Wert's Star Trek: The Next Generation rewatch (now in added HD!)

[Aemon Stark]

I think they took them out, or I missed that moment for some reason. For the remaster, they have taken out some of the shittier special effects and things that didn't work originally. Not much though.

Things that didn't work dramatically you mean? ;)

When is season 6 coming out?

[DaveSumm]

I just watched the Inner Light after reading this. It was very good, I'm not sure if it's up there with my favorites. It bugs me a little that so often on TNG they have a good opportunity for a mystery, but then bottle it a bit in actually going through with it. It's fairly clear what's going on early in the episode, for me that saps the impact of the scene at the end where they reveal who he is. I think it might have worked better if at the start of the episode, Picard had simply woken up in bed with his wife and acted as if nothing was amiss, having no memory of his other life. Then you could use the extra scenes gained by not featuring the Enterprise at all to give Picard a more central role in discovering that the planet's doomed, and in creating the probe itself perhaps. Then the reveal at the end is a surprise to both Picard and the audience, and when he awakens on the bridge we see the probe (which they then could've shown being built because it wouldn't spoil what little mystery there is) for the first time outside of his 'other' life.

I guess TNG couldn't risk an entirely abstract episode, though I have a feeling DS9 would've done it like that. Which brings me to the previous question; I'm halfway through Season 5 of DS9, and you can colour me converted. It has aged far better than TNG, and it's weakest episodes are far less frequent and far better.

It is odd to be reminded by Worf's inclusion and by the Voyager 'EMH' crossover episode that DS9 was almost always running along side another Trek series. I miss those days when Trek was coming thick and fast........can't we have another series soon?

[Lightning Lord]

It's a good critique Dave, but I feel Inner Light worked extremely well as it was. Picard/Kamin was just a normal person on that planet, experiencing the life of a normal family man. It was a sharp contrast to his role in his real world, where he has no family and is one of the Federation's superstars. It wasn't about the planet, it was about Picard exploring his self, and also his potential selves. I liked the dramatic tension coming from Picard/Kamin and his family dealing with their lives and the ramifications of disaster, rather than at the forefront of the disaster.

Just my thought :)

I think TNG and DS9 both did multiple mystery-open episodes. Riker on an operating table in episode First Contact (not movie), Picard on operating table in Tapestry, and Kira-as-Carsassian in Second Skin come to mind. They didn't follow what you describe, those all have openings very similar to what you describe above.

Bonus Point: Just found out that the planet in Inner Light is called Kataan. Seems that maybe Federation should terra-form and then Settle it?

[Derfel Cadarn]

Kamin's son is played by Picard's real life son.

To behonest, never really got the love for this episode. Liked it, but not motivated to rewatch it.

[Aemon Stark]

I think The Inner Light is one of the better episodes of Trek ever. However... I do find that it strikes a very nostalgic tone, offering Picard something of an alternate "perfect" life, more of an idyllic dream than something real. It's a very powerful dream that allows considerable emotional resonance. Not to say that it should have been unduly tragic or unpleasant, but you'd think that an event like his wife's death would have been portrayed with more sadness and loss than the - at worst - bittersweet dialogue suggests.

I often contrast it with DS9's The Visitor, an episode carried mostly by a guest star (the great Tony Todd) and imbued with tragedy and much more visceral loss.

[Werthead]

Sorry can I ask which TV channel rebroadcast Star Trek and is it just in the United States? Thanks.

This thread is covering the re-release of the remastered series on Blu-Ray, which is available in the UK, USA and I believe most other countries. I think some channels are also showing it in HD, but I don't know which ones.

And what's the best star trek series in your opinion?

Deep Space Nine, by a mile. Far more consistent than any of the other series and without anywhere near as many really bad episodes.

When is season 6 coming out?

They haven't got a release date yet. I'd have assumed based on the previous schedule that it'd be around April with Season 7 in the summer or around September, but that's not been confirmed. It's rumoured that CBS are doing both 6 and 7 themselves (they were alternating seasons with other companies, but the other companies' work has been more variable, especially on Season 2 which was a bit of a let-down), which might mean it's more likely to be June or so for 6 and maybe November or December for 7.

It's also not yet been confirmed that DS9 will follow in 2015, though that's certainly the hope.

[Jaxom 1974]

It's a good critique Dave, but I feel Inner Light worked extremely well as it was. Picard/Kamin was just a normal person on that planet, experiencing the life of a normal family man. It was a sharp contrast to his role in his real world, where he has no family and is one of the Federation's superstars. It wasn't about the planet, it was about Picard exploring his self, and also his potential selves. I liked the dramatic tension coming from Picard/Kamin and his family dealing with their lives and the ramifications of disaster, rather than at the forefront of the disaster.

Just my thought :)

I think TNG and DS9 both did multiple mystery-open episodes. Riker on an operating table in episode First Contact (not movie), Picard on operating table in Tapestry, and Kira-as-Carsassian in Second Skin come to mind. They didn't follow what you describe, those all have openings very similar to what you describe above.

Bonus Point: Just found out that the planet in Inner Light is called Kataan. Seems that maybe Federation should terra-form and then Settle it?

LL, there is a Trek version of Settlers out there...

[Joutou43]

Deep Space Nine, by a mile. Far more consistent than any of the other series and without anywhere near as many really bad episodes.

I consider watching a series of Star Trek on Netflix or buying the DVDs and I wonder which series should I go to?

I know ST with the original series with Kirk,Spock and McCoy but that's pretty much all I know.

In you opinion, should I start with TNG or DS9?

[Shryke]

519: The First Duty

Wesley Crusher returns! As a screw-up!

An interesting episode, taking a peek behind the curtain of Starfleet Academy and showing how Wesley's formerly straightforward morals and outlook have been shifted by his time in the Academy. The mystery element of the episode is a little undercooked, but it's all quite entertaining and it's fun to see Robert Duncan McNeill as a prototypical Tom Paris. It's a bit of a damning indictment of Voyager's tepidness that he couldn't simply play Locarno, as Locarno was 'too morally corrupted'. Whilst he's clearly an arsehole, he's not exactly a BSG character or something.

That bit of an edge is exactly what Tom Paris' character needed.

Man, fucking Voyager...

[felice]

In you opinion, should I start with TNG or DS9?

Start with TNG; it's not as good (especially the first season), but it's entertaining enough, and it establishes the TNG/DS9 era universe. And get the blu-rays!

That bit of an edge is exactly what Tom Paris' character needed.

I suspect the "morally corrupted" thing is just an excuse and the real reason was to do with ownership of the character...

[Derfel Cadarn]

Or get the TOS blue rays. I've got mine and lookjng forward to watching the new effects.

[DaveSumm]

I would probably go about it like this: watch a few famous episodes of TOS (there's plenty of top ten lists out there) and see if it's your cup of tea. If it is, why not start at the beginning and just keep going? If it's not, move on to TNG. Don't be disheartened if it's not your cup of tea though; while I enjoy TOS, I can no longer take it seriously as a plausible future, it's just too dated, the clothes and decor too 60's.

With TNG, there is an overall arc that starts with the pilot and ends with the finale. So I would watch the first one first. Then again, watch some well regarded eps and see how you get on. Either carry on (and be aware, the first season is the weakest by some distance and also a lot closer in tone to TOS) or move on to DS9.

DS9 is much more arc orientated than its predecessors, so if you've made it this far I'd just go straight through in order. To be honest, while DS9 is the best series IMO, I'd say if the best episodes of TNG don't float your boat then the Trek universe probably isn't for you.

Then there's Voyager, where they thought 'hey, DS9 had some great characters and relationships, let's go the other direction and fill this ship with a bunch of sappy nobodies'. But there's still strong episodes, and still enjoy watching it. Plus I was a teenager when it aired, Seven wore a skin tight uniform, blah blah blah.

Enterprise - better than Voyager in some regards, weaker in others, still nothing like the hey day of TNG/DS9. The first series since TOS to get cut short before making seven seasons.

[The hairy bear]

The mystery element of the episode is a little undercooked, but it's all quite entertaining and it's fun to see Robert Duncan McNeill as a prototypical Tom Paris. It's a bit of a damning indictment of Voyager's tepidness that he couldn't simply play Locarno, as Locarno was 'too morally corrupted'. Whilst he's clearly an arsehole, he's not exactly a BSG character or something.

I recall reading somewhere else that when creating Voyager, the intention was having RDM playing Locarno. But at the last minute the lawyers realized that this would mean having to credit and pay "The First Duty"'s writer for every Voyager episode where Paris appeared.

I consider watching a series of Star Trek on Netflix or buying the DVDs and I wonder which series should I go to?

I know ST with the original series with Kirk,Spock and McCoy but that's pretty much all I know.

In you opinion, should I start with TNG or DS9?

DS9 has aged better, but perhaps it's advisable to start with some prior knowledge of the setting. Since TNG is mostly episodic, my suggestion would be to watch the following episodes from TNG and then go to DS9:

• The Best of Both Worlds, parts 1&2 (For Sisko's background)

• The Wounded (Introduction to the Cardassians, and a big Miles episode)

Ensign Ro (Introduction to Bajor)

If you watch those four episodes and you enjoy it a lot, you can go back and keep watching TNG. If it's just OK, but you'd prefer having long archs, go to DS9.

[DaveSumm]

I would throw in 'Q Who?' first for completeness and awesomeness.

[sToNED_CAT]

I like TNG better than DS9 primarily because of characters/actors. Picard>Sisko, Riker>Kira, Data>Odo, Worf=Worf, Crusher>Bashir and so on. Only that Cardassian tailor was great. Jake and that young Fereng were better than Wesley, but only because Wesley was so horrible. DS9 had better arc, but TNG had better standalones. Also Cardassians were not very original villains, they were basically just grey Romulans with the same opressive militaristic state and uber powerful espionage organization.

Also it might be nitpicking but I liked TNG battles better, because they were not so starswarish.

[Aemon Stark]

Yeesh, you enjoyed Crusher more than Bashir? :ack:

Cardassians were nothing like the Romulans and, to quote Garak's mentor Enabran Tain, the Tal Shiar are "sloppy". There's probably no alien civilization on Trek that's been given the depth of characterization or history as the ol' Spoonheads. They weren't really villains in the end either.

Anyway, in terms of TNG I agree with a limited sampling of a few key episodes. From the first season it's probably reasonable to watch Encounter at Farpont, and then skip ahead maybe to Conspiracy or right to season 2. Definitely watch The Measure of a Man, A Matter of Honor, Contagion, and Q Who, though season 2 has a number of other worthwhile episodes. Pretty much all of seasons 3 and 4 are worth watching, but I'd start with The Survivors, The Enemy, The Defector, Deja Q, Yesterday's Enterprise, Sins of a Father, Sarek, and of course The Best of Both Worlds in season 3. In season 4, the conclusion of The Best of Both Worlds, Family, Brothers, Remember Me, Reunion, Data's Day, The Wounded, First Contact, The Nth Degree, The Drumhead, The Mind's Eye, and Redemption Part 1 are all worth it. Season 5 opens with the conclusion of Redemption, then follow up with Darmok, Ensign Ro, Unification, Conundrum, Ethics, Cause and Effect, The First Duty, The Perfect Mate, I, Borg, The Next Phase, The Inner Light, and Time's Arrow Part 1. Then onto season 6 with the conclusion of Time's Arrow, Relics, Schisms, True Q, Chain of Command, Face of the Enemy, Tapestry, Lessons, The Chase, Frame of Mind, Second Chances, Timescape. If you're feeling completist, you could watch Decent Part 1 and follow it with Part 2 which is the season 7 premiere. It's not great, even though at the time I watched it the first time (I was 10 or 11) it seemed pretty cool. Season 7 is otherwise a mixed bag and you could get by with Phantasms, Parallels, The Pegasus, Lower Decks, Journey's End (important Voyager setup if nothing else), Preemptive Strike (ostensibly more Voyager setup but ends up as far more relevant to DS9), and finally the excellent finale All Good Things...

So that's a lot, but I think it hits all the highlights. Keep in mind that DS9 started midway through TNG's sixth season, so there are few plot threads that actually overlap, along with one outright crossover episode in "Birthright" (TNG), which unfortunately is something of a mixed bag itself (great first part, so-so second part). The only really essentially DS9 viewing is probably the aforementioned The Best of Both Worlds, The Wounded, and Ensign Ro, though I would add Data's Day (season 4), and most of the Klingon arc, including Sins of a Father (season 3), Family, The Drumhead, The Mind's Eye (season 4), and Redemption (season 4/5) as these provide a lot of crucial Worf backstory. And I guess Journey's End and Preemptive Strike (season 7) are very relevant to a major DS9 storyline too.

[felice]

With TNG, there is an overall arc that starts with the pilot and ends with the finale.

Well, the finale references the pilot; none of the intervening episodes have anything to do with them.

[DaveSumm]

Well, the finale references the pilot; none of the intervening episodes have anything to do with them.

All I meant was that if you were planning on seeing the whole series through, you would need to have seen the pilot as opposed to TOS where you wouldn't (IIRC).

I like TNG better than DS9 primarily because of characters/actors. Picard>Sisko, Riker>Kira, Data>Odo, Worf=Worf, Crusher>Bashir and so on. Only that Cardassian tailor was great. Jake and that young Fereng were better than Wesley, but only because Wesley was so horrible. DS9 had better arc, but TNG had better standalones. Also Cardassians were not very original villains, they were basically just grey Romulans with the same opressive militaristic state and uber powerful espionage organization.

Also it might be nitpicking but I liked TNG battles better, because they were not so starswarish.

When you list them as individual characters, you have a point. But where DS9 really shines is relationships, and in my experience any fiction that focuses on how groups of characters interact rather than individuals is better for the approach (my favourite example being the mutually defining Davos and Stannis, who are each the embodiment of the other's outlook).

Sisko/Dax (old friendship carried over into a different life)

Sisko/Jake (by television standards, a very developed father/son relationship)

Sisko/Kira (initial mistrust of Starfleet, later the difficulty in working alongside a religious icon, as seen in 'The Ship')

Odo/Quark (fantastic love/hate relationship, neither ever admitting they'd be bored rigid without the other)

Odo/Kira (an admittedly well trodden 'good friends but the male wants more', but very well played and written I feel)

Odo/Worf (the friction of Odo doing Worf's old job as seen in 'Hippocratic Oath')

Kira/O'Brien (well, she had his baby...)

Dax/Bashir (the initial romantic intentions of Bashir which admittedly dwindle)

Dax/Worf (they get it ooooon)

Dax/Quark (Dax's unique fondness for the Ferengi)

Bashir/O'Brien (er.....they're friends)

It's worth noting I'm restricting myself to main cast members for DS9, the list could be twice as long if you add in Garak, Dukat, Rhom, Nog, Lwaxana, etc.

I would argue that almost all of the above relationships are more fleshed out and more compelling than anything TNG has to offer. All I can think of for TNG is Picard and Dr Crusher's history, Data and Geordi being friends, and Riker and Troi's history. Even those are pretty weak and rarely mentioned. What can be said about any other pairing that doesn't simply appeal to the individual characters? Worf and Data? Troi and Geordi? Crusher and Riker?

[Maltaran]

Dax/Bashir (the initial romantic intentions of Bashir which admittedly dwindle)

And then return full force in season 7 with Ezri - apparently, this was because the writers' original plan was for Julian and Jadzia to eventually get together, before they brought in Worf

[Werthead]

Data and Geordi: The original Troy and Abed ;)

The Sisko/Jake one was very well-played. Avery Brooks said he was constantly fed up by TV only showing dysfunctional relationships between black men and their sons and fought hard that the relationship on screen should be much more mature and trusting, even when they disagreed or one of them did something to hurt the other one.

I must admit that O'Brien is my favourite Star Trek engineer to date, certainly the closest in spirit to Scotty. LaFore would dialate the phase inducers to produce a harmonic torsion effect and you'd be going, "What the hell?" O'Brien would jury-rig some powe couplings together with wire and spit and warn it would either work or explode.

The ban on technobabble in DS9 (only really enforced after the middle of Season 3 though) is one of the things I like the most about it, not to mention the forbidding of 'holodeck emergency' stories.