The Dark Knight part deux

[Jaxom 1974]

[quote name='Commodore' post='1447895' date='Jul 20 2008, 16.16']You liked this? Talk about a complete copout. "This is terrible, but we'll use it this once because we need it." Not exactly a principled position.

This was also another part that stetched the limits of belief. "Let's invent something that allows Batman to hear anyone at any time". That's what we call a forced plot device, and pretty ham handed one at that.

Next Fox will come up with something that allows Batman to instantly teleport to any location.[/quote]

I can see your point, but at the same time, it also falls into some of the thematic lines of the movie. This system of Batman's could have been a tool of ultimate control for him to use, yet by allowing Fox to control it, to destroy it, he acknoweldges chaos has to have it's place as well.

[quote]Because the inclusion of superman would be completely counter to the entire feel and premise of the 2 previous movies?[/quote]

Totally think this depends on the feel of the actual story, the way Superman would be used and who was writing and directing. Personally, I've always thought one of the best Batman/Superman tales was from John Byrne's Man of Steel re-boot in 1986. Issue #3 I believe it is. In this version of the two heroes first meeting, there isn't a grand fight or anything like that, but the layout of the philosophies of the two, and how Superman dicovers that there are other methods that can and do work that differ from his own...

That being said, I don't know that Superman, despite the iconic nature of the two's relationship, would be the way to go. The idea that another hero has to step in because Batman is now officially an "outlaw" isn't a bad one. But Green Arrow might be better suited to it.

Catwoman or Riddler, other than Two-Face, are the next villians that need to be seen. Why? They aren't super-powered. To me, that's pretty important in this world Nolan's created.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote]Totally think this depends on the feel of the actual story, the way Superman would be used and who was writing and directing.[/quote]


Gonna have to agree completely with Shryke here. This rebooted Batman franchise has been shooting for realism in nearly every aspect of the story. No mysticism or unexplained powers, its all tech. Functional, plausible bat vehicles. (well, maybe the bike as a bit out there this time around) Villains whose arsenal consists of aerosol super-shrooms and knives. Superpowered Space aliens form Krypton just ain't gonna fit.

Plus Superman is an inherently dull character. Only so much you can do with the 110% invincible boyscout who has but one weakness. (keep rehashing that weakness)

[Jaxom 1974]

[quote name='Il Chiarimento' post='1447914' date='Jul 20 2008, 16.59']Plus Superman is an inherently dull character. Only so much you can do with the 110% invincible boyscout who has but one weakness. (keep rehashing that weakness)[/quote]

In well done stories of Batman and Superman's early meetings, the simple fact that Superman cannot seem to grap or fathom Batman's motivations, especially since his methods are so contradictory to his essential nature that's another weakness. But I digress...

As I said before, I like the idea of possibly using another hero as a foil in another movie, but I also agree that it needs to be a non-superpowered hero, a la Green Arrow.

Also, who wants to speculate that Robin needs to make an appearance...?

[Relic]

[quote name='Jaxom 1974' post='1447926' date='Jul 20 2008, 18.12']Also, who wants to speculate that Robin needs to make an appearance...?[/quote]


no no no and no

The sonar/phone thing...i felt it was corny but just ignored it. the movie did enough right to forgive it a few minor misteps.

The Dark Knight returns...Directed by Chris Nolan, screenplay by Brother Nolan and Frank Miller....

[Slurktan]

[quote name='Il Chiarimento' post='1447914' date='Jul 20 2008, 17.59']Gonna have to agree completely with Shryke here. This rebooted Batman franchise has been shooting for realism in nearly every aspect of the story. No mysticism or unexplained powers, its all tech. Functional, plausible bat vehicles. (well, maybe the bike as a bit out there this time around) Villains whose arsenal consists of aerosol super-shrooms and knives. Superpowered Space aliens form Krypton just ain't gonna fit.

Plus Superman is an inherently dull character. Only so much you can do with the 110% invincible boyscout who has but one weakness. (keep rehashing that weakness)[/quote]

You and Shryke are probably right in the sense it would be somewhat of a change in that Superman is well super. However to claim there is nothing particularly unbelievable in these Batman movies is naive to say the least. Look at Harvey/Two Face. He has had half of his face completely burned off and yet within a day or two he is up running around with zero painkillers and not screaming incoherently constantly. To me thats just as unbelievable as a guy who can shoot heat rays out of his eyes. But hey to each their own.

I would see it as a way to combine the two in a movie before the Justice League movie gets released so you can have some connecting lines and not having to introduce everything at once. Superman can be done poorly and has been done very badly a great many times. I just think if he is for the most part left out of the movie as a character and is more of a force that it would be interesting. Giving the Batman character a taste of the other side; having sort of say a regular mob henchmans view of Batman. Completely unstoppable when confronted but yet not infalliable and able to be avoided if planned. It would be a movie that focuses on Batmans intelligence as opposed to his physical capabilities.

[delete this account pls]

Slurk's idea isn't a bad one, though I'd replace Superman with one of Batman's rogue's, re-imagined as some sort of extreme bounty hunter.

[Relic]

putting super man into the series at this point would be beyond idiotic imho

[Lord of Oop North]

[quote name='Bradyskele' post='1447947' date='Jul 20 2008, 18.30']Slurk's idea isn't a bad one, though I'd replace Superman with one of Batman's rogue's, re-imagined as some sort of extreme bounty hunter.[/quote]
I like the idea of Batman being the villian. That would be a great way to take the next film, in my opinion. But I don't want to see Superman. No way. I like the idea of some sort of Bounty Hunter, ala The Punisher. I can't think of a DC-character that would fit, but maybe someone related to one of Batman's 'victims'. Make him a representative of the Joker's philosophy, of small people trying to control the world.


P.S. I hereby motion that any haters of the Dark Knight should be perma-banned.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

[quote name='Relic' post='1447949' date='Jul 20 2008, 18.32']putting super man into the series at this point would be beyond idiotic imho[/quote]It is known.

[Lord O' Bones]

[quote name='RedEyedGhost' post='1447457' date='Jul 19 2008, 22.50']Oh and I fully expect Two-Face to be in the next movie. Harvey Dent died, but Two-Face lives. Commissioner Gordon couldn't have let that twisted version of their "savior of Gotham" back into the public eye.[/quote]
So you're telling us that some guy with half his face burned off, and is assumed to be dead (we're even told he's dead by an authority figure!) isn't actually dead, only figuratively? And he's being hidden away somewhere?

Nobody on [i]this[/i] board is gonna buy it.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

[quote name='Lord O' Bones' post='1447965' date='Jul 20 2008, 18.51']So you're telling us that some guy with half his face burned off, and is assumed to be dead (we're even told he's dead by an authority figure!) isn't actually dead, only figuratively? And he's being hidden away somewhere?

Nobody on [i]this[/i] board is gonna buy it.[/quote]
You don't read comic books do you?

[BLU-RAY]

Hmmm. I'd be against Superman, I just don't feel like it would be a workable setup, and I think it would make the tone and the feel of the film a radical departure from the first two.

I think it's going to have to be Two-Face, tbh. I'd love to have a good portrayal of Mr. Freeze, but seriously, they're even replaying Batman and Robin on TV [i]now[/i]. The more people are reminded of that film, the worse their reaction is going to be.



[quote name='Matrim Fox Cauthon' post='1447966' date='Jul 20 2008, 15.54']You don't read comic books do you?[/quote]


(AFFC SPOILER)










He's referencing Sandor, isn't he?









/SPOILER

[Lord of Oop North]

[quote name='potsherds' post='1447338' date='Jul 19 2008, 20.29']Huh. You mean you see how Nolan could spin them properly into a serious instead of campy movie?[/quote]
I could definitely see The Riddler as a good follow up. For one, he is batshit crazy. That is always a plus. He doesn't have any super powers that would make him unrealistic. His obsession with riddles fits well with the whole crime drama angle that Nolan is pushing. The Penguin is lame, and I totally agree with Brahm_k. I have never understood why he is considered one of the best in Batman's Rogues Gallery.

I think bringing back Eckhart as Two-Face is required, though. There is some great history to build upon there.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

[quote name='DVD ROTS' post='1447973' date='Jul 20 2008, 19.00'](AFFC SPOILER)










He's referencing Sandor, isn't he?









/SPOILER[/quote]Boy, am I slow.

[WarGalley]

Anyone see the rumor that the schizo guy Dent kidnaps in the ambulance after the Gordon death was Jarvis Tetch/Mad Hatter? It's probably a bogus rumor (or a name that sounded similar) but I'll definitely be paying attention to that scene when I see it again.

[Rhom]

I had read somewhere that Nolan was envisioning the Penguin as an international arms dealer and had wanted Phillip Seymour Hoffman to play the character. In that context, I think he could work. (But Hoffman wasn't interested anyways.)

In general, I think Riddler is the next obvious step. The problem as I see it really does boil down to "How do we top this?"

[Lord O' Bones]

[quote name='rhombencephalon' post='1447992' date='Jul 20 2008, 16.33']In general, I think Riddler is the next obvious step. The problem as I see it really does boil down to "How do we top this?"[/quote]
Cast Daniel Day Lewis as the Riddler?

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote]You and Shryke are probably right in the sense it would be somewhat of a change in that Superman is well super. However to claim there is nothing particularly unbelievable in these Batman movies is naive to say the least. Look at Harvey/Two Face. He has had half of his face completely burned off and yet within a day or two he is up running around with zero painkillers and not screaming incoherently constantly. To me thats just as unbelievable as a guy who can shoot heat rays out of his eyes. But hey to each their own.[/quote]

I don't think anyone's saying its completely realistic. But its certainly on a higher plain of realism than nearly any other comic book film out there and it aspires at most times to be more realistic yet. Take Spiderman for example. If you accept the pseudo-scientific premises of where he and some villains got their powers, you've still got a video game feel to the action and superpowered and non-superpowered (doc oc) characters alike taking the punishment equivalent of having the empire state building fall on them and still getting up for seconds. Iron Man had mile high falls in makeshift metal suits that resulted in no scratches. There are hints of that in Batman, but to nowhere near the extent of other comic or superhero films. The comparative camp and corniness is minimal.

Besides that, I don't see how it serves the Batman character or story to tell us that he exists in a larger superhero filled world. But I can see how they can screw up such a universe expansion rather easily.

[Commodore]

I heard a rumor that Anthony Michael Hall was gonna be Riddler, but obviously that isn't true since he was the reporter.

BTW I loved William Fitchner's small part for some reason, he was a badass with that shotgun.

[WarGalley]

[quote name='rhombencephalon' post='1447992' date='Jul 20 2008, 19.33']I had read somewhere that Nolan was envisioning the Penguin as an international arms dealer and had wanted Phillip Seymour Hoffman to play the character. In that context, I think he could work. (But Hoffman wasn't interested anyways.)

In general, I think Riddler is the next obvious step. The problem as I see it really does boil down to "How do we top this?"[/quote]

Yeah I can see the Penguin too, more as a refined aristocratic crime boss.. not the leader of actual penguins strapped with missile launchers ala DeVito. My vision of a Nolan-version Penguin would probably fit more in a James Bond movie though.

I completely agree with the Riddler comment.