Oberyn poisoned Tywin

[chrisdaw]

Oberyn would welcome their accusations. That's what he wants, to kill Tywin and all to know it but be unable to exact justice, the same pain he and Dorne have felt since Tywin ordered the murder of Elia and the children.

I say unable to exact justice because to simply arrest and execute a prince of Dorne is not diplomatically sound, they'd need to trial him, and he was confident he could defend himself in a trial by combat.

He wants to kill Tywin, wants them all to know it, and then to strut around free as a peacock and flaunt it in their faces. Unfortunately Tyrion (and the Mountain) ruined his plan, perhaps it's not the first time such a plan was ruined either, by Tyrion or others.

Tywin wouldn't go to Pycelle until the last possible moment because of pride. The theory also gives purpose to the existence and description of Widow's blood in the text.

[Vanilla Fire]

No way he poisoned Tywin when they broke bread together.

- This. I may be hazy on the timeline front, but if you're planning to take part in suicidal combat tommorrow you might as well take a slow-acting poison along with your victim today. The whole point of breaking bread is that you eat the same food, it's a gesture of trust. Unusual handling of the Viper's body would solidify my theory.

Besides, a master of poisons is also a master of antidotes. Poisoning yourself could be worth your while, if it only requires you to purge yourself the moment after.

[chrisdaw]

Was it the waif or somebody in this series who made themselves immune to poisons by poisoning themselves the tiniest amount each day for their whole life?

Or am I thinking of another series?

[James Arryn]

Was it the waif or somebody in this series who made themselves immune to poisons by poisoning themselves the tiniest amount each day for their whole life?

Or am I thinking of another series?

In history, Mithridates was said to have made himself immune to most poisons this way, if that helps. And, yeah...something at the edge of my consciousness involving a campfire about a character in something doing the same.

Holy crap, tried googling and the actual damn process of trying to render yourself immune is called Mithridatism. Years of study finally paid off!

[chrisdaw]

Ah it was real occurrence, no wonder I couldn't place the fantasy series I read it in.

[James Arryn]

Ah it was real occurrence, no wonder I couldn't place the fantasy series I read it in.

No, I knew the real life ref., but there's something niggling that recalls a more fictional version somewhere....can't place it, but as I said, a fire or campfire if somehow involved in my vague memory. In terms, I think, of the conversation about it.

I think it's 3rd party, too, as in A telling B about C having immunized themself.

Wait. Princess Bride.

And I also think something else.

[chrisdaw]

The Borgias touched on it.

[Vanilla Fire]

Was it the waif or somebody in this series who made themselves immune to poisons by poisoning themselves the tiniest amount each day for their whole life?

Or am I thinking of another series?

As much as I love the idea it has a substantial flaw - it requires a measure of divination, on the part of the Viper.There are many different poisons and for some specific reason he, assuming it was him, chose this specific one. Poetic justice of someone as stuck-up as Tywin Lannister drowning in their own waste must have been irresistible. Additionaly, it's maester-available, not an exotic Dornish concoction, which makes it less traceable. All things considered the proccess of immunization must have taken years, assuming incredible dedication on the Viper's part.

The problem with my antidote theory is availability - if Pycelle knows the poison, he can diagnose it's use and administer it readily. Therefore, either there is none in existence or it fails after too much time passes.

The most extreme option is self-sacrifice, accepting either a gory death, or a slow one with no antidote. It also lends more credence to the self-poisoning idea. If he believed it to be the only way to gain Tywin's trust, that would make himself a martyr in his own eyes, as much as fighting against the Mountain. This would also explain his 'foolish' bravado during the fight with Clegane. Such a manner of death would be less suspicious and still would have achieved his goal - the rising tension between Dorne and the Lannisters. He took nobody else to Court, as far as my memory serves, so that the suspicion and blame would fall on him only.

[chrisdaw]

I see no evidence to think he had any intention of dying. No-one doubts he is a master of poisons, one way or another I'm confident he could find a way to do what is proposed without killing himself.

[Net-Viper X]

I think you guys are reading too far into it, the truth is so simple its obvious.

The guy was in the privy in the middle of the night taking the worlds stinkiest shit, a shit so stinky that it permeated his very flesh and a week later he was still stinking from it. I only know one thing that can have that effect on someone, clearly some time earlier that day he ate at taco bell. A poison all its own!

[littleRickon]

with respect to Oberyn nailing his own coffin as everybody will suspect him if Tywin is poisoned: we don't know if he had any intention of staying around in KL for that long. He might have chosen to go back to Dorne the day after the trial victory over Clegane.

However, I much much prefer the theory that he intended to have it be known, win his own trial by combat, and basically shit in the face of the living Lannisters. Damn you, Gregor, for taking Oberyn out of the series!

[chrisdaw]

If being a Prince of Dorne and the Iron throne in no shape for another war is not enough, he also has the shield provided by Myrcella being in Dorne.

[Ibbison from Ibben]

But what about the bladder? Tywin is going to notice he can't take a leak long before a bit of constipation slows him down.

While on display, Tywin's body was leaking fluid at the joints in his armor (does that mean at the knees and elbows?) and his face was drying up and turning green. This suggests some sort of general necrosis, not so much an abdominal cavity rot. Despite the (overly?) convenient description of Widow's Blood, could this be caused by a different poison?

[angelodebo]

love it!!!

[TheGriffonReborn]

Holy shit. I buy it. Oberyn's such a badass.

[The BlackBear]

Holy shit. I buy it. Oberyn's such a badass.

[Bayard]

Was it the waif or somebody in this series who made themselves immune to poisons by poisoning themselves the tiniest amount each day for their whole life?

Or am I thinking of another series?

People in Thailand do it, I even saw a documentary where they used poison in their tattoos thinking that it would protect them from cobra venom. Thailand I think has the biggest snake population in the world.

[The BlackBear]

People in Thailand do it, I even saw a documentary where they used poison in their tattoos thinking that it would protect them from cobra venom. Thailand I think has the biggest snake population in the world.

There are theories Rasputin did it as well.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithridatism And it by no means works for all poisons, and if the dose is large enough it'll kill you anyway.

[bemused]

I like it. Very neat..the heat causing all that...yuck... always bothered me slightly..but not enough to arouse my suspicions before this.

[ShowOverBooks]

Very plausible, I like this theory

Smal Question: Is Tyrion still a kinslayer if we consider Tywin already death, if he was poisen he would die anyway

Of course. We ALL die eventually. If you remove the delay (however short it will be), it is murder.