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How would you rate episode 210?

How would you rate episode 210?  

930 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      18
    • 2
      14
    • 3
      23
    • 4
      32
    • 5
      49
    • 6
      72
    • 7
      115
    • 8
      199
    • 9
      238
    • 10
      165


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It took me a season and a half to stop whining and accept the budget/time/adaptation issues, but after this episode I guess I'm back to my old ways. Don't get me wrong, there are scenes I really enjoyed, and there are changes I understand and even like, but I cannot understand the changes and/or omissions that have nothing to do with budget or other excuses the writers gave us.

People already addressed some of them, but what I really cannot shut up about is Rob/Talissa story. If I had never read the books, I would've thought that Rob is a genuine douche. No Stark honor (because he dishonored a high born lady), no grief and pain about his 'dead' brothers, just hot girl-> boner-> let's get married! And I'm from the North, you're from Volantis, let's do it in the light of The Seven! :blink: :ack: :blink: I hope that we find out about Talissa's true (Westerling) identity in the next season, but i guess that ship has sailed (down the Royne with her almost drowned brother).

And: Why is the wight just staring at Sam, Why is Stannis throwing temper tantrums, Do nonreaders know why Jon killed QH and is 'Ros' DB's or DBW's girlfriend?

I'm on the edge about visions in the HotU, I did expect more, but I knew that some of them would be to obvious. Drogo and the baby were a gift to tv show fans, just like we (the readers) got Rains of Castamere in Blackwater, I guess, but still I think they could introduce some of the prophecies.

Gave it a 7.

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9.

Good finale, but I liked the one from S1 much better. This one seemed to lack a certain epicness.

Edited by Songlian

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Well, I really, really tried to watch the show and not think about the books.

I just watched it, like I watched the first season (I haven't read the series at that time). I saw how excited my non-book reader freinds were about this episode.

And I think it worked. It was really pleasant and liberating not to compare every single detail with the book.

So I gave it a 10.

This episode was not as spectacular as the previous one, but that also was not its purpose.

And I have to say, I'm really relieved that Alan Taylor is back on board as a director. Although Blackwater was one of the best episodes, it it safe to say for me at least, that Neil Marshall wasn't the right choice.

This episode felt complete, every storyline got his proper ending and the final scene made my blood freeze.

Those are pretty good reasons to be satisfied with the season's ending.

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I gave it a 5.

I know... a bit harsh! It was a good season, overall! But this episode for me was just a lackluster!

The house of the undying was when I first put together the whole L+R=J theory, that I later came to find out that it was pretty popular, when I joined this forum...

I know it's just a theory, but I came to accept it as almost truth, and I really wanted to see how the series was gonna deal with that...

Ignoring the whole passage was just a big disappointment.

Also, all of the ones loyal to Dany were betraying her or dying. I mean... it's interesting, but her life was already hard enough with the few friends she had!

Another thing was the burning of winterfell! That moment was hugely emotional for me. And in the series it was treated as "whatever". They burned the castle! Eh...

Other than that, the episode was nice! Jaqen was great! And so was Tyrion! And really, I just love Natalie Dormer!

And as for the splitting of the Stark kids, here's to hoping they'll introduce the Reeds next season to promote that! :cheers:

People seem to forget that unless they made them like "Twin Peaks" the HOTU visions would be incredibly spoiler-y. To the point of ruining some events in future seasons. People also forget I think the economy of a visual medium and how quicky they can introduce elements like John's parentage and make it exciting. In books, they have to hold our interest for a much much longer time, so things need to be implied and hinted at like GRRM does. Otherwise it would be pure exposition which always brings fantasy books to a screeching halt

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I think expecting the translation of a huge literary work to TV (or movie) to be completely faithful to the book is unrealistic. I think if one keeps that in mind and appreciates the work for 'what it is' rather than for 'what it should be' viewing is much more enjoyable overall. I find that many of the critics of the show are probably bitter because it seems they are doing a constant 'compare and contrast' in their heads, rather than just enjoying the show for its' entertainment factor. I give the episode a 9.

Yes, it would have been unrealistic to expect after a very successful first series to try to invest more money into it. It would have been really unrealistic to see the West burned by Robb, to see Riverrun. To see the Riverlands burning and to see the real horror of war. To see a bit of Storm`s End. To make people understand why Jon had to kill the Halfhand. It would have been unrealistic to show a circling eagle in the sky as they march and to show Ghost, just to get into the warg project. instead it`s realistic to show scenes about Jon and Ygritte talking about "knives" and "stones". It would have been unrealistic to see Robb as the strong king who beheads Karstark himself and marry a Westerling girl (as the Westerlings are bannermen of the Lannisters). Instead it was realistic to show him weak and with a who-knows-who-that-girl-was flirting and listening stories about how a slave saved her brother. Meh... It would have been unrealistic to show the prophecies in THoU, to show Rhaegar and the PWWP. To see the Undyings themselves and not just Pyat Pree (although i liked the scene when he walked into the destroyed throne room covered by snow and went over the wall). It would have been unrealistic to show the Bastard of Bolton and his tricks. It would have been unrealistic to Jaime not to kill Cleos Frey as a kinslayer is cursed by men and Gods (old and new) and it is the worst sin. As there could be future references to that. It would have been unrealistic to cook the Weasel soup and show the Brave Companions. And so on and on and on.

You see, I really tried to enjoy the show and at most part I could. I tried not to `compare and contrast`. I talked to people who didn`t read the books and they absolutely loved it. But when I started to ask questions if they understood why things happened in the way the did they were really not sure.

Maybe it`s my fault that I read the books three times and saw things differently in the show than i imagined them during reading and i wouldnt complain about that. But sorry, it can`t be my fault to NOT to see the things at all or see them completely twisted around. Im not talking about minor things. Im not talking about eye colours and make ups. Im talking about important plots (Bolton and Vargo Hoat, Westerlings and Tywin), main cities (Storm`s End, Riverrun) and main characters (Edmure Tully, Hoster Tully, Blackfish, Reeds, Bastard of Bolton, Big and Little Walders etc.) . I know HBO ordered only 10 episodes and they couldn`t show everything. But if they found time for showing us Renly and Loras in bed, Ygritte making jests about Jon`s man-needs, Tywin Lannister being the good fella and telling stories to a cupbearer then they could have been a bit `unrealistic` and show us a bit of the above things as well. Im very happy that so many people enjoyed the show but why should we who did not enjoyed it that much should shut our mouths and do not criticise it. People call us haters but we just feel sorry that a purely epic story was turned into an above the average TV show.

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I gave it an 8 (as I said) but if the Other's horse had its guts hanging out that would have been worth a whole point. The Other and the wights were just done very very well. Nothing like I imagine, but there's only so much one can do. In my imagination they are nowhere near as solid and with form as portrayed, but they only become partly noncorporeal in my imagination - in the book they are protrayed as quite solid!

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I didn't mind most of the changes they did in this season, I understand not everything can be kept as it should be, but this episode, for me, was the worst one of the season. I had so many expectations and it let me down.

Brienne, was awesome. I enjoyed that part, totally fitting of her character loyal to her oath until the bitter end if bitter has to be.

Robb... really? rebelling against his father's teachings? I don't buy that, they make it feel like his honor isn't worth anything, and we all know is not like that.

Tyrion was epic, as usual. Can't complain there. The audience at the Iron Throne was good. And I liked this Littlefinger version, who is brave enough to reveal some of his intentions to Sansa.

Dany... I don't know it it's just me, but I was so annoyed by her attitude this season, yelling at everyone, sometimes I just wished to skip her scenes. Also the house of the undying was kind or rushed and weak. The "Dracarys" part wasn't as awesome but still was good. Just give Dany some anger management for the next season please, she's acting like Viserys in my eyes.

Everything else, was good. I almost cried like a baby because of Luwin, Theon speech was awesome.

I give this a 7.

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I find it unacceptable, and frankly insulting, that Tywin's horse did not shit at the foot of the Iron Throne, instead taking his dump before entering the hall. Why change this defining moment? The infernal writers have now ruined the character arc of everyone in the Throne room. There are so many layers and, dare I say, foreshadowing, as well as HINDshadowing to this striking moment in the books, and yet, the diabolical D & D ruined the entire series with the premature poop. Why, I ask you? I still retained hope for this travesty of an adaptation but this, fellow book purists, THIS felt like molten gold being poured over my head! I fell to the floor, wailing, cursing the old gods and the new! Where was Joffrey, "gingerly" stepping around the dung? I feel betrayed and sickened.

Wow. Felt blasphemous writing that. That was an awesome episode and I gave it a 10.

Stop playing spot the difference. It's fantastic television.

So.....the first part of your post is funny. Touche' --who can't take a little ribbing?

But the complaints aren't always about "playing spot the difference" 'twixt book and TV show. I think (but could be wrong) that non-book readers are wondering why the Halfhand is so mad at Jon for not killing Ygritte and going AWOL to the point of being captured, that he wants to literally pick a fight with him here & now and kill him as a traitor. Because I'm wondering it myself. I kept thinking he was going to whisper to Jon about infiltrating the wildlings. (Did I miss this? I have to watch clips on YouTube this year.)

And, I'm sorry, but the Other looked like something out of the Jim Henson workshop. Why didn't it kill Sam, exactly? Is Sam toting around the bundle of dragonglass like some kind of Others kryptonite? (not that non-bookies would understand its significance yet, so that can't be it.... I guess he's too insignificant a threat to them, though that never stopped them from killing children.) Am I wrong? Did it not notice Sam behind the rock?

Didn't mind how the Shae & Tyrion relationship has shaped up; can't believe they wasted more time on Ros in this episode (WTF?) being enlisted by Varys --c'mon, wasted scene, people! It seems we will never be free of this invented persona, while other characters have been merged, eliminated, name-changed, etc. Maybe she ends up being the one to betray Tyrion later (?). And thank goodness he gets to keep his nose. Not even Rorge was missing a nose during his brief screen time.

I don't see the point of saving Ser Dontos earlier in the season because if he shows up in S3 non-book readers will, say, "Wait, tell me who that is again?"

Liked that little touch with Theon being driven to total exasperation by that damn horn (though the horn sounded so fake). But did I miss something between Theon being knocked unconscious and the burnt ruin? Aren't non-bookies wondering what exactly happened to the ironborn and which parties did the burning? (I know what a cliffhanger is, but this one seemed a bit of a gap.)

Certainly don't mind that Bran is being wheeled off in a cart instead of expecting poor Hodor to carry him on his back the whole damn way. . . . Don't mind that Luwin dies at the weirwood and Osha finishes him off actually. Not in the book is it?

I'm just not going to say, "Oh, I'm so grateful they're making this series at all that therefore every episode is the best they could do for television. 10 out of 10, perfect score."

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5, a mediocre finale of a mediocre season..

The only thing i liked in this season is scenery and armors/outfits of the cast.

In comparison to s1 this season was so shit its tragic.

Dannys acting while she was chained? - so bad (excluding the fact that the whole chaining stuff was terrible)

Dragons throwing flames like flamethrowers was silly..

Xaro all of the sudden being macho, instead of loving boys.

Danny taking over the city with an newly spawned army all of the sudden?

BOOK SPOILER THAT MANDON MOORE WAS CERSEI CATSPAW

Snowing in kings landing? Major spoiler.. either the winter came lol or jon is sitting on the throne - which is kinda the same.

Qorin "storyline", instead of beeing the most feared nightswatch guy

MEh.. could go on forever.. but cannot be arsed.

They better let 1 guy write stories for next season for more consistency.. this was shit.

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No more than 8 from me. Sack of Winterfell was just lame - what, no Ramsey? Or was he all of the second season secretly posing as Dagmer? Anyway, a very poor adaptation of the book event.

If you haven't read the books, how would you possibly comprehend Jon killing Qhorin? It's looks in the episode, as if he killed him for calling him a SOB and attacking him...

Dany burning Pyat Pree and entombing Xaro and Dorea (!) in a treasure vault? Ahhm, someone here misread the books - Xaro is as gay as Renly - why would he slip with Dorea at all?

And was the horse shit part being really necessary for the visualization of the story? Maybe to incline that whole of this season was FULL OT DUNG?

Now for a bit of positive observations (just a bit) - the dragons were really cute. I appreciate the Others design - now THAT was well done indeed! Arya/Jaquen part was good.

Overall - a very disappointing season. After the very high expectations I'd got from the first season - I expected the following one to be much more interesting, and not just a disappointing brutality contest.

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So.....the first part of your post is funny. Touche' --who can't take a little ribbing?

But the complaints aren't always about "playing spot the difference" 'twixt book and TV show. I think (but could be wrong) that non-book readers are wondering why the Halfhand is so mad at Jon for not killing Ygritte and going AWOL to the point of being captured, that he wants to literally pick a fight with him here & now and kill him as a traitor. Because I'm wondering it myself. I kept thinking he was going to whisper to Jon about infiltrating the wildlings. (Did I miss this? I have to watch clips on YouTube this year.)

And, I'm sorry, but the Other looked like something out of the Jim Henson workshop. Why didn't it kill Sam, exactly? Is Sam toting around the bundle of dragonglass like some kind of Others kryptonite? (not that non-bookies would understand its significance yet, so that can't be it.... I guess he's too insignificant a threat to them, though that never stopped them from killing children.) Am I wrong? Did it not notice Sam behind the rock?

Didn't mind how the Shae & Tyrion relationship has shaped up; can't believe they wasted more time on Ros in this episode (WTF?) being enlisted by Varys --c'mon, wasted scene, people! It seems we will never be free of this invented persona, while other characters have been merged, eliminated, name-changed, etc. Maybe she ends up being the one to betray Tyrion later (?). And thank goodness he gets to keep his nose. Not even Rorge was missing a nose during his brief screen time.

I don't see the point of saving Ser Dontos earlier in the season because if he shows up in S3 non-book readers will, say, "Wait, tell me who that is again?"

Liked that little touch with Theon being driven to total exasperation by that damn horn (though the horn sounded so fake). But did I miss something between Theon being knocked unconscious and the burnt ruin? Aren't non-bookies wondering what exactly happened to the ironborn and which parties did the burning? (I know what a cliffhanger is, but this one seemed a bit of a gap.)

Certainly don't mind that Bran is being wheeled off in a cart instead of expecting poor Hodor to carry him on his back the whole damn way. . . . Don't mind that Luwin dies at the weirwood and Osha finishes him off actually. Not in the book is it?

I'm just not going to say, "Oh, I'm so grateful they're making this series at all that therefore every episode is the best they could do for television. 10 out of 10, perfect score."

I gave it a 10 because I enjoyed it! I just can't understand all of the extreme negativity I see on here because I think the show is incredible. I know that I'm a lot more lenient than some book readers when it comes to departures from the original material, but that's only because I'm so impressed with the cast, sets, costumes, etc, and yes, most of the writing. And I'm a pretty laid back person.

It was never going to be a word for word adaptation. And no TV show is as powerful as the human imagination. But there is so much outrage on these boards. It's not like the show writers are rewriting your copy of ACOK - the original version of the HotU still exists, go read it if you prefer it! (And I do. But I wouldn't go so far as to call the show version "insulting", as some people do.)

As for the Sam/Other thing, the Other might take a swing at Sam when we next return to the Fist. Blimey, who cares if that scene looked like the Walking Dead, it was awesome and so scary. And have people who complained about the zombies not realised that the wights are...well... zombies?

Actually, we agree about Ros. It's an old complaint, but if they're going to trim bits of the story that are important (due to time constraints) they have to replace it with something more substantial than Ros' boobs.

For the sake of practicality, can you imagine how difficult it would be to have (basically) the main character on the show missing a nose? And Rorge's missing nose was creepy as fuck in the books, but not... not really necessary in the show, when you think about prosthetics and stuff. As for Ser Dontos, maybe they were using him to show Sansa's nature off a bit, I'm not sure.

It was pretty obvious to me that the Bastard's Boys burnt Winterfell, but yes, I'd have no idea of that if I hadn't read the books. I'm sure they'll explore it later on. It was pretty obvious to the audience, book readers and non readers alike, that Theon couldn't have ordered the destruction of Winterfell because he was unconcious.

Oh, and as for Qhorin whispering to Jon about infiltrating the wildlings, sadly he didn't do it in this episode but in episode 8 I think, he said something about one man inside the army being worth 100 fighting against it.

I know that "spot the difference" is a pretty loose term. I haven't been reading the books for as long as some of you have - doesn't mean I love them any less, but I can understand how something you've devoted a lot of time to over many years being brought to TV only to disappoint would be unenjoyable. But it doesn't disappoint me, and so I'm able to defend it like this. Some of the complaints on these boards (Syrio has HAIR?) just seem so petty to me, some, obviously more substantial (Jon & Qhorin - I'm not really sure why they changed that because it was one of my favourite things in ACOK) (or HotU - which could never have been as good as it was in the books). But everyone sees things differently, I don't want to argue with you or anyone, and I'm sorry you haven't enjoyed this episode because I really liked it.

Edited by HyacinthGirl

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I'm curious, why do people expect to see absolutely everything as it happens identical to the books? The producers have said time and time again, they have delayed certain characters for future seasons so as to not completely confuse the audience and because of expenses. It doesn't mean certain storylines are being ditched in their entirety. We may still get Cat going to Riverrun. We are getting the Reeds (ugh) but not until season 3. We are getting Ramsay Bolton but not until season 3. Some of the reordering I think in the long haul, will make sense. Wait until you've seen the whole damn series before getting upset. Why do people expect major characters to be completely fleshed out, even though they aren't by the end of book 2 let alone by book 5 right away? Do some not understand character development? Was that not gone over in any English you've ever taken? For people who can slog through thousands of pages and be patient to see where things are going, a lot of you seem to demand instant gratification from the TV show. Get over yourself and just enjoy the damn thing and if you can't, stop watching and stop whining about every 'injustice'.

There are things I like and things I don't but I don't browbeat stuff. I don't let it kill my overall enjoyment for the best show on TV because it is well-acted, usually well-written, and is just so different from anything else. For example, I hate Ros. Don't get why she's still around but maybe she'll serve some purpose after all besides breasts. That being said, I hope they keep her in extremely low doses however, I don't let that destroy things for me. Robb's being an idiot but then again, he was an idiot in the books with his quickie marriage. He may be a badass on the field but he is still young and prone to making mistake in his personal life. While Talisa may not be Jeyne Westerling, it's still the same concept so again, that change in character name doesn't bother me.

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Perhaps it was because I was very pessimistic about the HoTU scene being translated on-screen. Faithfully or otherwise, I figured they would digitize it to death. I was pleasantly surprised at how well it came across on the screen. It didn't have nearly the amount of prophecies of the book, but that would have taken at least one entire episode of television. Instead it was a very stripped down version of Dany coming to grips about her own identity. When she exits the dream and sees her dragon, strong-Dany is back, and with a vengeance. I loved her reaction to the empty safe.

I was also worried they would attempt to end every storyline in one episode, but that also appeared to be unjustified, since they wrap up each story pretty well. Tyrion's scene was fantastic, easily one of the best scenes of the entire series. Sansa's scene in court was great as well. I love that we get a glimpse of Jaime being impressed by Brienne's adept skills in battle. The final scenes of Jaqen H'ghar and Maester Luwin were sad, because the actors that played them have been wonderful.

Alfie Allen's two speeches were stirring but ultimately his scene proved anticlimatic as they just cut to Winterfell burning. I did not think that the transition was smooth, and it didn't impact me enough to see the mighty city destroyed. Equally unsatisfying was Jon's battle with Qhorin which had very little context or explanation for it occurring in the first place. My non-book reader friend had some semblance of understanding since they touched on the false betrayal two episodes ago, but the way they left it ambiguous in the end was poorly thought out in my opinion. Though Sam's interactions with the walkers was terrifying, I thought it felt out of place in relation to the rest of the season. It didn't have the same emotional impact as the high fantasy ending to Season 1 as I'm guessing they wanted it to have. Instead I think it would have made more sense to end with a more prolonged betrayal of Qhorin or a more emotionally stirring shock of Winterfell burning.

All that being said, I thought it was one of the best episodes of the season and gave it a 9.

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I love the TV show and let’s face it, what other epic TV shows do we have that is in the same class as this? It’s a miracle in itself that a fantasy show like this even got made, closest thing would be ABC’s Once Upon A Time. Imagine if one of the three networks tried to pull this off. So take what you can get and pray to the gods; old and new that its HBO and not a network. Also I understand the disappointment of some of the readers when comparing the book to the show. I watched S1 with no book history and loved it. I then started reading the books. Reached the books in the same spot as the show right around blackwater and noticed that I was not as.... (hard to find a good word to describe it). Maybe not as surprised by the show as I was in the past. I knew what was going to a happen. Does not mean the show is bad, but had something to compare it too now and I think that takes away from the show. So from a strictly show standpoint if you can stand to not read the books you will enjoy the show much more, and thats a good thing. More then likely why even with bad ratings here the actual viewership has continued to go up. But the books are just too darn entertaining to put down. Anyway specific to some of the characters and what some have said;

Sam and the WW. I am a little confused by that as well. Could they possibly have the battle there, around Sam? That’s my only thought. Otherwise I agree why would they not kill and turn him? Its a teaser and only a teaser as the order is so messed up that I hope S3 does not start off like it left with Sam behind a rock. But we'll see.

Danny. Well she is written as a 13 year old in the books and she came across to me as a bratty little 13 year old kid there. But even HBO has its limits, and a 13 year old with a horse lord is one of those limits. So they upped the age. Makes sense, but they kept the tone of the character as still a brat. So its frustrating to see someone as old as her acting like her has been written. If they matured her attitude as well as her age it would have changed who she really is. For that reason she is still one of my favorites.

Rob. For most of the 2S in the book he is off scene, to the point that you really don’t hear anything about him. Not until he comes back already wed do you get the back-story. And basically that’s all it was at the point. Back story. So I for one am not too worried that they switched it up. I certainly feel more connected to the TV character wife he married then the book character wife he married.

Other stuff too, but my take away is its a damn good show, sad to see this season end and looking forward to next season!

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This was posted in the wrong thread... now im moving here to the right one.

They shouldnt have shown the walkers at all. I hope to forget that image. The undead horse surounded by MIST would of been awesome, then cut scene. I would not be afraid of that, I would laugh at it. The wights looked good tho.

HOTU sucked, boring even. I Understand they dont want spoiler's, but they could of at least made it fun, they tryed heartfelt with Drogo, it fell flat.

The only thing i found interesting was, Dany never touched the throne, is it foreshadowing that she we make it all the way to KL, but never take the throne? Just interesting.

What about Jaqen telling Arya, the FM will help you kill all those people, WTF they will do everything but that.

Varys is masterful as always, but now he is with Ros The Useless, that is her formal title as far as i am concerned.

Dont want to spoil things, but lets have Littlefinger tell sansa he will save her...

Those thing where dumb, but i understand it cant be the books.

8/10 as far a TV goes

3/10 in relation to book.

Thank you. A dual rating. That's a good idea. Everyone's just getting too wrapped up in how literal the translation is. Fact is, you can't be literal to the source. Unless you had 1st person narrative for every character, since that is how the books are done. The show has to express the same emotions visually without character thoughts of insight, that's hard to do only with facial expression and what is said (I think we all know most people in the books never say what they are thinking anyway, right?)

9/10 as a tv series

7/10 as a book adaptation

Would have liked a more intense HotU scene, and Jon being less of a pansy/screw up and the Halfhand/Jon scenes that were cut put in. I think Jon learned a fair bit from Quorhin before being captured is all. Fairly minor gripes.

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I loved it. I keep telling my husband I'm in the perfect place. I read the books like 8 or 9 years ago, so although I remember some of the general things that happen, watching the TV show is still a 'world of wonder' to me. I'm far enough removed from the books that I'm not drawing any comparisons, or being bummed that something specific isn't included in the show.

I thought they did a great job of bringing tieing up the storylines, and left us with a great cliffhanger with the Others.

Already counting down to Season 3, can't wait!!

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Most people love the show as it is. The reason I'm emphasizing this is that, for some reason, people have got the impression that most book readers find it severely lacking. This is probably not the case. Let me point out that the series has sold twenty million books and that not all book readers bother to visit this forum. This is mostly a place where loudmouths such as myself can gather to discuss and complain.

Also, even among us loudmouths the show has been received extremely well. Never has the amount of people who rated an episode 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 or 7, ever been greater than the amount of people who gave the same episode a rating of 8, 9, or 10 -- when taken together. This does not necessarily entail that the show is of a good quality of course, but it is at least a prima facie indicator that it is. :)

Edited by Andrés Garcia

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