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[Book Spoilers] EP 207 Discussion

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Something important to note, guys. Yes, killing your cousin is horrible. But, so is pushing children out windows. I think, because Bran lived, people are somehow forgetting what Jamie is capable of doing in the name of self-preservation. Is killing your cousin that much more lowdown than pushing a child to his death?

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I do wonder about Cat releasing Jaime before she learns about Bran and Rickon. I guess they are going on that she needs to get Jaime out of there because if he is beheaded Cersei will kill the girls.

I've always be rather anti-Jaime. I do think he's done some good things but his sins greatly outweigh his deeds. On killing Alton, I dunno that it's TOO out of character. In the books, before he loses his hand, he cared for no one but Cersei, Tyrion, and his father. He didn't give a fig when Cleos is killed, nor when Ser Stafford dies at Oxcross. Even after he loses his hand, he thinks to him Joffrey was nothing more than a "squirt of seed".

...blue balls and "squirt of seed", what you all must think of me. :P

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Why do people act like they know what Tywin was like behind closed doors. There is no Tywin POV. So, to sit here and say " this is totally not how he would act" is completely off base. All we know of Tywin is from other characters POV. The way he is treating Arya is how I imagined he would treat Cersei for years after I read her POV chapters.

And on the topic of Cersei, I'm pretty sure she isn't batshit crazy in the books till after Joffs death. Still a cold bitch, but not nuts. And her weeping for Joff being nuts isn't really too out of character.

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LOL! My mom told me that on Easter he said everybody had to be out of the house by 7:30 because he had to watch "Game of Kings". He's starting to know the names now though rather than just The Little Guy, The Tough Little Girl, The Gay King, The King with the Red Woman, Khalessi, and The Dirty Twins. :P

What does he call Theon?

I curse the savages that mess w/ his weekly viewing.*

*Shit. Did I just curse the rest of Trebla's family? That was certainly not the goal.

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Are we assuming Catelyn is freeing Jaimie? Isn't it more likely she is just going to cut off his hand first.

No. That'll happen when he and Brienne are recaptured in episode 10. I'm betting that, being perfectly-suited as a cliffhanger, it's the last thing that happens in his Season 2 character arc. Not sure who'll do the cutting, though, since Vargo Hoat is AWOL. Maybe just some random Bolton man during the fight to re-capture them.

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I don't know. The way she pullled that sword out. Didn't seem like she was freeing him. Cutting off his hand now would be an easy way to appease the karstarks in the shortterm. Also would make his freeing more platable.

Edited by House Snow

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hmmm lets see Lord Tywin, some infiltrator got into your inner sanctum and killed a trusted Lt with a poison dart

your cupbearer was taken out of a group of prisoners, is a lying overeducated northern noble child who by your own accounts is courageous

I know lets hang 20 of our own menand not not at the elephant giving us mutton

HBO is ruining IASOIAF

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I don't know. The way she pullled that sword out. Didn't seem like she was freeing him. Cutting off his hand now would be an easy way to appease the karstarks in the shortterm. Also would make his freeing more platable.

Except Cat would know that if she sent Jaime back minus a hand, she would receive her daughters back in similar condition! I do hope they don't make her THAT stupid.

Edited by Currawong

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Something important to note, guys. Yes, killing your cousin is horrible. But, so is pushing children out windows. I think, because Bran lived, people are somehow forgetting what Jamie is capable of doing in the name of self-preservation. Is killing your cousin that much more lowdown than pushing a child to his death?

Yes, thank you. Interested to read that an above poster thinks Jaime killing a distant cousin NOW makes him irredeemable. Killing the king he swore vows to protect didn't stain him. Having sex with his twin sister didn't do that. Helping her abort Robert's baby, the true born heir didn't do that. Throwing Bran out of a window didn't nor murdering Jory Cassell. Regicide, incest, murder, attempted murder are okay. Kinslaying, now. Oh Tyrion, you are now an eternal villain. ;)

Trisk: He calls him Theon now. He used to call him "Who the Hell is that?"

Edited by Trebla

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I enjoy the Arya-Tywin scenes, but am not sure I totally believe them. I actually bought Tywin being more familiar with a servant, on the theory that she's so far below him, he can just relax and open up with her. Don't entirely buy Tywin being familiar with a highly intelligent, Northern noble-born girl. Surely he'd be more suspicious of her and want to know exactly who she is. I don't know; maybe he thought he had time to catch her in more slip-ups and figure out who she was that way. (I think the making her eat bit was intended to see if she ate like a lady with utensils, as she did, or with her hands like a peasant.)

Tywin may also have been concerned about the possibility of poison in his food, knowing there was an assassin in the castle. Demanding that Arya eat the food could be a way to both check if it's poisoned, and if so, whether she was involved and/or aware of it. There have been many hints in the past few episodes that he's aware that she's not being truthful about her identity, and is probably a noble. I don't think he's aware that she's Arya Stark though, because I suspect Cersei has kept Arya's escape secret from him.

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There are just two major issues I have with the episode.

1) Catelyn should NOT release Jamie before she finds out about Bran and Rickon. The action of betraying Robb (which is what it is) only makes sense under the prism of her finding out about Bran and Rickon's death.

I've always had a bit of an issue with this line of thinking. True, learning the boys were "dead" served as a catalyst in the books, but can anyone really doubt that--if faced with the same situation--book Cat would have done the same thing? If Jaime dies, her girls die. Robb's lords might not value the girl's lives enough to free the Kingslayer, but you had better believe their mother does.

In the book, Karstark was away with Robb when she freed Jaime, not left behind to get drunk and stew about how pretty Jaime's head would look on a spike. She has to get him away from there and now. Makes perfect sense, if you think of it that way.

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Why are we worrying about Jon's arc? In the summary for episode 10 it says he has to prove himself to Quorin. In the ep. 8 preview, you can see Jon rolling down a hill, which makes me think he'll get away from the Wildlings and meet back up with Quorin. Rattleshirt will chase him down, and before he catches up to Jon and Quorin in episode 10, Quorin will tell him what has to be done, and it'll probably play out as it did in the books.

EDIT: After watching the ep. 8 preview again, it seems like Quorin is captured as well, as the Wildlings push Jon down in front of a captured Quorin. Should be interesting to see where it goes.

Edited by DragonAge93

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best episode yet!

-the only thing that threw me off at first was when they showed Bran and Rickon on the move, I'm hoping they hook back around and they end it with Bran's famous line "Winterfell is not dead, just broken. Like me..."

-Tywin/Arya exchange was great!

-Dany/Jorah exchange was great!

-Jon/Ygritte, even though they are getting a jump-start on their relationship out of sequence, was great!

...see this is the kind of dialog that should have been present all along, strong conversations and character development

-"You know nothing Jon Snow" yay! she said it!!!

-good to see them working in the Rickard Karstark angle, as we all know what that leads to...

-even though they've changed quite a bit about around Dany and Quarth, that ending was pretty good and it sure took me by surprise, it also goes to show how completely alien and morally corrupt the customs and grabs-for-power are in the East, that look of surprise and terror on Dany's face was priceless!

-2 dead little boys! awesome! still would have been better had they worked in the Reek angle but that is neither here nor there, the final scene was still pretty effective and that final look on Theon's face, as if to say "maybe this wasn't such a good idea"...haha

-and the best part of the episode....fucking Jamie! I think this show has been in dire need of Jamie's wit and humor, the character and his lines are written so well to begin with and the actor pulled it off with ease

-also did they mention Genna Lannister?? a bit different in the book but that was one of her sons there with Jamie right? good to see them going a bit deeper into the family lines, her part in AFFC is also entertaining as well

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Very mixed bag episode for myself as well, I loved the scenes with Jamie and Cat, and I also enjoyed the casting for Lord Kastark as he showed how headstrong and dead set he was for vengeance. But although I love the interactions between the actors Tywin Arya scenes are completely ridiculous this week in the context of the mysterious deaths that occured over the previous episodes. He should be far more paranoid and distrusting of all around him rather than be coy with Arya his cupbearer knowing she's of noble birth. This new mountain character has no presence whatsoever, much more enjoyed the passion brought to this character by previous Mountain.

Cersei basically admiitting that Joffrey is a monster is also absurd, she was beside herself after his death in a SOS, completely incosolable and refusing to even consider Tywins innocence. I'm not sure how Joff's death will now play next season but I guess we'll see. Also Jamie killing Alton after sharing life experiences really I think makes it harder to see Jamie as a redeemed character.

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why am I spoiled brat, I could post 10 things from this episode that make no sense, will make no sense or are just plain cliched and/or boring

a. why would tywin trust Arya

b. Why will the wildings accept Jon

c. Why will the NW allow Jon back in

d. how can 3 cat sized dragons do anything

e. why doesnt dany just buy a ship cause she only has like 20 people in her khal, why does she need a fleet of ships

f. why is someone going to Valeria

g. did jon just turn his cloak without orders? He is a deserter, and should have his heads cut off

h. WHy does cersei hate her own son? and why will she care when tyrion kills him supposedly

i. Why did LF go to a Usurpers camp with the bones of ned stark? did he somehow know cat was going to be there? if so how could he have know that

j. how did Theon lose Bran and hodor osha's trail?

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It is COMPLETELY WRONG for cersei to hate joffrey and express that to Tyrion.

...

I think Cersei is gaming Tyrion. She is being insincere, which shouldn't be a surprise. It seems to have worked given Tyrion's reaction at the end of the scene. Cersei is very clever; it's interesting how this scene is juxtaposed with Tywin's comparison of Arya to her.

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