterly confused. To be fair, I've been confused since the end of season 3 when the four new cylons were revealed (and probably before that also).

Does anyone have any theories as to how the final four had lives on earth, yet somehow made it back to the twelve colonies? Because I am fucking perplexed. In fact, all the shit revealed about Earth doesn't make anysense, I hope the writers are not making it up as they go along (it sometimes feels that way).

I will contiue to watch in the vain hope that all is revealed, and when I do a watch through of the entire series after the series finale, I hope all the little mysteries and inconsistencies that popped up through the show's run will fit with the explanations. I have a similar hope for Lost.

[Swordfish]

[quote name='EHK for a True GOP' post='1652666' date='Jan 17 2009, 15.47']Not to fall back into old habits, but you're trying to import conventional cause and effect logic into the BSG universe. Very often it doesn't apply.[/quote]


Well... Sure. that's why it's called speculation.

;)

[Wouter]

[quote name='Calibandar' post='1652990' date='Jan 18 2009, 14.21']You know, I don't want to be a killjoy when this new episode has been so well received and people's hopes for the series, mine included, have been fully revitalized. It's just, reading that interview Moore's done this weekend with the Chicago Tribune is so disillusioning, to see him retconning so much and him admitting how late they came up with ( vital ) stuff. Does kill suspension of disbelief somewhat. This only bothers me because this the sort of show you can really immerse yourself in, but that in turn can only be done if it's internally consistent.[/quote]
Seconded. It's amazing just how on-the-fly this show is made up. One thing that especially bothered me is that they had no idea who D'Anna apologised to (and was forgiven by) in "rapture". Especially because the way RDM ret-cons it in the interview is especially lame. D'Anna made a very personal apology (like she would have reason to make to Anders, as she tried to kill him, twice), that now is supposed to mean only that she is sorry

SPOILER: BSG

Ellen is dead - this while Tigh actually killed her and this D'Anna had nothing to do with Ellen whatsoever

. It is quite clear that RDM simply ignores "what previously happened on BSG" whenever he feels he has a cool idea. And this ends up killing the suspension of disbelief, especially since RDM really overdoes this kind of thing.

[Ran]

So, right about Ellen. That was cool. This is a very well-done episode, with some standout performances. I think the rather ... stereotypical-seeming despair of the fleet (the fight that Adama just walks through, in particular) was a bit too cliche (too many extra just moping around, looking emo), but still, it worked well enough.