Brought to you by P Manning NFL: Super Bowl Edition Redux

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

I had to wait like 5 hours before quoting this just to ensure it wasn't being said sarcastically. And I'm still not 100% on that.

But SEE!!!! We don't suck that bad!

No, that was totally sincere. You guys on this thread are a class act. I have to say that this has been far and away my favorite NFL thread on any messageboard that I populate. You guys are da schnizz!

[Ku.]

Cheerleading for the winning sports corporation doesn't make you a winner by extension. What a big silly.

[Lord O' Bones]

No, that was totally sincere. You guys on this thread are a class act. I have to say that this has been far and away my favorite NFL thread on any messageboard that I populate. You guys are da schnizz!

This is why I act like a total jackass when people come here and post like they are on youtube. This place is golden.

The other times I act like a jackass are because I'm kind of a jackass.

Cheerleading for the winning sports corporation doesn't make you a winner by extension. What a big silly.

Huh?

[awesome possum]

And Possum, he's only a GM in name, not in power. So it's kinda hard to talk about him. Yet.

I think he has the power. If he were just a Yes Man, would he have fired Tim Ruskell the same day he was hired?

I think McCaskey - like quite a few owners - want to emulate what the Patriots have done, that's why their search came down to Emery, who worked with Pioli in KC and someone else from the Belichick tree in Atlanta, and Licht, who is still part of said tree. Emery has familiarity with Bears, and apparently came to his interview with a detailed five-year-plan that included mulitple championships specifically for the Bears organization as it stands right now.

Why can't Lovie Smith be a good enough coach to get to a Superbowl and still be unable to win it? Something else he's proven.

Because a Super Bowl is still just a game unless you're going up against a juggernaut of a team. When the Bears were rolling during their winning streak, did you honestly think there was a team in the NFL they couldn't at least compete with?

Look, despite allegations that the radio dictates my thoughts on Lovie Smith, (it doesn't by the way), I still see a good coach who will never be able to take the next step to become one of the great coaches. Someone who does not evaluate talent very well, does not surround himself with enough good coaching talent to support him on either side of the ball, who cannot find it in himself to adjust his outdated mode of thinking in what makes football teams tick while the rest of the division and the NFL in general is passing him by, a coach who refuses to accept the realities in front of him and own up to mistakes and talk about what he's going to do to correct past mistakes.

I just don't agree with some of these. I'll get into those in a second, but first the radio accusation. I only bring it up because that (and a couple of the jagoffs who write for the Tribune and Sun Times) are the only places I've heard the ridiculous notion that Lovie is some kind of secret dictator in Chicago. The last three reasons - realities, mistakes and talking - sound like they're straight from a Steve Rosenbloom article or B&B transcripts.

Yes, Virginia and her boys like him, because he's a good guy in addition to being a good coach. But that doesn't mean he's running the show; no more than any coach who has been installed as long as he has, anyway.

Now onto the other critiques:

Lovie does have his misses on evaluating talent, but what coach doesn't? He's also had some pretty good hits.

Lovie has made some mistakes (Bob Babich), but I don't see a huge problem with the coaches around him on the defensive side. Daryl Drake's continuing employment is puzzling, when he hasn't helped our receiving group look like anything but subpar during the 6 or 8 years he's been here. But I blame a bit of the coaching situation on Chicago fans and their perpetual need to grab a pitchfork and start calling for heads as soon as something doesn't go as expected.

What outdated mode of thinking? You realize that the Cover Two is used by every team in the league throughout the course of a season and even throughout the course of a game? And that the Bears only run the Cover Two about 40-60% of the time?

The NFL is passing him by? His team was one game away from the Super Bowl last year. This year they were two injuries away from rolling to the playoffs again. Lack of depth killed them after Cutler and Forte went down, not lack of coaching.

He's good. He'll never be great. Chicago deserves great. I don't know if that coach is out there right now, but it would have been nice to have cut ties with Lovie when Jerry went and then tried to see what Bill Cowher was doing...

Lovie Smith has been the third most successful coach in Bears history. There's Papa Bear, Ditka, and Lovie. I think he can and will help the Bears win the Super Bowl. I am ridiculously optimistic about this upcoming season.

Yes, I realize this will likely result in a ridiculous amount of disappointment.

Ha, you'll take Manningham at record-setting salary over Roy Williams. And you'll fucking like it.

Not a chance anymore. I'll take Robert Meachem and Michael Floyd instead.

[Sivin]

Not a chance anymore. I'll take Robert Meachem and Michael Floyd instead.

I don't know how I'll be watching football games next season. But if the Bears manage to add 2 actual recievers on the outside, I'll move mountains to watch their games.

[Fez]

Steelers hire Haley

http://espn.go.com/n...dd-haley-new-oc

Funnily enough I just went back and checked and it appears Sports Illustrated has edited out the section of today's MMQB where Peter King claimed that this was merely a courtesy interview and that Haley would probably never get another NFL job because of his temper and paranoia. Way to own up for your writing.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Funnily enough I just went back and checked and it appears Sports Illustrated has edited out the section of today's MMQB where Peter King claimed that this was merely a courtesy interview and that Haley would probably never get another NFL job because of his temper and paranoia. Way to own up for your writing.

Further proof that Peter King is a talentless hack. :D

[Jaime L]

You know what, Trebs? I've never disliked the Giants, but my brother's constant "taking things up to an 11" has made me a non-fan.

Small solace I know but just keep in mind that karma's going to fuck him. The Football Gods just can't abide by douchebaggery. Just look at Antrel Rolle deciding the Redskins would be the one team he'd shit upon before each game. As a result, the Giants were the one team the Redskins owned this year. Doesn't make a lick of sense but that's how the game works. Respect begets respect. And douchebaggery begets wrath. Has happened so often such that if you're not a little superstitious you're not paying attention.

As a fan, your only job is to not be a dick. But some people still don't get that.

I'm not going to inflate my post further by actually quoting you. But I felt that more than just a "like" button was necessary to convey my appreciation for your post.

Appreciate the kind words, man.

[Mack Kilimaro]

Funnily enough I just went back and checked and it appears Sports Illustrated has edited out the section of today's MMQB where Peter King claimed that this was merely a courtesy interview and that Haley would probably never get another NFL job because of his temper and paranoia. Way to own up for your writing.

You would think somebody who's been writing about sports for a long time would be able to shrug off being wrong. I mean, it's a ritual every preseason to make predictions, most all of which turn out to be wrong. Then again, I guess it also takes a certain level of ego to be a prominent national sportswriter, and that ego means an incorrect statement proven wrong by events later in the same day has to be scrubbed.

Unimpressed! Maybe his Starbucks coffee will make him feel better.

[Jaxom 1974]

Because what you are saying here is that Lovie Smith can't coach a team to win one football game. If you think he is good enough to get to the Superbowl, then by that very nature, he is good enough to win big games aginst very good teams. That is what it takes to win a Superbowl. Is your argument that he can only get to the Superbowl, and then he forgets everything and becomes an idiot?

What I've attempted to say, obviously poorly, is that Lovie is certainly good enough to coach his way to the Superbowl. It's my contention that he's not capable of finishing the job.

I can understand your frustration,but the facts remain that Lovie knows how to coach football. Just remember, the Giants fans were saying the exact smae thing about Tom Coghlin about 7 weeks ago.

Lovie Smith is no Tom Coughlin.

I think he has the power. If he were just a Yes Man, would he have fired Tim Ruskell the same day he was hired?

He has some power. Ruskell was probably a bone thrown him since he can't fire the coach. If you can't fire the coach, you're not really a true General Manager. I'm willing to give the guy the benefit of the doubt for now though. I want to see how he drafts this year to see for sure where his power lines lie. He may be a diamond in the rough and not just the Bears half assing the job again.

I think McCaskey - like quite a few owners - want to emulate what the Patriots have done, that's why their search came down to Emery, who worked with Pioli in KC and someone else from the Belichick tree in Atlanta, and Licht, who is still part of said tree. Emery has familiarity with Bears, and apparently came to his interview with a detailed five-year-plan that included mulitple championships specifically for the Bears organization as it stands right now.

I just don't agree with some of these. I'll get into those in a second, but first the radio accusation. I only bring it up because that (and a couple of the jagoffs who write for the Tribune and Sun Times) are the only places I've heard the ridiculous notion that Lovie is some kind of secret dictator in Chicago. The last three reasons - realities, mistakes and talking - sound like they're straight from a Steve Rosenbloom article or B&B transcripts.

You forgot Steve Kaplan is pretty anti-Lovie at this point too... :P

And B&B are actually not out for Lovie's head, they follow more along the lines of, "If you're going to jettison Jerry, don't you have to launch Lovie too?" camp...but I digress...

Lovie has made some mistakes (Bob Babich), but I don't see a huge problem with the coaches around him on the defensive side. Daryl Drake's continuing employment is puzzling, when he hasn't helped our receiving group look like anything but subpar during the 6 or 8 years he's been here. But I blame a bit of the coaching situation on Chicago fans and their perpetual need to grab a pitchfork and start calling for heads as soon as something doesn't go as expected.

Lovie's on his fourth OC? Fifth? It's hard to keep track. And he's on his fourth DC too, I believe. And one of those was the year he spent as the DC, from which he fired himself and hired Marinelli.

What outdated mode of thinking? You realize that the Cover Two is used by every team in the league throughout the course of a season and even throughout the course of a game? And that the Bears only run the Cover Two about 40-60% of the time?

"Get off the bus running.", Trading Greg Olsen at Martz's behest. It's a passing league now. and having a RB like Forte should be even more of an assest if the team was prepared to throw the ball more. Here's hoping for a good WR finally.

[awesome possum]

Lovie's on his fourth OC? Fifth? It's hard to keep track. And he's on his fourth DC too, I believe. And one of those was the year he spent as the DC, from which he fired himself and hired Marinelli.

The biggest mistake of the Lovie era was basically firing Ron Rivera for Babich after the defense won it's way to the Super Bowl. And Lovie failed too, but that was also the year Urlacher got injured in the first half of the first game of the season, wasn't it (it may have been the season after)? Regardless, I point to the "talent" on the D-line and secondary - the two positions Angelo drafted at and failed at the most. At least one free agent comes to mind who's on Lovie, as I'm sure he had a say in signing Archuleta's corpse in 07.

But for the most part I think it was inferior drafting. Angelo kept getting guys who knew and could play the scheme well - at a college level. Doesn't matter if you know the scheme if you can't compete at the NFL level, and that was the problem for a lot of his picks.

"Get off the bus running.", Trading Greg Olsen at Martz's behest. It's a passing league now. and having a RB like Forte should be even more of an assest if the team was prepared to throw the ball more.

This statement is all sorts of contradictory. They traded Olsen at Martz's behest, because Martz is a pass heavy OC they brought to Chicago to help Cutler and the passing game. Yes, Martz was stubborn and kind of stupid to refuse to adapt for Olsen, but the Martz hire was stupid in general. I've read that Lovie was actually against the Martz hire, and wanted to keep Ron Turner (that's a real Turd vs. Giant Douche dilemma) but the pitchforks were out and Turner was goated.

Forte was the team's leading receiver in terms of receptions.

Here's hoping for a good WR finally.

Yes, please! As I mentioned earlier, ideally I'd like Meachem in free agency and Floyd in the draft, with Knox, Hester and Sanzenbacher behind them. But I'd also be happy with just one big guy, a Vincent Jackson, Marques Colston, or especially Dwayne Bowe and then Williams/Knox, Hester and Sanzenbacher.

I'll be happy with anyone who makes more highlight reels than blooper reels.

[The Dude]

Yes, please! As I mentioned earlier, ideally I'd like Meachem in free agency and Floyd in the draft, with Knox, Hester and Sanzenbacher behind them. But I'd also be happy with just one big guy, a Vincent Jackson, Marques Colston, or especially Dwayne Bowe and then Williams/Knox, Hester and Sanzenbacher.

I'll be happy with anyone who makes more highlight reels than blooper reels.

I assume Bennett will still be around (he did sign a nice contract), and I would certainly keep him over Williams, Knox, Hester or Sanzenbacher. I have a feeling Cutler agrees with me, but it will ultimately only matter if they pickup a free agent as you've said. Even better if they draft big, too. That's probably asking too much though

[Kalbear]

Before this Lovie Smith thing goes crazy, remember this:

Barry Switzer won a superbowl.

That being said, unless the GM of the Bears is seriously awesome at drafting Lovie Smith isn't going to get there because his talent evaluation is asstastic on the offensive side of the ball and he doesn't have the Urlacher 2.0 ready to go.

[Howdyphillip]

Barry Switzer won a superbowl.

He would have won two if Dion Sanders hadn't interfered with Michael Irvin in the '94 NFC championship game which I think is the greatest NFL game ever played even though my beloved Cowboys lost. He also has NCAA championships, so he isn't the worst coach to win a Superbowl.

[Bronn Stone]

He would have won two if Dion Sanders hadn't interfered with Michael Irvin in the '94 NFC championship game which I think is the greatest NFL game ever played even though my beloved Cowboys lost. He also has NCAA championships, so he isn't the worst coach to win a Superbowl.

All it takes to win at late-80's era Oklahoma is a willingness to disregard felonies by players (if you can keep them out of the press) and a willingness to tape large piles of small bills in places that players' families know where to look. Winning the NCAA has no bearing on coaching ability.

[Kalbear]

That's a good question. Who is the worst coach to win a superbowl? The list I would think is surprisingly short. I'll just go with teams with 1 superbowl win; it's a bit easier.

Ditka? Possible. A lot of his success was entirely because of Buddy Ryan. He certainly looked like ass in NO.

Gruden? Maybe. He had zero success after that first year, similar to Switzer.

Hank Stram? No, he was pretty good.

Vermeil? Definitely better than Gruden.

McCafferty? This might be a good one. Rode on the coattails of Shula, won a superbowl on his first year and then got fired two years later for refusing to bench a very aging Unitas. He died shortly after coaching the Detroit Lions, which is both sad and oddly fitting.

Switzer we all know and love. Though he did have a 5-2 playoff record and the team got to the playoffs 3 of the 4 years he coached.

Weeb Ewbank? Probably not; won two different championships with three different teams.

Billick's another possibility. What did he do outside of that superbowl win? He did okay with the Ravens but nothing amazing.

I think that it's a tossup between Ditka and McCafferty, but I"m going to go with McCafferty because hey, I'm a Bears fan.

[awesome possum]

I assume Bennett will still be around (he did sign a nice contract), and I would certainly keep him over Williams, Knox, Hester or Sanzenbacher. I have a feeling Cutler agrees with me, but it will ultimately only matter if they pickup a free agent as you've said. Even better if they draft big, too. That's probably asking too much though

I knew I was forgetting someone! Yes, Earl has a spot in the WR rotation no matter what.

That being said, unless the GM of the Bears is seriously awesome at drafting Lovie Smith isn't going to get there because his talent evaluation is asstastic on the offensive side of the ball and he doesn't have the Urlacher 2.0 ready to go.

Doesn't matter if Urlacher 2.0 is ready to go when Urlacher 1.0 is still playing at a high level and should for a few more years.

And it doesn't matter how Lovie's talent evalutation is on the offensive side of the ball, since he doesn't run the offense. Where does this idea come from, anyway? The "Rex is our quarterback" nonsense from 5 years ago?

The offense is just missing one key piece at WR and it can be a top 10-unit, and if the defense plays close to the level it's played the last two seasons, why wouldn't the Bears have as much a shot as any other team? The window is definitely closing for Peppers, Urlacher, Briggs, and Tillmann, but with the window is opening for the offense. The next two seasons both windows will still be open, and barring more catastrophic injuries, I don't see how they fail to make a run at the playoffs. And as the Giants have shown twice in four years, once you're in the playoffs, anything can happen.

[Rockroi]

Worst coach to ever woin a Superbowl...

Ditka? Possible. A lot of his success was entirely because of Buddy Ryan. He certainly looked like ass in NO.

Its not just that he had success with Ryan (Ryan never had much after he left Ditka, btw), it was that he was a coach for so long afterwards and never enjoyed any success of any kind. I think the Bears made it to the playoffs once after 1985 under Ditka. In New Orleans he not only was a terrible head coach (he looked old, slow, sad and out of touch), but he also traded away his entire draft board for Ricky Williams. Well done.

Gruden? Maybe. He had zero success after that first year, similar to Switzer.

Very true. However, he was actually a very good coach while with the Raiders (was one completely correct officating call away from advancing in 2001), and he did a lot with that defense down in Tampa. I actually think Gruden is very similar to Dungee, a coach that did not make your list. Dungee won one with Indy, but he had tremendous success with his prior team, the Bucs; in face Dungee's Bucs became Gruden's Bucs. Well, similraly, Gruden's Raiders went to the Superbowl the year AFTER he left.

Vermeil? Definitely better than Gruden.

Nah, he's solid. Vermeil obviously had a great deal of success with the Eagles in his first life as a head coach; not so much with the Chiefs in his third one. And if he had been the coach in 2001 my guess is he would have given the ball to Faulk more.

McCafferty? This might be a good one. Rode on the coattails of Shula, won a superbowl on his first year and then got fired two years later for refusing to bench a very aging Unitas. He died shortly after coaching the Detroit Lions, which is both sad and oddly fitting.

I don't know much about this guy, but he sounds relatively bad.

Switzer we all know and love. Though he did have a 5-2 playoff record and the team got to the playoffs 3 of the 4 years he coached.

I think Switzer is the immediate name that comes to mind because all of the peices fit- he was brought into the PERFECT situation on an immeansly talented team, did very, very little to improve the team, and then after the initial, residual success of the team his predesessor created, he proceeded to ruin the team completely and could never innovate any scheme or structure that could have recaptured that greatness. His collapse was far more noticeable than his success. And that success is seen as being that of Johnson. True or not, that team seemes to be coasting rather than Switzer doing anything to actually propell it.

Weeb Ewbank? Probably not; won two different championships with three different teams.

I would think not, given your description.

Billick's another possibility. What did he do outside of that superbowl win? He did okay with the Ravens but nothing amazing.

This right here may be the sleeper. For starters, Billicks reputation does not match his accomplishments; he is always touted as a great coach, even though he seemed to come up short many times. He also benefited from having a great amount of talent assembled, hardly any of which he was responsible for. He won one Superbowl and despite having a stable organization around him, could never repeat (in his defense, he was in the same division as the Steelers and the same conf as the Pats and Colts).

My money would be on McCaffery given your description. Both Ditka and Belick- say what you will about them -made the teams they made; McCaffery cannot (it would appear) say the same. Finally, Switzer had a very similar start to his pro coaching career as McCaffery, but his post Superbowl career seemed more accomplished than McCaffery. And - as lame as this sounds - I really like Barry Switzer because he has no filter at all and says whatever he is thinking. And that's refreshing.

[Young Wolf]

So I was browsing through my FB news feed...and I was kind of shocked to see some Brady hatred still going on. I don't get it anymore. If anyone has a right to hate Brady still, it would be I, a Raiders fan. The tuck rule game still ignites a small bit of anger, but I've come to accept Brady is a stud. I'd love the Raiders to have a QB like Brady.

Someone actually said this about Brady who was showing some emotion after losing the Super Bowl: "Oh boo hoo......intersting how his "skill" and "greatness" and "best in the league-ness" is all falling apart??? Sounds like karma to me, wouldn't ya say???" Wtf?

I can name, maybe, 3 teams who are genuinely happy with their QB situation and wouldnt swap their QB for Brady. Packers, Saints, and I guess Giants now? Borderline teams Chargers? Steelers? Niners?

It's actually become mind boggling to me that people won't accept that this guy is great.

[Whiskeyjack]

It's actually become mind boggling to me that people won't accept that this guy is great.

Most people are idiots.