The NFL Thread

[Jaime L]

[quote name='Jaxom 1974' post='1743344' date='Apr 3 2009, 07.58']And hey! Jaime! If the Redskins really had Campbell on the table and the Broncos took Kyle Orton over him, what's that say about ye ole neckbeard now? Heh. ;)[/quote]

Excellent point, Topanga.

Course McD also liked Cassel more than Cutler so I'm gonna have to go ahead and question his taste on multiple fronts. :P

[Maithanet]

[quote name='Jaime L' post='1742827' date='Apr 2 2009, 19.28']I've read Campbell's quotes after the Cutler madness ended. Class Act to the Nth degree. I'm F'ing proud of the pony we got. And strangely, I'm now psyched more than ever that I'll get to watch him suit up in the Burgandy and Gold for at least one more season.[/quote]

I agree. Having a quarterback who understands that it's all business and not acting like trade talks are the same as pissing on your mother is really great. I think the Redskins absolutely made the right call keeping Campbell. I'm not even sure it would have been worth it (for us) even if the price had been much lower (QB, 1st, 2rd round pick, for example). I don't think Cutler would have fit here.

But congrats Bears. He may fit there. Time will tell, and lord knows you boys needed a quarterback.

[Trebla]

[quote name='Jaxom 1974' post='1743344' date='Apr 3 2009, 06.58']Don't know about all the radio/television outlets, but Cutler is supposed to appear on the Boers and Bernstein show today at 3pm...we'll see what he has to say then, if not sooner.

And hey! Jaime! If the Redskins really had Campbell on the table and the Broncos took Kyle Orton over him, what's that say about ye ole neckbeard now? Heh. ;)[/quote]

I think it says that the Redskins only had 5 draft picks this year. John Clayton seemed to indicate the clinching factor was the 3rd round pick the Bears offered.

Despite not being a Bears fan, I listen to a lof of their talk radio. Like any group of fans, they have their brainless hunks of salami. But they also have their die harders who you feel for when things get rough. And when it comes to QB play, things have ALWAYS been rough. Was Jim McMahon the last Pro Bowler back in '85?

[smegma]

When I heard the news I too had to check the date to make sure it was April 2nd and not the 1st. Jerry Angelo holding true to his word that they will pursue and remedy the QB situation? Preposterous! I'm so stoked that I woke up early humming to myself. Before he even dons a Bears jersey he's already the most talented QB in franchise history. I can't believe it actually happened. I liked Orton but this guy is something special and I was following the Broncos from afar just cause I liked him (I do the same with NO and Brees). This makes the White Sox's abysmal situation heading into the start of the season (that being that they are likely going to suck) a little bit easier to take. Not much, but it gives me something to look forward to! Camp is going to be a madhouse this year. You still suck Angelo, but bravo. Two first rounders is nothing because Jerry doesn't even like drafting in the first round anyways (as you can tell from the quality of the drafts he's made). No more will I look longingly at every other team in the NFL that has long understood that getting a great QB is the road to success...we have now finally joined the ranks of...every other team.

[Rockroi]

I think the Bears just addressed their most desperate need, at least historically. However, they paid a very, very steep price. I mean, Cassell (who Cutler is superior to) only went for a second; this guy went for two firsts and a third, and the Bears get to get rid of Kyle Orton and get a 5th in return. I think the price was steep, but the Bears finally, finally addressed their Achilles Heal- their QB issues.

[quote]Herschel Walker got something like 6 draft picks. By comparison, this wasn't that big a deal.[/quote]

Walker was traded for some draft picks and a bunch of veteran players, who the Cowboys immediately cut and got even more draft picks for (as Jaime pointed out). It was the most lop-sided trade in NFL history – thus it does not really provide a good bench mark for judging this trade. I think its just a lot of draft potential securing a very good QB, thus preventing those resources to be used on the D. I do not think its Hershel Walker-level, but its still a lot of picks for one guy.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='uneedathneed' post='1743380' date='Apr 3 2009, 09.16']I agree. Having a quarterback who understands that it's all business and not acting like trade talks are the same as pissing on your mother is really great. I think the Redskins absolutely made the right call keeping Campbell. I'm not even sure it would have been worth it (for us) even if the price had been much lower (QB, 1st, 2rd round pick, for example). I don't think Cutler would have fit here.[/quote]

Yeah, Wilbon brought up a good point about how the Redskins were going to trade a young, strong-armed QB with a career record of 16-20 for another young, strong armed QB with a career record of 17-20. I think Cutler, at this point, is a better player, but I don't know if he's [i]so[/i] much better that we should kick in one first round pick, let alone two, especially considering how many other holes we got. As good as Cutler is, not sure he makes much of a difference if he's on his back all day.

The far more logical route would be to use those draft picks to surround your young QB (that you gave up extra picks to trade up to get in the first place) with the talent to make him successful, rather than starting from scratch with another guy who still won't have the talent around him for years because of what you traded to get him. It's like buying a sweet new engine for your car, but not understanding you're not getting anywhere because you still don't have wheels.

[quote name='Trebla' post='1743386' date='Apr 3 2009, 09.23']Despite not being a Bears fan, I listen to a lof of their talk radio. Like any group of fans, they have their brainless hunks of salami. But they also have their die harders who you feel for when things get rough. And when it comes to QB play, things have ALWAYS been rough. Was Jim McMahon the last Pro Bowler back in '85?[/quote]

Not sure, but was Erik Kramer a Pro Bowler in '93?

[Jaxom 1974]

In retrospect, it's a high price to pay. It isn't "steep".

Cutler was, I believe, the 11th overall pick and the third QB taken after Vince Young and Matt Leinert. So the Bears essentially are geting an 11th pick for this year's 18th. If things go at least as well as last season, they'll be giving up another 18 or lower next season. Where's the issue with that? Jerry Angelo, as we've noted, sucks at first round picks. Plenty of money saved by giving up two years worth there too. And I do believe the Bears still have 8 picks in the '09 draft as well.

So it's a high price, but it's no where near steep (especially if seen in the light of previous picks and general needs of the team) as it could have been.

[boiled leather]

[quote name='Jaxom 1974' post='1743434' date='Apr 3 2009, 07.16']In retrospect, it's a high price to pay. It isn't "steep".

So it's a high price, but it's no where near steep (especially if seen in the light of previous picks and general needs of the team) as it could have been.[/quote]


Agreed. But what if over the next 2 seasons, Orton Blossoms and Cutler is OK. Isn't there the potential that McD can coach up a QB and Chitown just doesn't really know how to build an offense? sometimes, I think its more about the organizational short-comings than the players they have. I don't think Chicago can build an offense that can be better than 12th in the league. I have never seen the strategy or execution since payton retired. Chicago is where receivers go to die. maybe, just maybe it is more than the QB. I don't know, I don't follow as them closely as most of you, but I do follow the NFL enough to have an opinion, however wrong it might be. :wideeyed:

I for one, was rooting for the 49ers to take Kyle Orton when he came out of Purdue, which didn't happen. Guess I'll have that same empty feeling when they pass on Pat White.

[Rockroi]

[quote]So it's a high price, but it's no where near steep (especially if seen in the light of previous picks and general needs of the team) as it could have been.[/quote]

I'm going to quibble here. I mean high price = steep. I think its a distinction without a difference.

Every team, baring some sort of compensation, gets only one (1) first round draft pick per season. Therefore, there are only so many first round draft picks to go around; each one is a premium because with those picks you have a very real chance of transforiming your team (ask the Colts). Yes, the chance for a bust is always there, but there is a reason teams pay huge for 1st rounders.

The Broncos just got two first rounders and a 3rd rounder for one player. That is "steep." Steep does not mean "too much" it just means "a lot." I think the Bears paid a "steep" price for one player. And that player addresses a long term problem for their team. But they paid a lot for it. Is it what the market will bear? Most likely. Cutler is, unlike first round draft picks, a proven NFL commodity that can do a lot with what is around him (he may be a bit of a head case, but whatever). At the same time, the Bears pay a huge oppertunity cost (they now lose those picks to address other needs on defense, etc). There is no getting around it- they paid a steep price, that may or may not have been worth it. Only time will tell.

[grozeng]

I think the Bears will improve but Cutler isn't going to be a savior. I'd be surprised if they make the palyoffs next year. I think Minnesota wins the division and they will be on the losing end of the Wild Card battle with Dallas, Philly or Atlanta taking them.

[Prince of the North]

[quote name='ZANNI_1276' post='1742742' date='Apr 2 2009, 17.21']EDIT: Kalbear, actually Yes, your WR is that bad. Hester is marginal at best and LLoyd, really - he is terrible. Need an upgrade, Holt would be very, very intresting for the bears...Very intresting indeed...[/quote]
I definitely agree with you about Holt. I think he could help. I do disagree with you a little bit on Lloyd, though. I think he's serviceable. Remember, he got hurt in week 4 last season and really never made it back. He had one good game in week 3 vs. TB but that was it. By the time he was trying to work his way back into the starting line-up toward the end of the season Orton was pretty solidly locked in on Hester. Oh well, like I said earlier I think Lloyd is ok if he can stay healthy (which is a big if). Also, I agree with those who say Cutler will make the Bears receivers better. Will they instantly become world-beaters? No. Will they be improved? I sure think so (how could they not be? :) )

[quote name='The Wedge' post='1743322' date='Apr 3 2009, 05.58']Yeah, but can Cutler grow a proper neckbeard?


I root for the Bears, but am no expert super fan. What I don't like about this trade is the Bears got a potential malcontent. But Jay can head that off at the pass if he's savvy.

Before he even gets to Halas Hall, Cutler would be wise to jump onto the talking head shows on The Score, ESPN 1000, and in the print/online media to start making friends with the mooks who shape a lot of how players get handled in the public eye. Tell some good stories, praise his teammates publicly and shamelessly, show he can laugh at himself, say how much he LOVES Chicago, etc. In general, kiss some ass.

If Cutler does that, things will be much easier for him and the team and they can relax and get down to business.[/quote]
Or...all Cutler has to do is win a game or three. If he wins then all will be golden in Chi-Town ;)

[Kalbear]

Grozeng, you're probably right. The bears need depth at defense, they could definitely use another offensive weapon (another WR that can stretch the field along with Hester would be ideal to match with Olsen), and there are issues with the coaching that makes me suspect. Next year, they may not make the playoffs (though they were really only one win away from making it this year and possibly clinching the division too).

Cutler isn't a next year answer. He's hopefully a next 10 years answer. He's 26, coming off of a 4500 yard season, with no real injury history. If the Bears get 5 good years out of him they'll come out better for it.

I'm okay with the Bears not making a huge push next year to make the playoffs. As I've said many times, I'd be happy if we could keep the same starting QB for more than 2 years. This is a big step in the kind of consistency that good teams have at QB.

[Prince of the North]

Absolutely, Kalbear! I'm getting a little miffed at all the talking heads that are coming off like if the Bears don't immediately make the playoffs [i]and[/i] win the Superbowl then this was a bad trade. If they play their cards right at all then Cutler should be their QB for years to come.

ETA: Took out unnecessary quote.

[grozeng]

[quote name='Prince of the North' post='1743601' date='Apr 3 2009, 12.12']Absolutely, Kalbear! I'm getting a little miffed at all the talking heads that are coming off like if the Bears don't immediately make the playoffs [i]and[/i] win the Superbowl then this was a bad trade. If they play their cards right at all then Cutler should be their QB for years to come.

ETA: Took out unnecessary quote.[/quote]

Exactly. The team needs to make some moves to utilize Cutler. My post was more in response to the people on this board saying the Bears go deep in the playoffs and the "Talking Heads" saying the trade is a failure if they don't make the playoffs. If they don't make the playoffs in 2 years, then we can talk about that. But the team around Cutler is not very different then last year's team Maybe Cutler will be worth 1 or 2 more wins. Maybe that can make the playoffs, but I don't see them doing that.

[Stego]

It blows my mind how much the Bears paid for Cutler. Why didn't they go after Cassel?

[Maithanet]

[quote name='Stego' post='1743686' date='Apr 3 2009, 13.29']It blows my mind how much the Bears paid for Cutler. Why didn't they go after Cassel?[/quote]

I think that a decent number of people think Cassel is still unproven. After all, he took a 16-0 team from the previous year and led them to a 11-5 finish. That's still a good season, but look at the talent. I think anyone could put up a pretty damn good season in the Patriots offense.

[Prince of the North]

[quote name='grozeng' post='1743676' date='Apr 3 2009, 12.22']Exactly. The team needs to make some moves to utilize Cutler. My post was more in response to the people on this board saying the Bears go deep in the playoffs and the "Talking Heads" saying the trade is a failure if they don't make the playoffs. If they don't make the playoffs in 2 years, then we can talk about that. But the team around Cutler is not very different then last year's team Maybe Cutler will be worth 1 or 2 more wins. Maybe that can make the playoffs, but I don't see them doing that.[/quote]
Grozeng,

I hope I didn't come off like I was criticizing or disagreeing with your post or calling [i]you[/i] a "talking head". I was referring to the "expert" talking heads on the internet, radio, etc. I think you and I are in complete agreement that the Bears don't need instant mega-success in order to justify the Cutler trade. I think that contention is just silly because Cutler is still so young and has the potential to be a very good QB for the Bears for a long time :)

[Trebla]

[quote name='Stego' post='1743686' date='Apr 3 2009, 12.29']It blows my mind how much the Bears paid for Cutler. Why didn't they go after Cassel?[/quote]

Probably because outside of Patriot circles, Cassel=Kyle Orton. Not that big a knock, really, especially since I stand corrected on a prior assumption. According to at least two national sources, the Broncos did prefer Orton over Jason Campbell. I will give McDaniels one thing, he appears to go down to the bitter end with his system and the type of players he thinks[b] fit [/b]it.

Oh and also from those two NFL sources that I heard on the radio, another name came up: Eric Mangini. They said that Cutler's agent Bus Cook wanted no part of dealing with Mangini again. After the Favre debacle and watching Pennigton lead the Dulphind to the playoffs, how dis Mangini get another job?

[DanteGabriel]

[quote name='Trebla' post='1743764' date='Apr 3 2009, 14.17']After the Favre debacle and watching Pennigton lead the Dulphind to the playoffs, how dis Mangini get another job?[/quote]
I guess after axing Belichick all those years ago, the Browns have a hard-on for Belichick disciples.

[grozeng]

[quote name='Prince of the North' post='1743743' date='Apr 3 2009, 14.04']Grozeng,

I hope I didn't come off like I was criticizing or disagreeing with your post or calling [i]you[/i] a "talking head". I was referring to the "expert" talking heads on the internet, radio, etc. I think you and I are in complete agreement that the Bears don't need instant mega-success in order to justify the Cutler trade. I think that contention is just silly because Cutler is still so young and has the potential to be a very good QB for the Bears for a long time :)[/quote]

Nope I completely understand you and was referring to the same Talking Heads.

On a side note, I don't think Cutler will be the savior either. He's a vast improvement on what they had but even 2 or 3 years from now his presence won't make the Bears the best of the NFC. I think it was a ton to give up for a QB even if it is a good QB. And I won't be surprised if he tanks with the Bears (I also wouldn't be surprised if he does really well).