Lost Season 6 thread

[Caligula_K]

Stupid little nitpick but bothered me for some reason. The real mother is supposed to be Roman given that she speaks Latin and is named Claudia. But she names her son Jacob? Do some fricken research Lost writers.

Ya, I laughed a lot at this part. Maybe she's a really really really Romanized Jew? Or a Roman aristocratic Jew? Hmm...

So, I think this is as much an answer for the Smoke Monster as we're going to get. Which is silly, because it explains very little. Granting that the Smoke Monster is not Jacob's brother but was just waiting for someone to free it, is it just a representation of all the evil in the world? Then why is it at turns a judge (see: Eko, Ben), a security system (see: the death of the pilot, it attacking Rousseau's team) and a lackey (see: The New Otherton Keamy Team Smokedown). If that light is necessary for the good of the world and all that, why is everything in the Sideways timeline okay, since the island has sunk? I hate the fact that we're going into the series finale without understanding the stakes of the show. As far as we know, Jacob's fake mother was just crazy and nothing will happen to the world without the island or if the Smoke Monster escapes.

And if the Smoke Monster is a separate identity from Jacob's brother, which seems most likely, why do the rules still apply to them? Why can't Smokie kill Jacob?

Haha, Kimmel is on right now and there's a skit starring Pellegrino and Welliver. Pretty funny. Connect Four Million!

[Gertrude]

I hate the fact that we're going into the series finale without understanding the stakes of the show.

This is what it comes down to for me (but he said it much more succinctly.)

Another stupid nitpick - Mom said Jacob never could lie, but he seems to do just fine these days. He may not lie per se, but he's damn good at misleading and keeping his cards close to his chest, which is a close cousin of the lie. Why say that specifically if it's not really true - could have said, 'he could never hide anything from me' to the same effect. Am I nitpicking too much? I think I might be.

[Deluge]

Gah, I really should have expected this, after we got burned by "Ab Aeterno", but I was honestly hoping for something awesome. I mean, at long last, we're given the story of Jacob and MIB, and yet when all is said and done, it really falls flat. Not just because we weren't given answers, but because I really couldn't get into their story. Keeping things vague backfired for the writers, because not only did we not really learn any explanations, but we really didn't learn that much about the characters. I couldn't have cared less when the mother died, or during Jacob's confrontation with his brother. I guess that Jacob and his brother were somewhat interesting, and I definitely sympathized with MIB more than the others, but I still couldn't bring myself to care about them.

[CloudFlare]

I liked the birth of Smokey. I think he's still Jacob's brother, not a icon of evil.

Honestly though, I was hoping for Claudia(?) to give birth to Smokey right then and there, a la Melisandra.

[CloudFlare]

The final shot will be Matthew Fox waking up and heading downstairs one morning. He'll grab a bowl of cereal and sit down at the breakfast table and proceed to explain the strange dream he had to Neve Campbell, Scott Wolf and Lacey Chabert. And then Scott Wolf will talk about his strange dream too, only his had aliens.

Lol, at this point that would probably be better than anything the producers could come up with at this point.

[Kat]

Well, the preview for next week shows that the writers planned seasons 3.5-6 while listening to "The End". That explains everything. Clearly. :worried:

[Arbor Gold]

Ok, so Claudia was already pregnant when she landed on the island, then she gave birth to Jacob and MiB. Reminded me of Claire and how she has to be the one to raise Aaron.

[Kat]

Ok, so Claudia was already pregnant when she landed on the island, then she gave birth to Jacob and MiB. Reminded me of Claire and how she has to be the one to raise Aaron.

Reminded me of Rousseau and Ben, actually. Ben has the most in common with Allison Janney's character of anyone we've seen so far.

[CloudFlare]

So was Smokey influencing the Dharma Initiative, or were they exploring on their own?

[Jon AS]

What a terrible, terrible episode. Not only did it not provide anything resembling answers (vague references to past mysteries and retconning the age of the skeletons in the cave don't constitute answers), the plot and characterisation were ridiculously bad.

So this seems to confirm everyone's greatest concern regarding the show: it's just not going to come together at the end and will end in terrible disappointment. The writers just couldn't handle a series-spanning plot and just keep throwing stuff at the viewers in the hope that no one notices. At the start of this season I was hopeful that given that they'd known when the show would end they would be able to provide decent closure, but as it progressed I slowly lost that hope and now it has completely evaporated. This will probably be the kind of ending that manages to drag down even the good parts of the show in retrospect.

ETA: I just realised that the birth scene makes for a neat parallel with the entire show:

"You've got a boy."

"His name is Jacob."

"Oh, hey look! There is another one!"

"Uh, I only had that one name..."

"So you've got this bunch of people stranded on this island."

"With monsters! And polar bears! And a mysterious hatch"

"Hey, look! You've got a second season!"

"Uh..."

[The hairy bear]

This episode was a joke. I want to leave the island, but even being surrounded by people who shipwrecked I won't try to buy a raft. Instead I'll convince them that qe should try to mix water with a complete unknown source of light, add a wheel to the mix, and let's hope that this takes me out of the island.

And how do I know this? Because I'm special. The "specialness" is, I suspect, being a walking Deus ex Machina that goes arround creating tension, killing without reason characters whose actors want to leave the show, obeying Ben's orders to get rid of mercenaries, or planting bombs on submarines of guys who want to... leave the island. Great.

And this thing of being special is old. You already used it with Waaaaaalt. You didn't convince that time either.

Two episodes for the end and they give us this? And then they throw in bits from the first season and want me to believe that they were planing that the skeleton of "Adam" was smokey in his previous human form? Really? Are you kidding me!! :tantrum:

[Tb0ne]

How the hell did she kill everyone?

I watched the episode again to try and see how it might have happened and I can only think of two ways,

1. No one other than the Candidates (Jacob and MIB) could kill her, so she just killed them all after she knocked out the MIB.

2. She had first hand knowledge of what happens when someone walks into the EMP light and was also some sort of smoke monster.

You could make strong cases for either one or two, especially if the Egyptian part of Lost's mythology wasn't completely thrown out. They were still there for long enough to build the Statue, temple, and the smoke monster vents. If we are to assume that the people were Romans it doesn't seem as likely that the Egyptians would have shown up afterwards to build all of those structures.

So.. we can semi-safely assume that the MIB isn't the first smoke monster as the Egyptian's engravings indicate that one existed during their time on the Island as well. Whether pseudo-mother was the first smoke monster is a good question but I suspect she wasn't.

What I found most interesting was whether she was telling the truth when she told Jacob that he had to be the protector and that she just didn't realise it before.

Initially she may have believed that the MIB was more suited for the role because he was like her, willing to lie and didn't believe that people could be trusted. When she finally sees the lengths he will go to leave she decides he must be stopped. Before the MIB can kill her she recruits Jacob who is unwilling to lie, believes that people are good, doesn't want to leave, and most importantly would never defy his mothers wishes that he never go into the light. What she didn't envision is that Jacob would get revenge the only way he could.

[Shryke]

This episode was a joke. I want to build the island, but I even being surrounded by people who shipwrecked I won't try to buy a raft. Instead I'll convince them that qe should try to mix water with a complete unknown source of light, add a wheel to the mix, and let's hope that this takes me out of the island.

Remember when Desmond tried this?

Yeah, you can't leave the Island by boat without knowing the EXACT heading to use remember?

[Shryke]

This episode was interesting. WAY lighter on the concrete answers then I was hoping for though.

We still need some explanations about the Temple/Statue and who the fuck built all that shit. Cause it sure as fuck wasn't the Roman people from what I gathered. And I loved the "And then I'll use a wheel to turn light and ... hey, look over there!". Good job guys, way to show you don't know WTF you are talking about. Make something up for fucks sake.

Also Fake-Mother's latin was fucking awful and I was so happy when they switched to english finally.

As for the corpses, I figure since the Island cures cancer and can stop aging and shit, why not slow down decomp?

We do get alot of hints/answers about the Smoke Monster though. Whatever is down beneath the Island, some part of it is death related or evil or something. She calls it "Life. Death. Rebirth.".

But what's very clear is some or all of it wants OUT. It appears to MIB (I've decided to name him Will Smith because he's the black one and Will Smith was in MIB the movie) as his real mother (surrounded by suspiciously familiar light) and pushes him to join the other survivors and plants the seeds of his all consuming desire to leave the Island which inevitably leads to him digging the holes and, if Fake-Mommy hadn't stopped him, letting the thing beneath the Island loose we assume.

The other thing clear here is that Jacob does kill his brother. After all, Smoky only appears as dead people. Or at least, as corpses that are on the Island.

But anyway, it seems like chucking Will Smith down the whole lead to him merging somehow with the shit down their and changing him in some way into Smoky. Like Will's soul merged with the stuff that wants out from below the Island and he became this thing with some of the powers of the Island's Cthulhu.

Now we just need an explanation for the Cabin shit. Was it Jacob or Big Willy in there?

I'm thinking it was Will and the stuff with Illyena from S5 seems to support this. I think somehow Jacob trapped Will Smith's .... consciousness in there. This left the Smoke Monster free, but undirected. Like it returned to the state it had been in before Jacob chucked his negro-at-heart brother down the rabbit hole. Some rudimentary sense of purpose, but no direction or consciousness.

We'll have to see how this ties in with it being stuck in Locke's form and needing Ben and the Candidates and such.

[Baleraxar]

Remember when Desmond tried this?

Yeah, you can't leave the Island by boat without knowing the EXACT heading to use remember?

So they can build a combination time machine/teleporter, but they can't calculate a damn compass bearing? Sure.

Nothing about this made any sense. Alison Janney doesn't want MiB to leave, so she kills the people building the frozen donkey wheel. At some point in the future the FDW is completed, MiB knows this and... doesn't use it. Because now he needs to kill Jacob. And all the candidates. Even though that was never a requirement before. Maybe because he's the smoke monster now? Meanwhile Jacob, who is the new mystical protector is allowed to go traipsing about the outside world whenever he feels like it. Even though he doesn't want to leave the Island.

[Shryke]

So they can build a combination time machine/teleporter, but they can't calculate a damn compass bearing? Sure.

What compass bearing though? How the fuck would they know which compass bearing to use?

It's been WELL established for fucking AGES now that getting off the Island by boat is damn near impossible without knowing EXACTLY how. I don't get why this is a big problem for you people.

As for how Will Smith knows what to do with the light? I'm going to assume his dead mom told him.

Fuck, thinking about it, she may be the one who helped shape his view of the people he was living with as real shitheads.

Nothing about this made any sense. Alison Janney doesn't want MiB to leave, so she kills the people building the frozen donkey wheel. At some point in the future the FDW is completed, MiB knows this and... doesn't use it. Because now he needs to kill Jacob. And all the candidates. Even though that was never a requirement before. Maybe because he's the smoke monster now? Meanwhile Jacob, who is the new mystical protector is allowed to go traipsing about the outside world whenever he feels like it. Even though he doesn't want to leave the Island.

Will Smith is DEAD. They found his very well preserved corpse. He's just a Smoke Monster now. Jacob can traipse about because he's alive.

As for the FDW I got no fucking clue. Maybe it was put together different later?

[Ran]

I don't see how being able to calculate a compassing bearing would be of any use, since they don't know they even need an exact compass bearing to get out. How that's eventually discovered is a question. Possibly, via interrogation of people arriving over the centuries, figuring that they all managed to find the island from the same precise direction, and then experimenting with it.

Weird, I was always sure Adam wore a suit, so I figured it had something to do with time travel. Guess I was wrong on that.

Re: Claudia and Jacob, obviously, Claudia was a Roman Jew. ;)

[Mya Stone]

So they can build a combination time machine/teleporter, but they can't calculate a damn compass bearing? Sure.

Nothing about this made any sense. Alison Janney doesn't want MiB to leave, so she kills the people building the frozen donkey wheel. At some point in the future the FDW is completed, MiB knows this and... doesn't use it. Because now he needs to kill Jacob. And all the candidates. Even though that was never a requirement before. Maybe because he's the smoke monster now? Meanwhile Jacob, who is the new mystical protector is allowed to go traipsing about the outside world whenever he feels like it. Even though he doesn't want to leave the Island.

Alison Janney doesn't want him to leave because she has spent his entire life setting him up for releasing her from her "position/prison."

Jacob and the MIB were the original candidates to take over the top spot of Island Protector . It seems Mother figured out quite early on which brother was going to be the one to take over for her, and which brother was going to be the one to release her from her bonds. What she didn't foresee was Jacob's wrath over her death, and what would happen to the MIB.

I think the MIB is confined by the Island after becoming the Smoke Monster, but because he is still essentially the MIB, he is still confined by the rules that Mother gave them, i.e. neither can kill each other. Sure, MIB's body is skeletal now, but his soul seems to reside in the Smoke Monster - the real question is was the Smoke Monster in existence but contained by the light previous to encountering MIB, or is the Smoke Monster the disembodied soul of the MIB, and a manifestation of all his rage and frustration?

Also - how do we know that the MIB's mother's apparition is a manifestation of "Smokey?" He was special, you know. Hurley, Walt, Ben, and Locke were special too - and some of them could see dead people. So who's to say that it was a direct manipulation of the "Smoke Monster?" (which I'm not sure was even corporeal let alone in existence before the MIB became and or merged with it).

[Ran]

Agree on that. That was Claudia's ghost or what have you. Not Smokey.

It does leave the question open how Mother Dearest destroyed the village and killed all of its inhabitants, as well as filled in the well with rubble, though. Unless she was indeed Smokey 1.0, I guess, and that knife (same knife which is later given to Sayid as a means of killing Smokey, right?) was able to end her. Perhaps the whole thing about "don't let him speak" explains why Mother Dearest was silent through that whole scene, until her death -- one of the "rules" by which Smokey lives or something...

Yeah, I guess that's all that I've got. Mother Dearest was Smokey at that time.

[Mya Stone]

Agree on that. That was Claudia's ghost or what have you. Not Smokey.

It does leave the question open how Mother Dearest destroyed the village and killed all of its inhabitants, as well as filled in the well with rubble, though. Unless she was indeed Smokey 1.0, I guess, and that knife (same knife which is later given to Sayid as a means of killing Smokey, right?) was able to end her. Perhaps the whole thing about "don't let him speak" explains why Mother Dearest was silent through that whole scene, until her death -- one of the "rules" by which Smokey lives or something...

Yeah, I guess that's all that I've got. Mother Dearest was Smokey at that time.

But...she died.

I understand it's hard to explain how she destroyed and killed everyone in that village, but I can't imagine she's Smokey 1.0. She's a non-aging entity there to protect the Island, so I can give them the benefit of the doubt on her having super powers. She was corporeal, however, and she was able to be killed. I can't see how Smokey can be killed by knife/gunfire/bomb - I'm guessing he has to be returned to the source.