Anyone who didn't like The Dark Knight is a tool.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='BJ Penn' post='1465643' date='Aug 1 2008, 15.48']The reasons that are being given about why the film is mediocre are mediocre in and of themselves, IMO.

But whatever. Makes no difference to me if someone disliked it or thought the Joker could've easily been killed. I've watched it at least five times (though only once in the theater) and still think it's a brilliant movie that deserves every single superlative used to describe it.[/quote]

I think there's a backlash against excessive superlatives.

I thought it was damn good myself, quite possibly the best of all Superhero movies (although I think Batman Begins still gives it a run for its money)..but that was conveniently ignored. My issue in this thread, is the foaming at the mouth rabidness about the film having no flaws just seems a little overblown.

You can't tell me the ending was anywhere close to as good as the beginning. And I did feel a loss in momentum in the second half. Lot of great films have had that, Fight Club included, and it's completely understandable for a 2 1/2 hour long film, but it is what it is.

[Shryke]

Really?

BB was good, but not near as good as this one. BB's is the film that really drags at the end. TDK was one of those films where I could have sat for another 2.5 hours if necessary. I was enthralled. I didn't want it to end.

[Relic]

[quote name='Jaime L' post='1465665' date='Aug 1 2008, 15.58']I think there's a backlash against excessive superlatives.

I thought it was damn good myself, quite possibly the best of all Superhero movies (although I think Batman Begins still gives it a run for its money)..but that was conveniently ignored. My issue in this thread, is the foaming at the mouth rabidness about the film having no flaws just seems a little overblown.

You can't tell me the ending was anywhere close to as good as the beginning. And I did feel a loss in momentum in the second half. Lot of great films have had that, Fight Club included, and it's completely understandable for a 2 1/2 hour long film, but it is what it is.[/quote]


i wanted it to end but when it did i was dissapointed it was over.

certainly not the greatest movie ever but Heath was amazing (unfucking belieavable actually) and this is and probably will remain the best batman movie one could possibly make. Yeah the suit sucked, the fight scenes were underwhelming the dues ex machina cell radar unnecessary but .... im a Batman fan boi and i almost creamed my pants during certain scenes.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='Shryke' post='1465684' date='Aug 1 2008, 16.13']Really?

BB was good, but not near as good as this one. BB's is the film that really drags at the end. TDK was one of those films where I could have sat for another 2.5 hours if necessary. I was enthralled. I didn't want it to end.[/quote]

I know I'm in the minority on this. Didn't notice BB dragging ever...personal preference thing I guess. I'd agree TDK is the deeper more ambitious project. BB just spoke to me more; came out of it feeling like how I want to feel after watching an escapist superhero flick. Think I'd have to watch each again to solidify which one wins out going forward.

[Analu]

[quote name='Jaime L' post='1465665' date='Aug 1 2008, 09.58']You can't tell me the ending was anywhere close to as good as the beginning. And I did feel a loss in momentum in the second half. Lot of great films have had that, Fight Club included, and it's completely understandable for a 2 1/2 hour long film, but it is what it is.[/quote]
I [i]can[/i] tell you and [i]am[/i] telling you that, Jaime. The Joker ending was perfect, IMO.

Stolen from IMDB:
[b]Batman[/b]: What did you do?
[b]The Joker[/b]: I took Gotham's white knight, and brought him down to our level. It wasn't hard. Y'see, madness, as you know, is like gravity. All it takes is a little...push.

*Cue maniacal laughter as he's swinging along by his leg* Pure awesome.


And I thought the complete opposite about the "loss in momentum in the second half". On the contrary, the momentum got ratcheted up a notch, IMO. The truck vs Batpod, interrogation, hospital scenes were all top-shelf and kept me glued to my seat. The Dent ending was a little rushed, but I loved Gordon's monologue with Batman's cape whipping like crazy as he rides his Batpod... then fade to black. *fanboy gurgles



[quote]I remember hearing that that happened in one of the comics once, and the toxin didn't do anything to the Joker because he feared nothing... or something like that.[/quote]
I guess that makes sense. Still, it would've been fun to see what great actors like Heath and "28 Days Later" dude could've done with that scene.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='BJ Penn' post='1465710' date='Aug 1 2008, 16.33']*fanboy gurgles[/quote]

Hey, fair enough.

Can't recall the last film that made me gurgle.

[Crazydog7]

I'll just say it one more time "magic trick"-totally awesome.

[Fatuous]

I finally saw it. You all are nuts or else I saw the wrong movie. It was better than Batman Begins but what isn't?

Whenever the "Joker" was on screen, I felt like licking my lips, whenever "Batman" started talking, I had a sudden urge to cough, whenever the sorry excuse of a plot when forward, I felt like sticking a pencil in my eye {Hey!}.

And will somebody tell Nolan that you have to shoot a fight scene from more than the waist up, that loud explosions, music and gunfire do not make for tension and you do not cover your A dialogue with it?

I liked Dent/Two Face but I missed the point in the movie where Dent got his two tone suit. The implication was that it was the suit he was wearing when he was set on fire and the "Joker" actually let him get dressed after holding a gun to his head. I'll buy that.

2.5/5
I didn't really like it or hate it. The "Joker" was just some scarred maniacal thug wearing clown white? I don't get the interest. Nobody thought that Gordon was wearing kevlar even though "Batman" wears tons of it? Ok. That a gang of hardened criminals have hearts of gold? Yeah, yeah.

[Humble Asskicker]

[quote]Dear fucking god. Was there actually just 3 pages of that? Not touching the Dent shit. (though he's as alive or dead as the next films writers/directors/producers want him to be. They left more than enough wiggle room)[/quote]

No kidding. How is it even possible to overlook the most obvious answer: While writing the script, Dent was killed off because that is the best complement to the tone of the film; however, the consideration that he might be needed or work even better for another film didn't escape any of the writers, and so they were vague enough that he could be revived as needed.

[quote]My issue in this thread, is the foaming at the mouth rabidness about the film having no flaws just seems a little overblown.[/quote]

There is no flaw! Acknowledge it!

[quote]I liked Dent/Two Face but I missed the point in the movie where Dent got his two tone suit. The implication was that it was the suit he was wearing when he was set on fire and the "Joker" actually let him get dressed after holding a gun to his head. I'll buy that.[/quote]

My theory is that before the killings he went to a tailor shop and requested a suit of the likeness he wore, and then patiently singed it to his satisfaction before carrying on with his mission. This is perhaps apocryphal, unrealistic and wrong. And it doesn't matter because it's such a trivial, unimportant detail that the film didn't bother to break its magnificent flow to address it.


[quote]I didn't really like it or hate it. The "Joker" was just some scarred maniacal thug wearing clown white? I don't get the interest.[/quote]

The interest comes from one of his characteristics that you elected to omit: he's also a total badass villain upon whom no superlative could do justice.

[quote]That a gang of hardened criminals have hearts of gold? Yeah, yeah.[/quote]

The hell? Are we equating ruthless assholes out for money and terror as a criminal with a heart of gold. Now that is cynicism.

[Anatole Kuragin]

Saw it in IMAX yesterday. During the movie I heard at least 10 pairs of balls dropping.

[The Pita]

I watched it today.
I laughed histerically during the magic trick. People actually started getting pissed off at me, and my friend had to shut me up. But after that, I just giggled through every Joker and Twoface scene.
I absolutely loved this movie. I haven't had this much fun watching a movie in a long time.

[awesome possum]

[quote name='Tobin' post='1465601' date='Aug 1 2008, 11.05']I also have to confess my shame, it took me three times to finally recognize it:

After the Joker leaves Dent's hospital room, he uses the hand sanitizer in the hall.
People in the audience would giggle about it - but I knew it had to be something symbolic, not just something cute/random.

The Joker was done with Dent: finished with pushing him over the edge into madness, finished dismantling his honor code, finished setting him up for his rampage.
The Joker was finished and [i]washed his hands[/i] of Dent.[/quote]

My first thought was that it was just some extra character thrown into the Joker. He'd touched Dent, held his hand and such, and afterwards had to sanitize it because he doesn't like touching or being touched by others.

The above explanation fits as well.


Also, I revise my previous statement. Harvey Dent is, in fact, dead. Two Face, however, is very much alive.

[ants]

Just saw it for the second time. So so good.

A few things:

1. I agree about the Catwoman talk.
2. Interesting to see Scarecrow, will he have a bigger part in the next movie?
3. Second time around, I realised that was a glass shard in the Joker's hand when he's got the cop a hostage. Made me go 'wow' how the Joker making Batman go bat crazy (couldn't help myself) and shove him into the mirror was what gave him the weapon to get out. And he was sitting beneath that fracture when baiting the cop. Just wow.
4. I think Dent is dead.
5. I deliberately wanted to catch who the '5' people two-face killed were, and still don't know.
6. Why the hell did Ledger have to accidentally kill himself!
7. My impression with Dent and the car was he put the seatbelt on, and everyone else died Dianna style (or bullet!).
8. Oldman was fantastic. Espescially the last speech where he tells the public they got the hero they didn't deserve but needed, and he tells his son that Batman is the hero they deserved but wasn't who they needed. The irony that everyone is thinking Gordan was saying they didn't really deserve Dent, when really he was saying Dent was only a hero because Gotham needed a hero so Batman and he created one (at least at the end).
9. I think Batman husks up his voice so nobody can connect him to Wayne.
10. Anyone dishing this film is an idiot.

[quote name='Lord O' Bones' post='1460190' date='Jul 29 2008, 15.01']The funny thing is, while the guy riding shotgun in the van couldn't shut up, the driver wore a full faced mask and never said a word. I was thinking "Could they make it any more obvious that the driver is a Joker agent?" :dunce:[/quote]
Yeah, I thought it was pretty obvious he was a Joker agent as well. Oops.
This was despite one of the main things I remembered from the pre-views being the Joker saying "Commisssioner Gordan", yet the movie sucked me in so much I didn't ahve time to think of this.

[Mathis]

Saw it today. Thought it was good overall but definately went downhill a little after Dent loses his marbles.

It was great to see Cillian Murphy's character at the beginning (scarecrow?). Probably the best villain in any Batman film except for Ledger's Joker.

Ledger did a great job. When he died it was inevitable that everyone would cream over his performance but it really was very good. Very funny (laughed out loud at the disapearing pencil) and it was creepy as fuck the way he kept running his tongue over his lips. Doesn't deserve an Oscar nod though.

One thing I wasn't sure of, does the Joker know Batman's identity? I thought not but then remembered that he tricked Batman into saving Dent instead of Rachel. Why would he do this unless he knew of an emotional attatchment?

Didn't like all the allusions to and comparisons with terrorism. It seemed tacky and lame to me. The Joker is not a terrorist, he is a homicidal pyromaniac.

[Mexal]

[quote name='Mathis' post='1466601' date='Aug 2 2008, 20.50']One thing I wasn't sure of, does the Joker know Batman's identity? I thought not but then remembered that he tricked Batman into saving Dent instead of Rachel. Why would he do this unless he knew of an emotional attatchment?

Didn't like all the allusions to and comparisons with terrorism. It seemed tacky and lame to me. The Joker is not a terrorist, he is a homicidal pyromaniac.[/quote]

Batman dove out the window to save Rachel in his penthouse. That's enough for him to figure out that Batman would go after her.

The Joker might not have been a religious terrorist but he was most certainly a terrorist.

[Durckad]

[quote name='Mathis' post='1466601' date='Aug 2 2008, 19.50']One thing I wasn't sure of, does the Joker know Batman's identity? I thought not but then remembered that he tricked Batman into saving Dent instead of Rachel. Why would he do this unless he knew of an emotional attatchment?[/quote]
The scene at the party, where Batman abandons everyone else to save Rachel.

[Mathis]

[quote name='Dackad' post='1466604' date='Aug 3 2008, 01.55']The scene at the party, where Batman abandons everyone else to save Rachel.[/quote]

Nah that aint a good enough reason. Batman would jump out of the window to save anyone. He puts his life on the line everyday to save random strangers. The Joker must know that.


[quote name='Mexal' post='1466603' date='Aug 3 2008, 01.55']The Joker might not have been a religious terrorist but he was most certainly a terrorist.[/quote]

A terrorist uses violence to achieve his/her goals. Joker didn't have any goals, he just wanted to create mahem. Thats the work of a psycho/anarchist. The terrorism nonsense got tacked on to make the film appear deeper IMO. Didn't work.

[Ashamanic]

[quote name='Mathis' post='1466610' date='Aug 2 2008, 21.15']A terrorist uses violence to achieve his/her goals. Joker didn't have any goals, he just wanted to create mahem. Thats the work of a psycho/anarchist. The terrorism nonsense got tacked on to make the film appear deeper IMO. Didn't work.[/quote]
But did the police realise that?

[Ouroboros]

A terrorist uses terror to achieve his or her goals, and the Joker did have a goal, to take over Gotham City and turn it into his own little fun land.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote]Nah that aint a good enough reason. Batman would jump out of the window to save anyone. He puts his life on the line everyday to save random strangers. The Joker must know that.[/quote]

He didn't only jump out a window to save her. He also abandoned an entire dinner party of helpless guests to save her. The Joker was paying attention. He even says that he actually thought Batman was Dent at first due to his reaction to Rachael. Hell, even before the Joker tossed her out the window Batman was behaving rather more angry and possessive than he might have if it were just a random hostage. If that wasn't good enough for you, not much I can do about it. But I suspect 99% of the rest of the film goers thought it was a good enough reason.


[quote]A terrorist uses violence to achieve his/her goals. Joker didn't have any goals, he just wanted to create mahem. Thats the work of a psycho/anarchist. The terrorism nonsense got tacked on to make the film appear deeper IMO. Didn't work.[/quote]

3+ threads of gushing, part of that praising the film's realism and exploration of various philosophical themes, suggests that it did work. Not deep enough for ya? Try 10 times deeper than any other superhero film ever made and twice as deep as nearly any other action film I can think of. Did you walk into the theater trying to be disappointed? Cause I can't really grasp this reaction. This film delivered on nearly every level possible and on the few it didn't, the other parts were good enough to allow you to easily ignore and forget.