Lost Season 6 thread

[Shryke]

I don't know. I think the suspiciously-familiar light around Real Mom when she appears was a big fucking hint about where she came from. She's a Smokey-like projection of a dead person on the Island.

And what's she do? She puts Will Smith on the path to freeing her.

But there seems to be alot of back-and-forth between what's black and what's white in the show. Why do the Others, the white guys, have the black guy's knife and use the same "Don't let him speak, just stab" shpeal as Will Smith does? There's something weird there.

Also, I read someone else point out an interesting parallel. Jack is Jacob and Locke is Will Smith. Locke was always the special one, the one with powers who was really in to the Island and who everyone, even the Others, seemed to think was gonna be "The One" or whatever. Just like Will Smith was gonna be "The One".

But in the end it turns out he wasn't The One, it was Jacob/Jack. Just like Fake Mom says "It was always supposed to be you, Jacob. I see that now and one day you'll see it too.". Everyone was wrong.

[Mya Stone]

I don't know. I think the suspiciously-familiar light around Real Mom when she appears was a big fucking hint about where she came from. She's a Smokey-like projection of a dead person on the Island.

Isabella (Richard's wife) was luminous when she appeared in that last scene with Hurley and Richard, and Damon and Carlton have said that anyone Hurley has seen can be said to not be a manifestation of the Smoke Monster.

Yemi wasn't glowing when he appeared to Eko, and Isabella on the Black Rock wasn't glowing, either. Alex wasn't when she appeared to Ben.

I dunno. I'm sticking with ghost.

[Shryke]

Also, I was doing some looking back in the season for other stuff and stumbled across something:

I get why Drogan had the stupid complicated plan to kill Sayid.

They can't kill Candidates. Only other Candidates can.

They needed Jack to give Sayid the poison because otherwise it wouldn't kill him.

[Jon AS]

Why do the Others, the white guys, have the black guy's knife and use the same "Don't let him speak, just stab" shpeal as Will Smith does? There's something weird there.

Didn't Will give the knife to Richard when he first sent him to kill Jacob? And IIRC Jacob didn't give it back to Mr. Smith at the end of that episode.

The question is why Drogan sent Sayid to kill Locke when it could lead to neither Locke's nor Sayid's death, as Smoky can't kill candidates. Or was Sayid offically an ex-candidate by then?

ETA: Of course the poison plot implies that Sayid was still considered a candidate...I'm beginning to suspect that the writers may not have thought the plot through all that thoroughly...

[Shryke]

Didn't Will give the knife to Richard when he first sent him to kill Jacob? And IIRC Jacob didn't give it back to Mr. Smith at the end of that episode.

The question is why Drogan sent Sayid to kill Locke when it could lead to neither Locke's nor Sayid's death, as Smoky can't kill candidates. Or was Sayid offically an ex-candidate by then?

ETA: Of course the poison plot implies that Sayid was still considered a candidate...I'm beginning to suspect that the writers may not have thought the plot through all that thoroughly...

Yeah, that parts a bit strange.

Also, I just rewatched that part of that episode. Sayid actually stabs Locke Smith. So does the dagger not work? Does it not work anymore? Or does it not work because Locke Smith got out a "Hey, how's it going?" before getting speed holed?

So Will Smith kills Bad Latin Mom with the knife. Then he sends Richard to kill Jacob with the same knife, telling him "Not to let him say a word". Richard gets his ass kicked.

Then years later, Drogan sends Sayid to kill Locke Smith with the same knife and the same instructions as Big Willy gave Richard.

Locke Smith implies that they sent Sayid to die by someone his hands cause they couldn't kill him themselves. But we know he lies.

So did they send Sayid to his death? Or were they really actually trying to kill Will Smith? Did they know Locke Smith couldn't kill Candidates or not? Would it have actually killed Willy Locke if he hadn't gotten a word out first?

[The hairy bear]

Yeah, you can't leave the Island by boat without knowing the EXACT heading to use remember?

I can give you that. It's still bad storytelling because they didn't show or mention that they had tried and failed, but I can give you that. It still doesn't explain how the idea of mixing magical light, water and wooden wheels came from.

You'd also need to accept that the attempts of fleeing with the submarine or the plane that the losties were doing last week had no chance of success, since Ben wasn't with them and hadn't told him which the direction was (or this also hapened offscreen?)

They needed Jack to give Sayid the poison because otherwise it wouldn't kill him.

But who are "they"? Wasn't Dragan a leader of the others? Weren't the Others Jacob's men? And Jacob doesn't want MiB to leave, so why would he be interested into killing a candidate? :thumbsdown:

My head hurts. Since now I'm sure I'm giving to it more thought than the writers ever did, I won't try to find an explanation for them. :P

[Shryke]

I can give you that. It's still bad storytelling because they didn't show or mention that they had tried and failed, but I can give you that. It still doesn't explain how the idea of mixing magical light, water and wooden wheels came from.

You'd also need to accept that the attempts of fleeing with the submarine or the plane that the losties were doing last week had no chance of success, since Ben wasn't with them and hadn't told him which the direction was (or this also hapened offscreen?)

I'm pretty sure they learned the secret at some point. I think in S4 when the Freigther showed up.

If not, the Captain they've got hostage sure as hell knows.

But who are "they"? Wasn't Dragan a leader of the others? Weren't the Others Jacob's men? And Jacob doesn't want MiB to leave, so why would he be interested into killing a candidate? :thumbsdown:

My head hurts. Since now I'm sure I'm giving to it more thought than the writers ever did, I won't try to find an explanation for them. :P

Um, I'm just going to assume you've completely forgotten the beginning of the season. The Others do work for Jacob (although they don't know pretty much anything about what he wants or any of that shit). But they think/know Sayid is all evil inside and think he's a danger and want to eliminate him. Hence their attempts to off him. But they do know they can't do it themselves.

[The hairy bear]

Um, I'm just going to assume you've completely forgotten the beginning of the season. The Others do work for Jacob (although they don't know pretty much anything about what he wants or any of that shit). But they think/know Sayid is all evil inside and think he's a danger and want to eliminate him. Hence their attempts to off him. But they do know they can't do it themselves.

I remembered this, but still doesn't have much sense. Why zombie/Sayid was a danger? If you know that there are six candidates that have to die before MiB can leave the island, you don't kill one. You keep him closed in a cell, for instance.

In any case, we have seen others kill candidates before. At least Daniel Faraday was one and was killed by them.

[Rexor]

It's too early for me to continue the discussion currently, but...

Shryke...yes. Good points all around. :thumbsup:

[Shryke]

I remembered this, but still doesn't have much sense. Why zombie/Sayid was a danger? If you know that there are six candidates that have to die before MiB can leave the island, you don't kill one. You keep him closed in a cell, for instance.

He apparently came back evil and this meant they had to kill him. I don't know what more you want.

In any case, we have seen others kill candidates before. At least Daniel Faraday was one and was killed by them.

By that point he may have no longer been a candidate. He got his name crossed off, the Island was done with him.

[Rexor]

I remembered this, but still doesn't have much sense. Why zombie/Sayid was a danger? If you know that there are six candidates that have to die before MiB can leave the island, you don't kill one. You keep him closed in a cell, for instance.

In any case, we have seen others kill candidates before. At least Daniel Faraday was one and was killed by them.

Maybe the Others have no idea what the rules really are? Maybe they don't know that the smoke monster can't leave until no one is left to protect the island?

I mean, it doesn't seem like Jacob's been really up front with anyone about what the hell is going on.

[Shryke]

Also, something else interesting:

When Locke sees the Monster back in Season 1, he describes it as a "beautiful bright light".

[Rexor]

Also, something else interesting:

When Locke sees the Monster back in Season 1, he describes it as a "beautiful bright light".

Yarp.

And again...I couldn't care less if it's retcon, as long as it makes sense.

[Mya Stone]

He apparently came back evil and this meant they had to kill him. I don't know what more you want.

By that point he may have no longer been a candidate. He got his name crossed off, the Island was done with him.

Faraday was shot and killed by Eloise, who was the leader of the Others at that point, and I'm pretty sure she was a candidate.

Sayid was consumed with darkness - Dogen explained that his balance was leaning dark. They wanted to kill him before he was completely dark, thus becoming an easy tool for the MIB to use (Re: Claire, and uh...everything Sayid did from Sundown through Everybody Loves Hugo.). I don't think they knew that people could come back from that darkness. (We've seen glimpses of Sweet Claire, and Sayid was redeemed in the end.)

EDIT: So Shryke, are you on Team Mya for this episode?

[delete this account pls]

Jacob: Goodbye brother. Goodbye ....

Me: Say it. SAY IT. GOODBYE WHO? SAY HIS NAME! SAY HIS NAME YOU MOPEY-EYED MOTHERFUCKER!

[Jaxom 1974]

Jacob has been portrayed as someone who believes in the goodness in men and seeks to prove it ... why again? His mom told him people are bad.

I'm not so sure that Jacob's attempts to show that people are good are part of his own desire to prove that he himself is good and not like the other people on the island that his "mother" and brother told him about. He got angry (and you won't like him when he's angry) and lashed out, all but killing his brother and giving him to the light (which in turn changed him to darkness, which makes my head spin a little). It's a personal crusade of Jacob's, which is why he begins to allow people to come to the island...

Also, who else noticed that "Mom" is the one who left the little game for the Kid in Black, yet when he teaches Jacob how to play, Jacob complains that KiB is making up the rules...?

[denstorebog]

Omg, that was too funny.

So, to sum up the answers that we've been waiting for forever:

Q: Why did MiB want to leave the island?

A: Because he wanted to get to the other side.

That's right, the ultimate joke from the writers on the viewers is that the final answer to Lost, the most convoluted and mystifying show ever, is that same as to 'why did the chicken cross the road?' MiB wants to leave because he wants off the island. The only reason he had to be prevented from doing this, to the point of FLOATING HIM INTO A BLOB OF GLOWING LIGHT, is that some old harridan wanted him, not his brother, to stay and guard the blob. Even after that plan went to hell and MiB left to dig holes in the ground, no, he still wasn't allowed to leave. Mother Earth said so.

Follow-up questions and answers:

Q: Why is MiB able to transform himself into specifically a monster made of smoke and take other people's forms, and why is he contained by ashes?

A: Because he touched The Light.

Q: Why can't MiB and Jacob kill each other?

A: Because the old woman "made it so".

Q: If MiB and Jacob can't kill each other, how did Jacob kill MiB?

A: He made him touch The Light.

Q: If Jacob can beat MiB to a bloody pulp then send him floating down a river into The Light and thus kill him, why have Jacob and MiB pussyfooted around each other for 2000 years waiting for someone to show up and, you know, kill the other?

A: The Light.

Q: Why is there a giant wheel under the island that can transport the entire island through time and space and whatnot, what what?

A: Because MiB made it, using a spade and a pickaxe and intimate understanding of The Light that no one understands. He's special.

Seriously, this is no longer the new Battlestar Galactica of endings, it's the new Phantom Menace of moving images. I'll leave you with the Lost quote that corresponds with TPM's "Are you an angel?"

"I'm going to make an opening, one much bigger than this one, and then I'm going to attach this wheel to a system we're building, a system that channels the water and the light, and then I'm going to turn it, and when I do, I'll finally be able to leave this place."

"How do you know all this? How do you know it will work?"

"I'm SPECIAL, mother."

[marwyn]

Jacob: Goodbye brother. Goodbye ....

Me: Say it. SAY IT. GOODBYE WHO? SAY HIS NAME! SAY HIS NAME YOU MOPEY-EYED MOTHERFUCKER!

Yeah I had exactly the same feelings when Mother was saying goodbye to MiB down in the well. So frustrating :P THey really took great pains to avoid the name.

[Werthead]

This was one of the worst-written episodes of Lost ever. The dialogue was shockingly bad, to the point where I felt very bad for Titus Welliver, Mark Pellegrino and Alison Janney, all of whom seemed to not really know how to handle the material.

Some of the mythological developments and ideas felt trite, at best, and the Glowing Cave of Light may be the single corniest thing ever in the history of the show.

On the plus side, it was a lot better than its BSG analogue, No Exit, and some elements of the series are clarified.

One odd thing which is at variance with the spoilers we got prior to this episode:

We were told that the hole that Smokey tried to pull Locke into in the S1 finale would be addressed in this episode, and we'd be left asking if Locke would have become a second smoke monster. Nothing remotely like this happened. Presumably Locke would have only become a second smoke monster if he'd been pulled into another Cave of Light, and even that is highly uncertain.

[Kalbear]

Um, I'm just going to assume you've completely forgotten the beginning of the season. The Others do work for Jacob (although they don't know pretty much anything about what he wants or any of that shit). But they think/know Sayid is all evil inside and think he's a danger and want to eliminate him. Hence their attempts to off him. But they do know they can't do it themselves.

Okay. So your theory before was that Sayid was a candidate, so only Jack or another candidate could kill him. But that didn't work, so they sent Sayid to get killed by smokey. But smokey can't kill candidates either - and Dogen would know that too, right?

So what's the point of sending Sayid to smokey again? Heck, the only possible 'good' outcome is that Sayid runs off and doesn't meet Smokey. As it stood, he met up with him and teamed up with him, and ended the temple. Which, ya know, you would totally expect to happen after the failure of killing smokey.

I also think it's clear that fakemom wasn't smokey, but I suspect that she could summon smokey. She's super strong like Jacob and the rest of the touched Others were, but she's pretty clearly corporeal and wise and stuff.

And yeah, it was a bit disappointing that so little concrete answers were given. The only solid explanation was the adam&eve cave, and that was a very clear retcon. I'm back to rooting for FLocke.