The Dark Knight part deux

[Anatole Kuragin]

[quote name='potsherds' post='1447390' date='Jul 19 2008, 22.00']This is actually what I'd expect next. I think it [i]much[/i] more likely as a workable story line for Nolan's vision.[/quote]

Liam's already said he wasn't going to come back because he thought it'd be stupid. If we see Ra's again, it'll be a different (and likely worse) actor.

[Mexal]

[quote name='Anatole Kuragin' post='1447394' date='Jul 19 2008, 23.21']Liam's already said he wasn't going to come back because he thought it'd be stupid. If we see Ra's again, it'll be a different (and likely worse) actor.[/quote]

He might change his mind after he sees the success of this movie. However, I do hope he doesn't come back. I want a new villain.

[Faceless Man]

Do we get the Joker in the next film at all? Who plays him? I never realized what a brilliant actor Ledger was and what a loss his death was until seeing this movie. :cry:

[WarGalley]

I believe he was supposed to be in the 3rd film. I have no idea what they're plannign now.

[Mexal]

[quote name='Faceless Man' post='1447397' date='Jul 19 2008, 23.36']Do we get the Joker in the next film at all? Who plays him? I never realized what a brilliant actor Ledger was and what a loss his death was until seeing this movie. :cry:[/quote]

I hope we don't. I cannot picture another person playing the Joker.

Oh and in case you guys didn't read, TDK shattered Spider-Man 3's opening day box office record of $59 mil with a $66.4 mil opening.

[Guy Kilmore]

[quote name='Il Chiarimento' post='1447357' date='Jul 19 2008, 20.06']Nearly capping one of the Joker's goons before he stops him. Even before his personal tragedy Dent was willing to commit to means that might have been justified by the ends, but were still no less illegal and ruthless. He was not the white knight they hoped he would be.[/quote]
I agree with all you had to say pretty much, but I have one little nitpick. I am assuming you are refering to the scene after the "Gordon" death, where he was interrogating the henchman and flipping the coin to determine if he is going to shoot him or not. Dent's coin is a two headed coin, he wasn't going to shoot him unless he called heads first.

[dits]

I agree with Mexal. Nolan shouldn't use another actor to play the Joker aside from Heath. While its a shame that the Batman won't be facing the Joker in any new Nolan Batman flick, Ledger jput on an iconic performance and I don't think another actor could top that playing the same role. Better they tackle other rogues from Batman's gallery. The guys at IGN had some interesting suggestions for a new Mr.Freeze and maybe the Ventriloquist.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

Why is everyone assuming that the Nolans will be involved in the third film? IIRC I read an interview within the last week or two (my google-fu is failing me, unfortunately) in which Chris said that he doesn't have any desire to do a third. Further, he put everything into TDK that he had ever wanted to see in a Batman film. Of course, then he added that he felt the same way after finishing the first movie, so...

[quote name='Il Chiarimento' post='1447357' date='Jul 19 2008, 18.06']And Batman? He clung to his one 'don't kill' code but that's about it. He compromised everything else to bring down the joker. Became a near fascist with his city-wide surveillance program that the Bush Admin. would cream themselves over. Treated the people to a pleasing lie at the end because he deemed they were too weak and immature to handle the truth. Who is he to make these decisions for us? Why should he be trusted with this power over all others?[/quote]

It's worth pointing out that TDK's surveillance program is [i]much[/i] milder than the system Batman implemented circa Infinite Crisis. He, um, encircled the globe in satellites. He was then [i]shocked[/i] that his system, um, went rogue. And was, y'know, sentient. And went about trying to kill every post-human on the planet. Way to go, Bruce.

Although in fairness, he [i]had[/i] been mindwiped by the Justice League.

[WarGalley]

This movie is on pace to break Spiderman 3 so I think it's pretty clear that WB will do another movie. It's too much of a cash cow to give up in an era of sequels and movie franchises. Consequently I think WB would throw a lot of money at Nolan. Whether or not that can convince him is up for debate. There's going to be another Batman movie though.

[potsherds]

[quote name='WarGalley' post='1447424' date='Jul 20 2008, 05.43']This movie is on pace to break Spiderman 3 so I think it's pretty clear that WB will do another movie. It's too much of a cash cow to give up in an era of sequels and movie franchises. Consequently I think WB would throw a lot of money at Nolan. Whether or not that can convince him is up for debate. There's going to be another Batman movie though.[/quote]
Max is correct that the Nolan brothers and Co aren't already set on doing a 3rd, and Chris Nolan has very specifically said he has nothing in mind. That being said, it would be a [i]great[/i] disappointment if the studio goes ahead with a 3rd, which they almost assuredly will, and Nolan turns down the job offer. I can't imagine anyone else doing near so well with this franchise.



ETA: And the Ventriloquist is a good idea for another villain that I think could work. I'm not entirely sure how a psychopath with a wooden dummy on his arm would top the Joker, though. And are we talking the original concept, or Peyton Riley?

[BLU-RAY]

[quote name='potsherds' post='1447428' date='Jul 19 2008, 21.47']Max is correct that the Nolan brothers and Co aren't already set on doing a 3rd, and Chris Nolan has very specifically said he has nothing in mind. That being said, it would be a [i]great[/i] disappointment if the studio goes ahead with a 3rd, which they almost assuredly will, and Nolan turns down the job offer. I can't imagine anyone else doing near so well with this franchise.[/quote]

Yeah, I absolutely agree with this; I've heard that Nolan only signed for two films whereas Bale and some others (Caine?) signed for three, and I would hate to see them make a 3rd without Nolan directing it. But I am having a hard time figuring out where they would go from here.

Mr. Freeze is right out as a villain, because nobody wants to resurrect the specter of Schumacher's movie.

I also don't know that the Catwoman character fits in particularly well with the aesthetic that Nolan has created; considering that the first film dealt with an attempt to kill everyone in Gotham and the second deals with a man who murders to promote chaos, toning down to burglary might seem like a regression. Additionally, ditto the previous objection; nobody wants to call to mind the Halle Berry travesty.

Bane, The Ventriloquist, and Two-Face all seem more plausible. Two Face would be the best of these; the only problem would be explaining how a Two-Face escape from Arkham managed to leave the Joker still locked up.

Also wanted to comment on that scene where the Joker tells Batman that he thought the two of them were destined to do this forever; it was heartbreaking to think at that moment that Ledger would never again bring that character to screen.


ETA: Pots brings up another problem with other villains; who the hell is going to top Ledger's Joker? I can't think of anyone they could bring in to play any other villain that would feel like a worthy opponent after watching this film.

Oh, Ra's al Ghul again would be OK probably.

[Shryke]

Just saw this.

IN-FUCKING-CREDIBLE!

Ledger was brilliant. The first scene, with him in the kitchen, I was a bit "This is good" and "Holy fuck, the Pencil!!" (the whole audience gasped at that). But it just got better and better. The interrogation scene was .... unbelievable. Best scene in the movie. Ledger was firing on 12 cylinders running a v6 engine. I was sad when he failed at the end. I wanted to see MORE.

The music thing I never noticed.

The fights were WAY better then the first one. I was afraid of more fast-cutting!!!, but there really wasn't any. No where close to as bad as the last 2 Bourne movies or even BB. I really liked his fighting style actually. I was quick and brutal and realistic.

The biggest thing about the movie though, imo, is I felt AFRAID. It was tense. By the time he'd come back from China, there were no points in the movie that felt "safe". It always felt like you were 1 second from the Joker killing someone.

I totally didn't see Rachel's death coming. HUGE shocker. Gordan I was afraid was dead too.

[Shryke]

As for other villains, I think the Penguin is a bad idea. He's nothing ... interesting. Catwoman wouldn't work imo.

The Riddler might be good, if they go the Batman: The Animated Series route with him. (B:TAS btw, was the best batman around before these films). He's not a capering psyco (ie - Joker lite). He's calm, debaunair and in control. He's smarter then Batman and knows it and the only reason he's dropping clues for his own plans/amusement.

BTAS also did Mr. Freeze the best. If they were gonna use him, that's the way to go.

[Commodore]

I nitpick because this movie was great but could have been crafted better is all. When I watch something like the Wire or Deadwood or L.A. Confidential, where everything makes sense and the story is well put together, I notice when that doesn't happen. The story definitely could have used some editing and tightening, it seemed a little haphazard.

Still was a very good film.

[RedEyedGhost]

I'd be very disappointed if Nolan isn't involved in the next one. I'm afraid [i]anybody[/i] else would fuck it up.

Batman has such an array of characters, that done right I think any of them would be exciting.

There are complications with many of them though:

Mr. Freeze - ruined by the Arnold version
Catwoman - ruined by the Halle Berry movie (but did anybody watch it this? Not many based on box office/dvd sales), and I would have preferred some Selina Kyle setup in either BB or tDK
Clayface - too similar to Sandman in Spider-man 3? and to sci-fi not enough psychological
Man-Bat - also too sci-fi and not enough psychological
The Riddler - inferior, clownish ;) version of the Joker

I think my choice would be Poison Ivy - they could spin the whole environmentalist versus big Wayne corp. I've always been a fan of Poison Ivy though, and I would love to see a more realistic take on the character.

I think Catwoman could be done well, and there's lots of psychological components they can work with there.

[Caligula_K]

You know, if Nolan doesn't want to do a third one, then I see no reason to make another one. Of course, WB will no matter what, but in the end, I don't think anything will be able to top this one. It even ends on a somewhat conclusive note: There is hope for Gotham thanks to Dent's supposed martyrdom, and Batman sacrifices himself for it, and in this sense inspires people to do good. If Nolan wants another shot, then he should go for it, especially since Bale is signed on- otherwise, lets not have an X Men 3 situation.

[RedEyedGhost]

Oh and I fully expect Two-Face to be in the next movie. Harvey Dent died, but Two-Face lives. Commissioner Gordon couldn't have let that twisted version of their "savior of Gotham" back into the public eye.

[VigoTheCarpathian]

[quote name='Brahm_K' post='1447453' date='Jul 19 2008, 22.43']You know, if Nolan doesn't want to do a third one, then I see no reason to make another one. Of course, WB will no matter what, but in the end, I don't think anything will be able to top this one. It even ends on a somewhat conclusive note: There is hope for Gotham thanks to Dent's supposed martyrdom, and Batman sacrifices himself for it, and in this sense inspires people to do good. If Nolan wants another shot, then he should go for it, especially since Bale is signed on- otherwise, [b]lets not have an X Men 3 situation.[/b][/quote]

Fully agreed. If Nolan passes, I wouldn't be suprised if they brought back Schumacher, considering how studios seem to treat franchises. I think I would like to see a Coen Bros treatment of Batman (that's my fanboy speaking).

I think Poison Ivy or Two-Face could work. Bane would be a stretch, but it'd be good for some one-on-one fight sequences. With the "realism" inject into the movies, as opposed to the camp of past ones, it seems like you need to have something semi-plausible to keep continuity and believability from the "first" two (btw, whoever said they didn't go into character development upthread needs to re-evaluate their lives and their knowledge base. The first movie gave you enough of that). That being said, if Nolan is out, I'm sure the studio will throw 8 different villains from the basement of the series onto the screen, just to sell action figures.

(By the way, this was the only movie for 2008 that I held out any hope for, and it delivered on the hype)

[FedererFan]

Great movie. Ledger's performance lived up to the hype. It was very intense so I'll have to see it again because I missed so much.

My only real complaint about the movie is that the Joker wasn't given enough screentime. Eckhart did a good job as Dent, but the Joker was the far more interesting character.

On a more minor note the CGI on Two-Face looked ridiculous. Just conventional make-up would have been fine.

[sckma]

Haha, well I was hoping that while the Joker was in Arkham, he would meet Harline Quinzell, and slowly unfold her with sob stories, and bring her unto his side .... That would've been awesome to watch... Shame that that won't be happening.

IF there is a next movie, I would want Two-Face as the main bad guy... I always felt that the Joker and Two-face were the best characters batman faced (but I liked Ra's and Scarecrow as well). After this film, it will be ridiculously difficult to up this, and the only way to maybe match, or fall just under this movie/performance is to focus on the good and bad sides dueling each other in Two-Face/Dent. I don't think there was enough of that initially.