Former Penn State Football Coach Sexual Abuse Coverup

[IheartTesla]

I dont understand how a college football coach can be the most powerful man on campus, or indeed the state (the latter may be a little bit of hyperbole). Actually I do understand, a lot has to do with endowments by alumni, popularity of one school over another etc etc. But the prioritization by colleges is still f-ed up. Building new stadiums while scientists struggle for lab space, equipment etc....closing down parking on campus while a game is in progress... somehow the original ideals of a university seem to have become distorted.

[Hooplehead]

But once he saw that this guy wasn't arrested, and was actually given an office, there is simply no excuse for him not following up and finding out why the hell the guy is still there. Sounds to me like he just considered this a huge tar baby that he just wanted off his desk.

Sandusky isn't just "some guy" ... he was Paterno's heir apparent and right hand man for, what, 25 years? If the guy is hanging around as a "coach emeritus" with an office in the facility, etc, it's because Paterno was cool with him being here. It's not like JoePa has to get up and ask "Why is this guy still here?" It's not like the decision as to whether or not to keep him around was made independent of Paterno.

[Greywolf2375]

I dont understand how a college football coach can be the most powerful man on campus, or indeed the state (the latter may be a little bit of hyperbole). Actually I do understand, a lot has to do with endowments by alumni, popularity of one school over another etc etc. But the prioritization by colleges is still f-ed up. Building new stadiums while scientists struggle for lab space, equipment etc....closing down parking on campus while a game is in progress... somehow the original ideals of a university seem to have become distorted.

From "The Program"

"This is not a football vocational school. It's an institute for higher learning."

"Coach Winters: Yeah, but when was the last time 80,000 people showed up to watch a kid do a damn chemistry experiment?"

That's why. Doesn't make it right, but it's accurate.

[Kalbear]

But anyway, if my adviser had told me that he would make sure that things were handled correctly and investigated, I probably would have trusted that.

I don't understand this at all.

The GA - who was 28 at the time and a football player prior to that - told a grand jury that he witnessed Jerry Sandusky anally raping a 10-year old child. He told the grand jury that he actually made eye contact with both Sandusky and the victim. And he left immediately, called his father (who advised him to leave; another detail was that his father was friends with Sandusky), and then the next day they decided to bring this information to Paterno.

What investigation would need to be taken for that to be 'taken care of'? This isn't some odd innuendo that the GA heard. This was him witnessing a felony, a rape of a child. And his thought process wasn't 'let's call the police' or 'let me intervene', it was 'how do I handle this so that Penn State is okay?'

And that's the real problem. Joe Paterno created an institution. He created a legacy. He created a huge sports empire at Penn State, one that had his personal stamp for 45 years. It made huge amounts of money, got tons of alumni endowments, created a library, and was a nationally recognized power in college football.

And that institution that he created was responsible for covering up the rape of a child. That institution was responsible for allowing this to happen on his campus. It's not the athletic director or the president at that point - this is Joe Paterno. This is the man who has been able to fight retirement for multiple years because of all the power he has, even though he's not even doing anything useful. He has the real power and prestige, and ultimately the responsibility for the attitude, the actions, and the results resides with him. He created it.

On some level this bothers me for all of sports. This is what we encourage - winning at all costs, turning a blind eye, allowing people to get away with things and given a second chance because they can succeed. This isn't just limited to Penn State; it's just the most egregious example in recent times, and it's probably the most tragic because something could have been done to stop this.

[BLU-RAY]

Pretty much. Like, I went to Stanford, and we were 1-11 my 2nd year there; a good academic school with a terrible football program. Jim Harbaugh came in, turned the program around, and within two years was the most instantly-recognizable and beloved figure on the campus. Football is something the whole school can rally around; I remember Dr. Andrew Fire and at least one other professor won Nobel Prizes around that time, but how many people on a campus understand double-stranded RNA gene regulation? Not all that many. It doesn't create the kind of communal spirit, both on-campus and amongst the various alumni bases, that football does; since graduating, some of the most fun I've had has been at alumni football-watching gatherings. This probably wouldn't be the case if the football team still sucked.

All that said, Paterno has got to go. Part of the bargain involved in the coach being the most powerful person on campus (and Harbaugh was never that, though he may have been the most popular) is that he runs the program in such a way that this kind of thing will never happen. The entirety of PSU is associated with Paterno, and so now Paterno and this scandal are synonymous. Screw him. He could have stopped it.

ETA: In response to Cyrano and Greywolf. Pretty much agree with Kal.

[Tears of Lys]

Let us all make a pact, boarders: If any of us is alerted to the fact that a grown man was assfucking a 10 year-old (of any sex) so hard that the sound of flesh slapping against flesh is loud enough to be heard over the sound of a running shower several rooms away, we solemnly swear to report it to the police at the first opportunity and not first to our dad or boss or dad's boss, unless that person is also a police officer.

I think that sounds reasonable.

And if reporting it doesn't get some kind of response, FOLLOW UP.

[TerraPrime]

Re: Yag

Let us all make a pact, boarders: If any of us is alerted to the fact that a grown man was assfucking a 10 year-old (of any sex) so hard that the sound of flesh slapping against flesh is loud enough to be heard over the sound of a running shower several rooms away, we solemnly swear to report it to the police at the first opportunity and not first to our dad or boss or dad's boss, unless that person is also a police officer.

I do solemnly pledge.

Re: Cyrano

But the prioritization by colleges is still f-ed up. Building new stadiums while scientists struggle for lab space, equipment etc....closing down parking on campus while a game is in progress... somehow the original ideals of a university seem to have become distorted.

For many of the bigger campuses, the issue is that college athletics become a revenue stream for the school. That's where things become distorted. On smaller campuses, or for sports that don't draw the kind of dollars that football does (and basketball for some), the distortion is much less apparent, if there is any at all.

But my perspective is that the priority in these big campuses reflects only the priority of society at large. I've made this point several times, and that is that the general populace is more entertained by watching sports than they are about reading up on the recent scientific breakthroughs. We venerate sports stars, awarding them with multi-million dollar contracts and sponsorship deals.

There is one off-set, which is that the tax money goes to support scientific researches, and not to support sports teams. It's a bit of cold comfort, since I'd wager a cup of good coffee that the revenue for (MLB + NFL + NHL + NBA + NASCAAR) >> budget for (NIH + NSF + USDA* + DoE* + NASA* + NOAA*).

* The research programs under each of these agencies, not the over all budget.

If the guy is hanging around as a "coach emeritus" with an office in the facility, etc, it's because Paterno was cool with him being here. It's not like JoePa has to get up and ask "Why is this guy still here?" It's not like the decision as to whether or not to keep him around was made independent of Paterno.

Just so.

You think Sandusky would even have a parking spot on campus if JoPa doesn't need/want him around? Sandusky worked directly under him, after all. It's not like JoPa doesn't run into Sandusky on a daily basis and so have to wonder whatever happened to him.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Sandusky isn't just "some guy" ... he was Paterno's heir apparent and right hand man for, what, 25 years? If the guy is hanging around as a "coach emeritus" with an office in the facility, etc, it's because Paterno was cool with him being here. It's not like JoePa has to get up and ask "Why is this guy still here?" It's not like the decision as to whether or not to keep him around was made independent of Paterno.

I agree with that. The only thing that I wasn't aware of was the detail provided to Paterno by the GA. The version I heard yesterday was that the GA came to Paterno, said he'd witnessed something disturbing because a kid and the coach, and was upset, but no details.

[Eponine]

The GA - who was 28 at the time and a football player prior to that - told a grand jury that he witnessed Jerry Sandusky anally raping a 10-year old child. He told the grand jury that he actually made eye contact with both Sandusky and the victim. And he left immediately, called his father (who advised him to leave; another detail was that his father was friends with Sandusky), and then the next day they decided to bring this information to Paterno.

What investigation would need to be taken for that to be 'taken care of'? This isn't some odd innuendo that the GA heard. This was him witnessing a felony, a rape of a child. And his thought process wasn't 'let's call the police' or 'let me intervene', it was 'how do I handle this so that Penn State is okay?'

I had not followed the details of the case and didn't know that he went to his father or that they didn't report it until the next day. I was thinking more along the lines that if for whatever bad reason, he had left the locker room, having the first thought to go tell his coach/supervisor Paterno would be a normal first instinct for someone who was used to viewing Paterno as the immediate authority in his life. As far as the situation to be taken care of, it would be the university administration having Sandusky removed and turning him into the police. Like I said, obviously calling the police first and immediately is the right thing to do - but it also would have made sense for a GA to immediately go tell his coach. Since in this situation, he didn't do anything immediately and let his father tell him to leave the situation, that's different than what I had thought happened.

[Swordfish]

Sandusky isn't just "some guy" ... he was Paterno's heir apparent and right hand man for, what, 25 years? If the guy is hanging around as a "coach emeritus" with an office in the facility, etc, it's because Paterno was cool with him being here. It's not like JoePa has to get up and ask "Why is this guy still here?" It's not like the decision as to whether or not to keep him around was made independent of Paterno.

Yep.

We will probably never know for sure, but it certainly seems likely that at best he simply turned a blind eye, and at worst, he actively participated in the cover up.

There is simply no way that he wasn;t involved in discussions about this. Again, the guy is a complete egomaniac. The ONLY thing he has cared about for the last 15 years or so is that win total.

Given the power that he has at the university, and the close and long standing relationship the two coaches had, to suggest that he simply reported this issue up the chain and then forgot about it is highly dubious. At best.

I agree with that. The only thing that I wasn't aware of was the detail provided to Paterno by the GA. The version I heard yesterday was that the GA came to Paterno, said he'd witnessed something disturbing because a kid and the coach, and was upset, but no details.

Again, this was Joe's right hand man and heir apparent for 25 years.

Does it really seem plausible to you that he didn't know the details, whether he heard them from the GA directly or not?

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Yep.

We will probably never know for sure, but it certainly seems likely that at best he simply turned a blind eye, and at worst, he actively participated in the cover up.

There is simply no way that he wasn;t involved in discussions about this. Again, the guy is a complete egomaniac. The ONLY thing he has cared about for the last 15 years or so is that win total.

Given the power that he has at the university, and the close and long standing relationship the two coaches had, to suggest that he simply reported this issue up the chain and then forgot about it is highly dubious. At best.

Again, this was Joe's right hand man and heir apparent for 25 years.

Does it really seem plausible to you that he didn't know the details, whether he heard them from the GA directly or not?

I honestly don't know. I don't know what the GA told him, and I don't know what the Administration told him. It is certainly possible that he deliberately kept himself in the dark, and the admnistration didn't give him any of the details, precisely so that he wouldn't be involved. That may be possible only because the guy was no longer a coach working for Paterno at the time of this incident. He'd retired from coaching in 1999, three years before this incident, so that's why Paterno said he'd passed it up to the AD -- because the guy no longer worked for Paterno.

That being said, I think he certainly was at fault for not following up to find out in any case, and it was irresponsible not to ask and find out. The only slack I will cut him is that he didn't just bury the complaint, and that it have been reasonable for him to assume that the school would have reported any criminal activity to the police.

[Reny of Storms End]

I dont understand how a college football coach can be the most powerful man on campus, or indeed the state (the latter may be a little bit of hyperbole). Actually I do understand, a lot has to do with endowments by alumni, popularity of one school over another etc etc. But the prioritization by colleges is still f-ed up. Building new stadiums while scientists struggle for lab space, equipment etc....closing down parking on campus while a game is in progress... somehow the original ideals of a university seem to have become distorted.

The latter is more than a bit of hyperbole. For anyone who isn't a PS alum, he has become a running joke in the last couple of years.

This whole situation is truly disgusting. That GA should be ashamed of himself. You physically witness the anal raping of a minor, and don't do anything but tell a football coach? If it wasn't so disgusting you would think it was a bad joke.

[Swordfish]

I honestly don't know. I don't know what the GA told him, and I don't know what the Administration told him. It is certainly possible that he deliberately kept himself in the dark, and the admnistration didn't give him any of the details, precisely so that he wouldn't be involved.

That being said, I think he certainly was at fault for not following up to find out in any case. If the guy was demoted, then Paterno had to know that there was something there, and it was irresponsible not to ask and find out. The only slack I will cut him is that he didn't just bury the complaint, and that it have been reasonable for him to assume that the school would have reported any criminal activity to the police. But he should have done more than just nothing after the coach was demoted, even if he wasn't told the details.

Again, that coach doesn't get demoted except by JoePa's permission.

i think you're being deliberately obtuse here.

Paterno is arguably the most powerful guy at the university. the decision to discipline Sandusky doesn't happen without briefing him on it. Period.

And we DO know what the GA told him. So i don't know why you are back to acting like we don't.

[litechick]

Is this typical of the 'Man Rules' that men share a tacit agreement not to interfere in another man's sexual proclivities and tastes? I mean, if a man catches another man masturbating, he will probably turn the other way and not mention it. If a man finds out about another man's taste for bondage or tentacle porn or whatever, ignoring that might be the thing to do as a sign of respect between men.

If selective blindness is normal, I guess it might extend so far as to politely ignore the rape going on in the shower.

Otherwise, I am having an utter failure of comprehension. How do you look into the kid's eyes and then walk away? Shouldn't stopping the rape be the absolute first priority before even notifying the authorities?

What did that guy see in the kid's eyes? Was he in panic, pain and terror or had it happened so many times that he had learned to dissociate? How did that feel to make eye contact with a potential rescuer only to have that person turn away?

I think that's the worst part--the failure of rescue.

[Kalbear]

Otherwise, I am having an utter failure of comprehension. How do you look into the kid's eyes and then walk away? Shouldn't stopping the rape be the absolute first priority before even notifying the authorities?

Right. This happened because of the institution. This graduate assistant, who had played ball there, who had dreams of coaching there at some point (and ended up being the WR coach and person who calls offense plays on Saturdays on the sidelines) saw this happening. Saw his dad's friend anally raping a child. And because this isn't just some guy, because he's a Big Guy On Campus and one of the most powerful people around and because it could hurt Penn State - he didn't know what to do.

Think about that. The compulsion to help the institution was so great that when faced with a 10-year old boy being raped right in front of you you turn away. Think about that power.

That's the power that JoePa wields on that campus. Right there.

I honestly don't know. I don't know what the GA told him, and I don't know what the Administration told him. It is certainly possible that he deliberately kept himself in the dark, and the admnistration didn't give him any of the details, precisely so that he wouldn't be involved.

Again, Sandusky was let go in 1999 because of allegations of child abuse. So going to JoePa and telling him that he saw something disturbing or horrilble or anything should be a big deal because it wasn't the first time it had been reported. This was the second time that JoePa had personally heard this type of information. And his choice was to essentially ignore it. His choice was that Sandusky shouldn't bring kids to that campus, because if Sandusky was going to rape kids he needed to do it on a satellite campus.

The motto at Penn State is "We are Penn State". That's what JoePa chanted to his supporters last night. You know who Penn State is? An organization that is willing to allow a child rapist to be free for 10 years so that they can have an illusion of propriety and honor.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Yagathai,

I can and do take up your pledge.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Again, that coach doesn't get demoted except by JoePa's permission.

My understanding is that the coach retired in 1999 -- three years before this incident.

i think you're being deliberately obtuse here.

Well, you're wrong.

Paterno is arguably the most powerful guy at the university. the decision to discipline Sandusky doesn't happen without briefing him on it. Period.

I know, I get that. Paterno essentially has as much authority as he wanted there. My point is that this may have been something on which he deliberately avoided exercising authority outside his direct jurisdiction as head coach. In other words, JP reports it, and then they come back to him:

Administration: "Joe, we've finished our investigation and decided we're going to remove him from the position he has within the AD."

JP: "He doesn't work for me anymore, so you make the decision, I don't need to know about it."

Does that excuse him? No, not to me. But it does mean he may not have known the details after the fact through deliberate ignorance. He didn't know the details because he didn't want to know the details.

And we DO know what the GA told him. So i don't know why you are back to acting like we don't.

No, we know what the GA says he told him, and we have Paterno's statement from yesterday saying that he was not given those details by the GA. I still think Paterno's deliberate indifference to this, which is the minimum of which he is guilty, is enough to boot his ass. So I'm not sure why you keep acting like I'm excusing him.

[Chirios]

Is this typical of the 'Man Rules' that men share a tacit agreement not to interfere in another man's sexual proclivities and tastes? I mean, if a man catches another man masturbating, he will probably turn the other way and not mention it. If a man finds out about another man's taste for bondage or tentacle porn or whatever, ignoring that might be the thing to do as a sign of respect between men.

As a man, that might be true, but no man that I know of would knowingly ignore the rape of a child.

The GA is a coward, the paedophile is a sick f*ck, but it takes a special kind of evil to bury this kind of information.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Again, Sandusky was let go in 1999 because of allegations of child abuse. So going to JoePa and telling him that he saw something disturbing or horrilble or anything should be a big deal because it wasn't the first time it had been reported. This was the second time that JoePa had personally heard this type of information.

Okay, that's something I didn't know. Do we know that he knew of this in 1999 as well as the 2002 incident?

[Ken Stone]

Is this typical of the 'Man Rules' that men share a tacit agreement not to interfere in another man's sexual proclivities and tastes? I mean, if a man catches another man masturbating, he will probably turn the other way and not mention it. If a man finds out about another man's taste for bondage or tentacle porn or whatever, ignoring that might be the thing to do as a sign of respect between men.

I'm not sure that is part of the man code. If you catch your buddy beating off you are more likely to tell everyone, then keep it a solemn secret. If they have weird kinks you flip them shit, not ignore them as a sign of respect. If they rape children the man code dictates you tell the police, I think.