The Dark Knight part deux

[Guest Raidne]

[quote name='Commodore' post='1445661' date='Jul 18 2008, 08.53']...and Batman's voice where he constantly talks like he needs a cough drop and has a stick up his ass.[/quote]

Yes! I could use a different bat voice.

[quote name='Mexal' post='1446690' date='Jul 18 2008, 23.03']Second, he rescued Dent because the Joker fucked with him and gave him the opposite address. He knew that he'd go after Rachel so he said Rachel was really at Dent's address and vice versa.[/quote]

I just did not catch that either. Ah well, there were things in Begins I didn't catch until a reviewing either.

My one real criticism was Dent's character - he just didn't grab me at the beginning as this new possible savior of Gotham. I mean, he lost his case right? He lost his case when he had a sworn statement. If I was going to rest my hopes on a lawyer, I'd want a better one. I needed more charisma and more skill from Dent at the beginning to make his fall that much more dramatic. As long as the Joker was going to break out the guy from Hong Kong, why not have all the mob bosses convicted by Dent at the beginning and broken out too?

I'm open to the idea that there could be an answer to this and I'm just missing it.

I was [i]blown away[/i] by Ledger's Joker. Could have used a little more of him in the second half of the film. He was just amazing - couldn't take my eyes off of him whenever he was onscreen. Definitely one of the best villain performances ever.

[Week]

That movie was pretty much perfect.

Frankly, I'm pretty appalled at some of the nitpicking that some of you are doing, but frankly that just attests to the quality of the movie that only in nitpicking can you (potentially) find anything truly wrong with it.

Jack Nicholson's Joker looks like it was from a bedtime story you'd read to your 5-year old now in comparison to Ledger's Joker. Watching the Joker on screen was just unbelievable. The Joker was not Ledger in any way shape or form. It felt almost as if the Joker was real, simply a real person, acting like himself surrounded by actors (although many of the other characters were nearly equally perfectly acted IMO).

The Batman voice was fine. It has to be different from his regular voice or you get closer to the absurdity that is Clark Kent/Superman, and it is intended to be intimidating. It works.

[Tempra]

Bale is a good batman, and a horrible bruce wayne.

[PhoenixFlame]

[quote]Bale is a good batman, and a horrible bruce wayne.[/quote]

Really? I thought he did a great job. I loved it when he crashed the Lamby and was like "I was just trying to catch the light."

My friends and I watched [url="http://www.cracked.com/video_16489_it-time-batman-tone-it-down.html"]this video[/url] right before going, so we were constantly whispering "feeeear meeee!" and "they're haunted!" throughout the film.

[Mexal]

[quote name='PhoenixFlame' post='1446880' date='Jul 19 2008, 10.36']Really? I thought he did a great job. I loved it when he crashed the Lamby and was like "I was just trying to catch the light."[/quote]

Same. I have absolutely zero problems with the way Bale plays either character.

[smegma]

I wonder if Dent is still alive, I think reading ASOIAF has helped me look for hints and loopholes in everything I read/see and I saw a couple of "hints" but not "commitments" about him being alive -

They never actually say he is dead, they only "pay tribute" to him (I don't think, I will need to confirm on a second viewing)
They set up earlier in the movie when the mob boss doesn't die from the three story fall, and it was about that height maybe for Dent's fall? Again will need to confirm
The coin falls with the favorable side up as he is falling, meaning it was "his lucky day".
So he very well could be alive, or could be dead...I guess we'll find out!

I'm going to go see it again tomorrow I think, the more I stew on the film the more taken over by how fantastic it is.

[Caligula_K]

It looked like Dent was pretty dead- he wasn't breathing all throughout the final scene. I guess its possible, though, since this is a superhero movie and all.

And I also have no problem with either Bale as Bruce Wayne (imo, Bruce Wayne as he should be played- cocky, arrogant, and dim- its pretty hard to suspect that the man who just wanted to catch a light is Batman) or as Batman, though I think that in the last scene his normal voice might have been more effective.

[Intercept]

[quote name='Tempra' post='1446878' date='Jul 19 2008, 10.25']Bale is a good batman, and a horrible bruce wayne.[/quote]

It's the reverse. He's a decent Bruce Wayne, and just a fucking awful Batman.

It's Batman voice is okay when he's speaking low, which he should. Batman shouldn't ever need to yell to put fear into criminals. But he yells every chance he gets and it's awful.

Plus, Christian Bale can't fight worth a shit, and whoever choreographs the fights for the Batman series is a moron. Worst. Fight. Scenes. Ever.

[Week]

[quote name='Intercept' post='1446960' date='Jul 19 2008, 11.46']Plus, Christian Bale can't fight worth a shit, and whoever choreographs the fights for the Batman series is a moron. Worst. Fight. Scenes. Ever.[/quote]
Uh, I don't think so. The hyperbole is as wrong as it is obnoxious. So what if the fights aren't choreographed like Crouching Tiger, or whatever you deem to be the best? The movie is so much more than the fight scenes and to dwell on them as if it is really significant is dumb in my opinion.

[Mexal]

[quote name='Intercept' post='1446960' date='Jul 19 2008, 11.46']It's the reverse. He's a decent Bruce Wayne, and just a fucking awful Batman.

It's Batman voice is okay when he's speaking low, which he should. Batman shouldn't ever need to yell to put fear into criminals. But he yells every chance he gets and it's awful.

Plus, Christian Bale can't fight worth a shit, and whoever choreographs the fights for the Batman series is a moron. Worst. Fight. Scenes. Ever.[/quote]

You just don't like the fight style. You want something more flashy. The problem is, Keysi isn't about being flashy. It's practical, with the use of the elbows in a very compact position. It's a self defense technique where he keeps his body tight together to protect the crucial parts of his body while attacking the crucial parts of his attacker. It's for very close quarters combat which every fight scene was. He's not a kung fu master or anything and he shouldn't be. I liked it and agree with their choice of style.

Also, the whole Batman voice is a modifier. It's not his voice. He talks, the computer people fix it and then they put in the movie. If you want to blame anyone, blame Nolan and his crew.

Whatever, I'm tired of reading your posts. Between this thread and Hellboy thread, we obviously look for different things in the movies and decide a movie's strength based on a very very different criteria. No point in discussing this.

[Mexal]

[quote name='Weekapaug' post='1446989' date='Jul 19 2008, 12.08']Uh, I don't think so. The hyperbole is as wrong as it is obnoxious. So what if the fights aren't choreographed like Crouching Tiger, or whatever you deem to be the best? The movie is so much more than the fight scenes and to dwell on them as if it is really significant is dumb in my opinion.[/quote]

Not to mention that he has absolutely zero understanding of the Keysi Fighting Method which is the style they used for the fights.

[Jaxom 1974]

[quote]First, I think they left it open cause they were going to bring him back in the next movie.

Second, he rescued Dent because the Joker fucked with him and gave him the opposite address. He knew that he'd go after Rachel so he said Rachel was really at Dent's address and vice versa.

And I think if they flipped the switch on the detonator, it would have blown them up since that's something the Joker would have done.[/quote]

Kinda like Scarecrow? If only briefly? Was that Cirrian Hinds anyway? Couldn't tell.

Unlike many other aspects of Nolan films, the fact that Joker gave Batman the wrong address for Rachel was more obvious to me than other things he's done. That being said, I really thought he sold it well in the build up. You knew from the previews, especially with the fuel he's laying in, that that was pretty much how Two Face was going to be created, but you really though it would be from the explosion of Dent not getting rescued in time while Batman was saving Rachel.

The ferry detonators: My dad leaned over and whispered to me, "Blow themselves up if they pull it?" and it had me going. I honestly thought one, or both, of the ferrys were going to go up.

[quote]My one real criticism was Dent's character - he just didn't grab me at the beginning as this new possible savior of Gotham.[/quote]

See, my issue wasn't so much the Dent character, it was the actor. Aaron Eckhart does nothing for me and I really had to focus myself when he was on the screen. Now, mind you, it was easier to accept him as Dent than it was Tommy Lee Jones, but at the same time, I would have liked to have seen another actor play the role. That's just me though.

This was a brilliant movie on virtually every other level. The bar is raised again.

The Watchmen trailer? I'm not sure what it did for me yet.

[Intercept]

[quote name='Weekapaug' post='1446989' date='Jul 19 2008, 12.08']Uh, I don't think so. The hyperbole is as wrong as it is obnoxious. So what if the fights aren't choreographed like Crouching Tiger, or whatever you deem to be the best? The movie is so much more than the fight scenes and to dwell on them as if it is really significant is dumb in my opinion.[/quote]

No, it's really because the fight scenes are really sloppy and shitty. And stop making assumptions about my personal taste in fighting scenes because I called them out for being shitty.

[quote name='"Mexal"']You just don't like the fight style. You want something more flashy. The problem is, Keysi isn't about being flashy. It's practical, with the use of the elbows in a very compact position. It's a self defense technique where he keeps his body tight together to protect the crucial parts of his body while attacking the crucial parts of his attacker. It's for very close quarters combat which every fight scene was. He's not a kung fu master or anything and he shouldn't be. I liked it and agree with their choice of style.

Also, the whole Batman voice is a modifier. It's not his voice. He talks, the computer people fix it and then they put in the movie. If you want to blame anyone, blame Nolan and his crew.

Whatever, I'm tired of reading your posts. Between this thread and Hellboy thread, we obviously look for different things in the movies and decide a movie's strength based on a very very different criteria. No point in discussing this.[/quote]

No, I don't want something flashy. And prepare to get destroyed for your smug comment on the so-called Keysi Fighting Method.

I've been doing martial arts since I was five. My dad thought it was a good way for me to deal with the stress of moving to a new country so it stuck with me for life. When I went off to college at 18, I stopped TKD and took up Muay Thai. Last year I've been mixing it up with some BJJ courses. I've taken self defense courses too, so I know what I'm talking about.

The execution of all the techniques is sloppy, not to mention for a series that prides itself on gritty realism, the thugs are monumentally stupid. In every single fight scene all the bad guys apparently find more use trying to bludgeon Batman with their pistols instead of actually trying to shoot them. There are many "Go" scenes, meaning you clearly see all the other guys standing around while Christian Bale takes three seconds to finish off one guy, and then the other guy decides to run up and try to hit him instead of simply shooting him. The first one at least put forth some effort into it, with Batman knocking out the lights and trying to scare the shit ouf the villains he was fighting and using the darkness as cover, but even then he was slow and mechanical. Christian Bale is not much of an athlete and it shows. I'm not asking for a Bruce Lee, but I am asking for decent camerawork and atleast a Daniel Craig grasp of melee scenes. Also the camera is always tight and close -- this is usually the safest way to cover up a fight scene too difficult for an actor to do.

If it's really a voice modifier, then I guess I can't blame Christian Bale. Okay, it's a shitty voice modifier.

I think both of you need to separate movie opinions from personal attacks. If you think I'm wrong, write like you did in the beginning minus the enormous ignorance of thinking I expected some mystical kung fu flying technique, and address why you think my opinions are wrong. Don't wring your dick over and make it a vendetta just because I disagreed with you, because I've never attacked anyone personally for their opinions until they decided to take it personal.

[Mexal]

[quote name='Jaxom 1974' post='1447002' date='Jul 19 2008, 12.22']Kinda like Scarecrow? If only briefly? Was that Cirrian Hinds anyway? Couldn't tell.

See, my issue wasn't so much the Dent character, it was the actor. Aaron Eckhart does nothing for me and I really had to focus myself when he was on the screen. Now, mind you, it was easier to accept him as Dent than it was Tommy Lee Jones, but at the same time, I would have liked to have seen another actor play the role. That's just me though.[/quote]

It was Cillian Murphy. I think if Ledger was still alive, the Joker would have come back in a more prominent role, if only because of the brilliance of it.

I love Eckhart. Ever since seeing Thank You For Smoking, he's been one of those actors that I enjoy watching. I think he was perfect for Dent :)

[Jaxom 1974]

[quote name='Mexal' post='1447016' date='Jul 19 2008, 11.44']It was Cillian Murphy. I think if Ledger was still alive, the Joker would have come back in a more prominent role, if only because of the brilliance of it.

I love Eckhart. Ever since seeing Thank You For Smoking, he's been one of those actors that I enjoy watching. I think he was perfect for Dent :)[/quote]


Murphy...Hinds...you knew who I meant. It was him then? Okay. Nothing like a cameo to help foster the continuity and give the sense that there are more "freaks" coming out.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

[quote name='Brahm_K' post='1446946' date='Jul 19 2008, 11.35'][b]It looked like Dent was pretty dead- he wasn't breathing all throughout the final scene. I guess its possible, though, since this is a superhero movie and all.[/b]

And I also have no problem with either Bale as Bruce Wayne (imo, Bruce Wayne as he should be played- cocky, arrogant, and dim- its pretty hard to suspect that the man who just wanted to catch a light is Batman) or as Batman, though I think that in the last scene his normal voice might have been more effective.[/quote]Comic Book Fix: Harvey Dent is dead, but Two-Face lives in Arkham Asylum.

[Intercept]

Batman took the fall for the cop murders. Dent was given a fake funeral and martyred to give the people of Gotham City faith.

Two-Face was sent to Arkham. It isn't an Asylum anymore. If you watch Gotham Knight, you find out that between the first and the second movie, the entire Narrows have been caged off and quarantined. The whole island is a prison. The police just watch the gates and the prisoners govern themselves.

[Anatole Kuragin]

[quote name='Matrim Fox Cauthon' post='1447026' date='Jul 19 2008, 11.54']Comic Book Fix: Harvey Dent is dead, but Two-Face lives in Arkham Asylum.[/quote]

Yeah, I hope he and Sansa eventually meet up.

As for Dent being alive, I doubt the filmmakers knew about/took this into account, but Dent's eyes would most likely be open if he died from falling the way he did. If he were unconscious they'd be closed like they were in the film.

[Guy Kilmore]

[quote name='Jaxom 1974' post='1447021' date='Jul 19 2008, 11.49']Murphy...Hinds...you knew who I meant. It was him then? Okay. Nothing like a cameo to help foster the continuity and give the sense that there are more "freaks" coming out.[/quote]
That is kind of cool to know, I thought it was him, but it was so quick with his mask off, I couldn't tell for sure. It saves me a google search :P

[BLU-RAY]

Fantastic movie, maybe the best villain I've ever seen. On a level with Hannibal Lecter; possibly even better. I was blown away.

I wasn't a huge fan of the fight scenes, but I don't really think they were even top-5 for worst examples of the zoomed-in, fast-cut confusing camera thing (see: Bourne movies, Batman Begins). I felt like this one was better in that regard than its predecessor.

Unrelentingly dark, as well as being scary. This isn't a movie for kids at all; it'll be interesting to see how that turns out (in terms of parents taking their kids to it blindly).

I'm extremely curious about a 3rd movie now as well.