The Queen has been cast.

[Fate's Bitch]

To chime in here, there is absolutely a difference in the volume of criticism directed towards the male and female actors regarding their looks. NCW's nose got the odd comment here and there. Lena Headey's breasts have spawned several pages of debate. Alfie Allen got one or two "I don't think he's attractive enough" comments. Tamzin Merchant was absolutely skewered for her looks. Even Jennifer Ehle, who's playing a character whose looks are not particularly important, got a lot of nasty fugly comments.

It is either wilful blindness or intellectual dishonesty to paint the occasional negative comment on the attractiveness of the males as being somehow equal to the ruthless precision with with each and every adult female is dissected.

(Not trying to single out individual posters here because it's more overarching than that.)

[Kalbear]

I think you're just getting a kick out of acting like you're somehow noble and enlightened and the rest of us are chauvinistic pigs.

Think what you like. I went and checked out the other casting thread again, and the only problem I saw that people mentioned NCW's nose was that it was broken, and there were lots of fanwankery to cover that.

So yeah, I apologize if I've missed some horrible description of NCW's huge schnozz being a big detriment to Jaime, but like Ran if people have a problem with that they're pretty idiotic too.

[Gabriele]

I hope we don't have people who end up being like some of the more annoying Tolkien purists, who simply harp on every minor deviation (and if Cersei's tits aren't a minor deviation, I don't really know what is) in the LotR film, every small detail about the actors not fitting, and so on. It's an adaption, it's an interpretation, and you're going to watch it anyways -- so focus on the good, people!

I haven't followed that one, but you mean there where voices like, OMG Boromir and Faramir are darkhaired in the book and you cast friggin' blondes? Well, I suppose there were. ;)

Now, Xen-Arwen and Aragorn falling down the Cliff of Uncanonicity are a different matter and I'm glad we escaped at least the first of those scriptscrewings. I hope GRRM will be able to prevent such cheap effect-seeking in case HBO tries to do it. And if they do pull a Cliff of Uncanonicity, then we can argue and get angry. Not because they cast an actress with Medieaval boobs* instead of Pam Anderson.

* Judging from a bunch of miniatures, a Medieaval girl would have killed for the set Lena has. Since ASOIAF is based on the Middle Ages, a 'fine bosom' might just look like that. ;)

[SergioCQH]

To chime in here, there is absolutely a difference in the volume of criticism directed towards the male and female actors regarding their looks. NCW's nose got the odd comment here and there. Lena Headey's breasts have spawned several pages of debate. Alfie Allen got one or two "I don't think he's attractive enough" comments. Tamzin Merchant was absolutely skewered for her looks. Even Jennifer Ehle, who's playing a character whose looks are not particularly important, got a lot of nasty fugly comments.

It is either wilful blindness or intellectual dishonesty to paint the occasional negative comment on the attractiveness of the males as being somehow equal to the ruthless precision with with each and every adult female is dissected.

(Not trying to single out individual posters here because it's more overarching than that.)

The reason the discussion about Lena Headey's breasts has lasted this long is thanks to the white knights that have ridden to rescue. Without them, we troglodytes would have had a difficult time extending it past one post each. When you have criticism of a male character's looks, there isn't that reactionary faction that comes in swinging.

[Ran]

All right, seriously, lets move on. This is getting bloody tedious.

[Basileus777]

GRRM has posted about Headey on his Not a Blog.

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

Am i the only one who thinks Headey's jaw is a good thing? It adds resemblence to NC-W.

[Ran]

Nice. Confirmation there that she did read for the part, so it wasn't just handed to her on a silver platter because of her name value in geek circles (and BTW, I think Twitter has been more abuzz with this casting news than with Sean Bean's casting as Ned).

They seem to have loved her range, which goes to show that she must have read scenes with a good variety. Actually, did we see the sides for Cersei? iheartseverus, did you post those? Be interesting again to see what scenes were used.

[Brude]

I think it's time to re-title this thread as "Horay For Boobies!!!"

[iheartseverus]

iheartseverus, did you post those? Be interesting again to see what scenes were used.

Yes, she had the opening scene arriving at Winterfell with Robert, etc. Nice moment there when Catelyn courteously mentions how beautiful Cersei's children are and Cersei shoots her a 'reptilian' look, no doubt wondering if Catelyn suspects the kids true parentage. Then, we have the newly-introduced scene where Cersei comes into Bran's room after the fall and tells Catelyn about her black-haired baby who died (while she's watching Bran, assessing whether he'll live/talk or not). And then her scene with... I'm blank here... the old maester as they stand over Jon Arryn's deathbed.

[Ser_not_appearing_yet]

Show me an equivalent scenario where a male actor's looks have come under such fire. The "reactionary faction", as you call us, would perhaps just like to see a discussion about the female roles that doesn't focus almost solely on their bangability. There's no reactionary faction for them because they don't experience the same level of criticism.

And no, saying Mark Addy is not tall enough is not at the same level of discourse as saying someone's not right for the part because she looks like a transvestite.

ETA: Sorry, Ran. Missed you while I was posting. I'll move on.

Tbf, 'bangability' does play a large role in Cersei's character. That said, Headey fullfills this more than adequately. ;)

[mormont]

[mod] You've been asked to move on, people. [/mod]

[Ser Greguh]

Ignoring looks, because I'm tired of my arguments being watered down (with gross inaccuracy) to my saying "zomg her tits aren't big enough!", and focusing on my other complaints for the time being, because there are points to be made here that I feel are fodder for more civilized, grown-up discussion.

Two points caught my eye:

I think she's a beautiful, regal, haughty woman, with a certain amount of charm, sensuality, low cunning, and innate viciousness. Vulnerable would be the last word I would apply to her, and cute would be almost as unlikely.

To act the charming and cute part, I'd say. She's still our dear, cold hearted, lusting for power Cersei behind her smiles.

This is all true, of course, when talking about Cersei in terms of her character. A killer with a smile is still, after all, a killer.

It's also completely irrelevant when making a casting decision, and thus not really what I was arguing against.

When you're casting a killer with a smile, you don't cast an actor based on their ability to kill, you cast them based on their ability to smile (then, in the script, you give them a gun and let them pull the trigger). You don't cast based on what someone does, you cast based on how they do it. Hans Gruber was not a great, scary villain because Alan Rickman is a scary man; he was a great, scary villain because Alan Rickman plays a charming, charismatic, intelligent man very well, and then the script of the movie had him doing scary things while being that charming, charismatic, intelligent man. Speculate on the character's inner soul all you want, what's really important are the characteristics he exudes.

Cersei's actions over the course of the series will reveal her low cunning, her innate viciousness, and her cold-hearted lusting for power. We needn't worry about that. It'll be in the script. She'll pull the trigger.

Her demeanor as she does so, there's the rub. This is what I mean when I defend the words "charming" and "vulnerable." It's more than the few instances in which she shows genuine vulnerability. It's a defense of her ability to play the victim, to exist as a woman in a man's world, to charm and make friends and seduce as we know she does (even when we, as observers, know she's completely full of shit). It's what prevents her from being a Soap Opera villain. There should be steel and fire at times too, of course ("We have a wolf" provides a hint of it, and the confrontation with Ned in the throne room provides more than a hint), but they're the exception, not the rule. Most of the rest of the time, she should be all charm, with a dash of sensuality and yes, vulnerability as well.

If we were casting for the Cersei of A Feast for Crows I'd feel a lot better about Headey. Events of the previous books precipitate a rather substantial shift in the character's overall behavior (even if the underlying nature and motives never really changed), one that she seems more suited to play.

I don't think that Headey is a bad actress, but good actresses can still be miscast, and I worry that if Headey plays Cersei like the bitch we all know she really is (which is consistent with her performances in what I've seen her in), she'll be a rather one-dimensional villain.

I'm a long way from screaming that the sky is falling, mind you, just stating that I worry that this is a potential misstep. She could certainly surprise me.

Edit: yikes, a lot can happen as a dude composes a long post. GRRM's Not-a-blog post does much to ease my concerns.

[alguien]

Sean Bean and now Lena Headey!

I'm actually pleasantly surprised by how many "big" name genre actors are getting cast in the series. It would be so great if it grew enough of an audience to become a movie!

Sigh. Wishful thinking. :) This is almost equivalent to how I felt when reading about the LOTR films in pre-production.

[daimonion]

Am i the only one who thinks Headey's jaw is a good thing? It adds resemblence to NC-W.

Yup. I like it.

[Trebla]

I don't think that Headey is a bad actress, but good actresses can still be miscast, and I worry that if Headey plays Cersei like the bitch we all know she really is (which is consistent with her performances in what I've seen her in), she'll be a rather one-dimensional villain

Again, I think you are missing the point. She rather IS a one dimensional villain that uses her looks as a weapon. She has sex with her brother. She demands the direwolves be killed. She berates Robert. We begin to suspect she murdered Jon Arryn. For a good portion of the book, we see her (and Jaime)as the main villain while Littlefinger hides in plain sight.

Another thing is that she's a poor villain. She's not as smart as she thinks she is. She only defeats Ned because Sansa and Ned's reluctance. Littlefinger is thereal mastermind. Cersei is an icy, slap happy fool.

[alguien]

Again, I think you are missing the point. She rather IS a one dimensional villain that uses her looks as a weapon. She has sex with her brother. She demands the direwolves be killed. She berates Robert. We begin to suspect she murdered Jon Arryn. For a good portion of the book, we see her (and Jaime)as the main villain while Littlefinger hides in plain sight.

Another thing is that she's a poor villain. She's not as smart as she thinks she is. She only defeats Ned because Sansa and Ned's reluctance. Littlefinger is thereal mastermind. Cersei is an icy, slap happy fool.

Yes, even at 14, Jon could see through her smile. The only person Cersei really fools is Sansa. To the reader, its pretty clear Cersei is Cruella De Ville from the get-go.

[Gabriele]

Yes, even at 14, Jon could see through her smile. The only person Cersei really fools is Sansa.

And that doesn't take much. :P

[The Anti-Targ]

I'll reserve judgement on this casting job. I've never been particularly impressed by the roles I've seen her play. I was never a fan of the Terminator TV series, though my sister is so this will give her added incentive to keep watching even after Sean Bean leaves the series.

Looks-wise she isn't the stunning beauty who can justify Cersei's supreme vanity. But there are few who are. It's one of the advantages of writing a book, you can create the concept of extreme beauty without having to show it in reality.

Honestly, complaining about boob size is so beneath this forum. GRRM may have described Cersei as voluptuous in the books but I truly don't remember this being one of her distinguishing (let alone important to the story) characteristics. So complaining about boobs is worse than complaining about ...actually every other complaint I've read has some valid basis to it so I can't draw a comparison. The boob complaint has no validity to it whatsoever so it cannot even be compared to other complaints in a negative way: it would only serve to unfairly devalue those other complaints by suggesting they are almost equally baseless.

[Ser Greguh]

Again, I think you are missing the point. She rather IS a one dimensional villain that uses her looks as a weapon. She has sex with her brother. She demands the direwolves be killed. She berates Robert. We begin to suspect she murdered Jon Arryn. For a good portion of the book, we see her (and Jaime)as the main villain while Littlefinger hides in plain sight.

Another thing is that she's a poor villain. She's not as smart as she thinks she is. She only defeats Ned because Sansa and Ned's reluctance. Littlefinger is thereal mastermind. Cersei is an icy, slap happy fool.

If you look at her role within the scope of the entire series, sure, I'll buy that.

Within the scope of Book I, though, I think she is an exceptional villain. Back in the start of Game of Thrones, when we all thought the books were largely going to be about Starks vs. Lannisters, she is a wonderful foil for Stark's straightforward, honorable approach, the one schemer in King's Landing who never bothers to pretend that she's on his side, even for an instant, and winds up eating him for breakfast anyway. She orchestrates many of the event that drive the first book, and does a very good job of working her way up the ladder of power, playing the Game.

Then the scope of the story expands and she to a degree gets swallowed up by the better players - in part because of her own stupidity, and in part because like Robert, she's well-suited to acquiring power but totally clueless when it comes to what to do with it.

We're casting for the pilot, though, and for Book I.