US Politics: Voting Tales and Victory Ales

[Deedles]

Have fun with the election folks. So much fun ( and fear) watching it.

Now, a question for the cognoscenti, exit polls start to be published at 5 eastern time and ? some polls close at 7. What time is it likely that some of the swing states will be called? I ,m 5 hours ahead and trying to figure out whether i stay up and then go to bed or get up super early. Sadly an all nighter is out of the question due to advanced age and a requirement to function at work tomorrow.

[Maltaran]

Have fun with the election folks. So much fun ( and fear) watching it.

Now, a question for the cognoscenti, exit polls start to be published at 5 eastern time and ? some polls close at 7. What time is it likely that some of the swing states will be called? I ,m 5 hours ahead and trying to figure out whether i stay up and then go to bed or get up super early. Sadly an all nighter is out of the question due to advanced age and a requirement to function at work tomorrow.

I tried the getting up early thing last time round, and found that 6am GMT was not early enough - Obama had already won.

[Fez]

Oh hell no. I love skepticism. But being skeptical demands of me that I be just as skeptical of the knee-jerk "it's not true because I don't want to believe it" reaction as I am of the initial reports, and that I actually spend 5 minutes running a Google search to see if someone's claim of disenfranchisement is true or not before deciding that my fellow citizen is a fraudulent piece of shit.

You are not being a skeptic in concluding that anyone who experiences something that doesn't fit your pre-existing beliefs is lying. You're just being as full of shit as you expected them of being.

ETA: FYI, I'm still maintaining a skeptical frame of mind - all we've got right now is a video and some "interview" material lifted from the YouTube comments, published on Yahoo and Gawker, etc. But I'm going to say the guy spliced up the video, etc. - doesn't seem to be any reason to think that or to defame his character that way.

If you want to automatically believe everything that goes on Youtube, be my guest. You're very quickly going to run out of tinfoil however.

As for me, I already saw the video earlier this morning. I saw the diary about it that got posted on DailyKos. And I saw quite a few people come to the same initial conclusion as me regarding the poor quality of the video. I'm as informed as I can be about it, and until I see proof otherwise, I will assume its an attention-seeking hoax.

[11th Heaven]

Woo, ballot received. I have officially made my contribution to the downfall of US society.

That's the spirit!

[Deedles]

Oh by early i meant around 4 GMT or 11 EST. I get up at 6.30 every day so i think 4 should be doable. You lose the buildup through which is regrettable. I just don't think I'll be functional if i stay up past 1

[TrackerNeil]

If someone was going to use a voting machine to commit fraud, they'd just make it count the votes wrong. They wouldn't make it display it on the screen.

If someone were trying to use fraud to swing an election, they'd target absentee ballots. They wouldn't futz around with impersonation fraud, a conspiracy involving hundreds or thousands of people.

And yet 2012 has seen how many laws preventing impersonation fraud?

[Whitestripe]

The Shryke rule shall be known far and wide.

The Shryke Rule or the Skunkbelly Rule? Stripe's Law has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? ;)

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

WD,

That is pretty scary.

Same thing happened in Ohio during early voting, but with Romney votes coming up for Obama. Conspiracy, glitch, or voter error/lie?

http://www.marionstar.com/proart/20121031/news03/310310009/voting-machine-swaps-romney-obama?pagerestricted=1

Then this:

Lawful Republican election observers booted out of Philadelphia polling places by Democratic poll captains -- federal judge orders them back in. Also, illegal Obama electioneering at polling site in Philly --giant mural of Obama right over polling station.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/06/judge-issuing-order-to-reinstate-booted-philadelphia-election-officials/?intcmp=trending

GOP lawyer credentialed as observer forced out of polling place at gunpoint in Detroit.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/nov/6/picket-gop-poll-watcher-detroit-threatened-gun-911/

Election judge wearing “OBAMA” hat while performing duties in Chicago

http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/election-judge-wears-obama-cap-while-checking-voters-obamas-chicago-ward_661843.html

If you only look for one side, that's all you're going to find. You can rest assured that conservatives are just as outraged over voting misconduct stories as are some folks here. I think it's disgraceful the way some folks already labelling a possible Romney victory as fraudulent. Howard Dean, for example, already has declared that a Romney victory in Ohio would have to be fraudulent.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/howard-dean-the-only-way-obama-loses-ohio-is-through-voter-fraud/

What is particularly asinine about this is that most big cities are run by Democrats, supported by Democratic councils, appointees, etc.. The idea that Republicans somehow manage to infiltrate those operations to commit fraud, despite the watchful eyes of thousands of Democratic lawyers and experienced poll-watchers, is borderline paranoia. Whose presence, btw, is why Kerry never challenged the 2004 vote in Ohio. Because his own people, in every polling place, could not find any legitimate basis to do so.

And in Ohio, it is those local politicians who choose what type of voting, punch card, electronic, optical scan, etc., to use. It varies by polling place. So again, it takes assuming that professional Democrat pols who have forgotten more about the nuts and bolts of elections than anyone here will ever know, and who have control over the voting machinery, somehow get snookered into voting methods that end up being manipulated by diabolical Republican operatives. And also assuming that Republicans somehow manage to suppress voter turnout in jurisdictions where Democrats control the political machinery and the polling places. Right.

No election is perfect, and both sides are always going to be able to find anecdotal evidence of voting errors/misconduct/problems. It's just sad that someone like Howard Dean can't even pass the Richard Nixon 1960 election test in terms of drawing the line between partisanship and what is good for the country.

[Pebble thats Stubby]

Oh by early i meant around 4 GMT or 11 EST. I get up at 6.30 every day so i think 4 should be doable. You lose the buildup through which is regrettable. I just don't think I'll be functional if i stay up past 1

I think it was about 3am GMT when it was offical last time, I was working a very queite nightshift so was watching the whole thing live. this year I'm not so lucky. I may stay up will late, but I doubt it will be that late.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

FLOW,

You know I'd say the same thing if the voter was attempting to vote Romney and it came up Obama. The first voting machine I used this morning didn't want to let me vote write in. Intold the poll workers and they shut it down and moved me to another machine. I'd not saying it's a conspiracy. I'm saying it's scary, that's all.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

If someone were trying to use fraud to swing an election, they'd target absentee ballots. They wouldn't futz around with impersonation fraud, a conspiracy involving hundreds or thousands of people.

And yet 2012 has seen how many laws preventing impersonation fraud?

I don't believe I've ever stated a position on impersonation fraud, not sure why this was addressed to me? I don't believe voting lends government legitimacy.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

FLOW,

You know I'd say the same thing if the voter was attempting to vote Romney and it came up Obama. The first voting machine I used this morning didn't want to let me vote write in. Intold the poll workers and they shut it down and moved me to another machine. I'd not saying it's a conspiracy. I'm saying it's scary, that's all.

Scot, I get that. What concerns me are folks screaming fraud and trying to delegitimize the result of an election before it has occured. Elections are not perfect, and there are going to be stories coming out all day that can get partisans on either side angry. Here's a Twitchy link of people bitching about showing up to vote, and being told someone has already cast a vote in their name:

http://twitchy.com/2012/11/06/voter-fraud-people-go-to-vote-ballots-already-cast-in-their-names-others-vote-more-than-once/

My point is that there are going to be some irregularities on both sides, but when people get tunnel-vision and only search for stuff that supports their view, they are more likely to come to a dangerous conclusion that the election result (if adverse to them) should not be respected. That concerns me a lot, because if you proceed from the premise that a national election was truly rigged/stolen, then you are quite close to having justification for violence.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Election judge wearing “OBAMA” hat while performing duties in Chicago

http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/election-judge-wears-obama-cap-while-checking-voters-obamas-chicago-ward_661843.html

Um, you do know that an "election judge" is just a fancy word for "poll worker" - right? And that in Illinois, election judges are selected based upon an explicit apportionment by political party. There is absolutely no issue whatsoever with a Democratic poll worker wearing an Obama hat or a Republican poll worker wearing a Romney hat.

[Shryke]

Same thing happened in Ohio during early voting, but with Romney votes coming up for Obama. Conspiracy, glitch, or voter error/lie?

http://www.marionstar.com/proart/20121031/news03/310310009/voting-machine-swaps-romney-obama?pagerestricted=1

Then this:

Lawful Republican election observers booted out of Philadelphia polling places by Democratic poll captains -- federal judge orders them back in. Also, illegal Obama electioneering at polling site in Philly --giant mural of Obama right over polling station.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/06/judge-issuing-order-to-reinstate-booted-philadelphia-election-officials/?intcmp=trending

GOP lawyer credentialed as observer forced out of polling place at gunpoint in Detroit.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/watercooler/2012/nov/6/picket-gop-poll-watcher-detroit-threatened-gun-911/

Election judge wearing “OBAMA” hat while performing duties in Chicago

http://m.weeklystandard.com/blogs/election-judge-wears-obama-cap-while-checking-voters-obamas-chicago-ward_661843.html

If you only look for one side, that's all you're going to find. You can rest assured that conservatives are just as outraged over voting misconduct stories as are some folks here. I think it's disgraceful the way some folks already labelling a possible Romney victory as fraudulent. Howard Dean, for example, already has declared that a Romney victory in Ohio would have to be fraudulent.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/howard-dean-the-only-way-obama-loses-ohio-is-through-voter-fraud/

What is particularly asinine about this is that most big cities are run by Democrats, supported by Democratic councils, appointees, etc.. The idea that Republicans somehow manage to infiltrate those operations to commit fraud, despite the watchful eyes of thousands of Democratic lawyers and experienced poll-watchers, is borderline paranoia. Whose presence, btw, is why Kerry never challenged the 2004 vote in Ohio. Because his own people, in every polling place, could not find any legitimate basis to do so.

And in Ohio, it is those local politicians who choose what type of voting, punch card, electronic, optical scan, etc., to use. It varies by polling place. So again, it takes assuming that professional Democrat pols who have forgotten more about the nuts and bolts of elections than anyone here will ever know, and who have control over the voting machinery, somehow get snookered into voting methods that end up being manipulated by diabolical Republican operatives. And also assuming that Republicans somehow manage to suppress voter turnout in jurisdictions where Democrats control the political machinery and the polling places. Right.

No election is perfect, and both sides are always going to be able to find anecdotal evidence of voting errors/misconduct/problems. It's just sad that someone like Howard Dean can't even pass the Richard Nixon 1960 election test in terms of drawing the line between partisanship and what is good for the country.

Uh, nothing you mentioned here is all that bad. Some of it doesn't even count imo. Especially compared to, say, Husted's dickery in Ohio.

I do find it funny you've been forced to fall back to the position of "both sides are just as bad at election tampering". Even you can't pretend the GOP isn't fully committed to the cause I guess.

[Shryke]

And Dean is pretty much correct. Given the information we have at this point, the only way Obama loses Ohio is if something massively weird or unexpected or illegal goes on.

And the illegal (or should be illegal) part is probably the most likely here given the actions of the GOP in Ohio for the past year+.

[Ser Greguh]

WD,

That is pretty scary.

It's easy to postulate a conspiracy here, but that looks like a miscalibrated touchscreen. I deal with these stupid things (touchscreens, not voting machines) on a daily basis and they pretty much suck. It's pretty common to physically touch it at a certain point but for the screen to register that touch a little bit off.

[lokisnow]

judge shot down the suits on the Ohio software patches.

Can we please bring in the UN to run our elections so treasonous fucks like Husted can't steal them?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

SerG,

Not claiming a conspiracy. Just scary to see.

[ljkeane]

Uh, nothing you mentioned here is all that bad. Some of it doesn't even count imo. Especially compared to, say, Husted's dickery in Ohio.

To be fair I'd be pretty concerned about a couple of those things if they happened in the UK. That's not to say they're clear evidence of fraud but they aren't great.

Again it seems to me the US really needs some sort of independent body overseeing elections.

[Greywolf2375]

spent more time filling out my ballot than getting my ballot. Lines this morning were outside the school the vote is held at, at 2pm there was 1 person in front of me getting hers as I walked up.

No shenanigans going on here it seems...how boring.