US Politics: Voting Tales and Victory Ales

[sologdin]

people put up with this shit?

adorno's authoritarian personality. milgram's experiment. stanford prison experiment. people in the US tend to be drones and do what they're told. it's the perfect breeding ground for fascism, which is why the two major parties are variations of friendly fascism: pro-business, pro-war, pro-biopolitical management. obstacles to the exercise of the right to vote are not read as infringements of the right, but just a cost of doing business as a voter, mostly because none of the official channels of communication carry the grievance--and if no one has told the proto-fascist to think the grievance, the grievance remains unthought as outside the bounds of respectable opinion, but rather part of the tradition of gay commie moslem atheist terrorist nazi opinion.

it's a joke. the US is the last great political joke of homo sapiens. it'd be extremely funny, too, if the US didn't savagely slaughter so many motherfuckers.

[IheartTesla]

I wouldnt call the US a third world country, but parts of it like Florida definitely so. And whoever said the US doesnt need an indepoendent federal system for voting when I and others were banging on that needs to eat their words.

Unless you like the sight of 1000 lawyers going back and forth in Ohio and Florida.

[Fragile Bird]

Lol, Solo you're going to turn me into a raving socialist.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

IHT,

How about a purely independent system for administering elections unaffiliated with the Federal Government?

[Frog Eater]

I wouldnt call the US a third world country, but parts of it like Florida definitely so. And whoever said the US doesnt need an indepoendent federal system for voting when I and others were banging on that needs to eat their words.

Unless you like the sight of 1000 lawyers going back and forth in Ohio and Florida.

I really really really want the election to not be close so I dont have to stomach the courts deciding another election. Especially the Ohio Supreme Court, where all members are elected Republicans.

[Commodore]

write-in/third party only makes sense if 1) the outcome is certain and it's a protest vote, 2) you think there is no difference between the two certain outcomes, or 3) you think the two certain outcomes are equally bad

A vote expresses an outcome preference, not a candidate preference.

A runoff style system would give people an opportunity to vote for their first preferred outcome without sacrificing their second preferred (and more likely) outcome.

[Fez]

Unless you like the sight of 1000 lawyers going back and forth in Ohio and Florida.

Lot of lawyers need work; think of elections as a stimulus fund for them.

[Mr. E]

people in the US tend to be drones and do what they're told.

Fixed for you ;)

[Ormond]

Voted on my way to the university. I got there at about 7:50, ten minutes before the polls officially opened, and was the 11th voter in line. There were nine poll workers in my one precinct. All of them were women, and none of them seemed to be really elderly. At least none of them looked like they would be over 70 to me. Of course I'm 61 myself so some of you may think I'm "elderly."

When 8:00 came around you first had to check in with a woman standing in the middle of the room to make sure your name was on the precinct's rolls. Then you were directed to either the "A-k" or "L-Z" table to get your actual ballot. I managed to be #2 in the A-K line. We have paper ballots where one fills in the little ovals with a pencil and which are later tabulated by a scanner in some central office.

We vote on way too many things in Nebraska. I really don't think Regents of the University of Nebraska and members of the local water and natural gas board should be things all citizens vote on. It clutters up the ballot and slows you down. We had about five ballot questions. They included amendments which would modify the term limits for the Nebraska state legislature so they could serve three four-year terms instead of two, and raising their salary to the princely sum of about $25,000. I voted for both of those but I bet neither of them pass. Unfortunately a lot of Americans, especially out here in "red" states like Nebraska, have the idea that paying legislators anything is too much, which of course guarantees that only rich people and retirees can afford to be in the legislature.

I did my bit for Obama to help his long shot 15% chance of winning Omaha's electoral vote. Tonight I will go for dinner to a fellow professor's house and then watch returns. We did this four years ago; it's become a tradition. He and his wife are great people and probably a lot more leftwing than I am -- he's a big Saul Alinsky fan. :)

[Ormond]

people put up with this shit?

adorno's authoritarian personality. milgram's experiment. stanford prison experiment. people in the US tend to be drones and do what they're told. it's the perfect breeding ground for fascism, which is why the two major parties are variations of friendly fascism: pro-business, pro-war, pro-biopolitical management. obstacles to the exercise of the right to vote are not read as infringements of the right, but just a cost of doing business as a voter, mostly because none of the official channels of communication carry the grievance--and if no one has told the proto-fascist to think the grievance, the grievance remains unthought as outside the bounds of respectable opinion, but rather part of the tradition of gay commie moslem atheist terrorist nazi opinion.

it's a joke. the US is the last great political joke of homo sapiens. it'd be extremely funny, too, if the US didn't savagely slaughter so many motherfuckers.

Uh, Sologdin, as someone who teaches cross-cultural psychology you really shouldn't imply that things like authoritarian personality and Milgram's obedience study are more applicable in the USA than most other parts of the world. It may very well be the opposite.

Because of concerns about the ethics of Milgram's experimental protocol, there haven't been a huge number of replications of his original obedience experiment. But of those that have the highest percentage of obeying the experimenter and giving the full dose of electric shock to the other "volunteer" was 92% in the Netherlands, supposedly a much more liberal place politically than the USA.

In experiments on the broader concept of conformity (how many people will agree with a group on a basic perceptual question where the group consensus is clearly wrong), people in individualistic cultures are significantly less conformist than those in collectivistic cultures. And the United States is the most individualistic culture in the world (though the other big English speaking countries, Australia, the UK, and Canada, are right behind us.)

In other words, if you think things like Milgram and the Stanford Prison experiment show the US is proto-fascist, most of the rest of the world must be completely fascist already.

[TrackerNeil]

Heh. I don't participate in professional wrestling either. It's oddly similar to the political process. I still get to call it stupid and those who follow it intellectually shallow.

Calling folks like Jonathan Bernstein stupid is just foolish.

[mormont]

On the grounds that while pollsters are sometimes wrong, the bookies rarely are, I decided to take a look at what they think.

The longest odds I can find on an Obama victory are 1/5. In a two-horse race, that's insane. Romney, I can get at 4/1 or more. In fact, I can't find a price shorter than 7/2.

[Fez]

Just heard from some family members that they spent almost 3 hours on line to vote in Brooklyn. I'm thinking fears that Sandy would depress Obama's popular vote total were unfounded.

[Mexal]

Just heard from some family members that they spent almost 3 hours on line to vote in Brooklyn. I'm thinking fears that Sandy would depress Obama's popular vote total were unfounded.

Brooklyn wasn't really hit that hard outside of the Rockaways. Fears were definitely unfounded.

[Reposado]

On the grounds that while pollsters are sometimes wrong, the bookies rarely are, I decided to take a look at what they think.

The longest odds I can find on an Obama victory are 1/5. In a two-horse race, that's insane. Romney, I can get at 4/1 or more. In fact, I can't find a price shorter than 7/2.

i'm seeing obama at 1-4.7. romney at 3.6-1. as of yesterday, it was obama 1-3.6 and romney 2.7-1. that shift is pretty strong for one day and its clear the house has been trying to entice romney bets for at least a week.

additionally, add those to the non-voters, and i'm registered in central forida.

a vote is a signal of support, and that i cannot give to anyone on the ballot

[Datepalm]

Any surveys/something out there on what the turnout would be if voting wasn't so logistically unpleasant? With all the best intents in the world, some people must give up and go home, and some never make it at all, especially on a work day.

[Guest Raidne]

FB - I am in DC. It will go Obama by about 90%. I tried very hard to move to VA before the election - didn't happen. I'm home sick today - think I may have walking pneumonia. My friends waited in line over an hour and a half for early voting last weekend. I'm staying home; Obama will win without me.

[Sci-2]

write-in/third party only makes sense if 1) the outcome is certain and it's a protest vote, 2) you think there is no difference between the two certain outcomes, or 3) you think the two certain outcomes are equally bad

A vote expresses an outcome preference, not a candidate preference.

A runoff style system would give people an opportunity to vote for their first preferred outcome without sacrificing their second preferred (and more likely) outcome.

This sounds good to me, though I'd need to read up on runoff style systems.

eta:

@Raidne -> You didn't vote early? I'm actually amazed by how easy it was in DC.

[Fez]

Any surveys/something out there on what the turnout would be if voting wasn't so logistically unpleasant? With all the best intents in the world, some people must give up and go home, and some never make it at all, especially on a work day.

I'm sure there are, but dunno where. Oregon and Washington state have 100% mail in voting, so I think you're best bet would be to compare their voter participation rate (which I've heard is high for both) to other states that are demographically similar but that do things the old fashioned way.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

On the grounds that while pollsters are sometimes wrong, the bookies rarely are, I decided to take a look at what they think.

The longest odds I can find on an Obama victory are 1/5. In a two-horse race, that's insane. Romney, I can get at 4/1 or more. In fact, I can't find a price shorter than 7/2.

Can you explain what this means to non-gamblers? I read it like "O has a 1 in 5 chance of winning, or if you bet $1 you will get $5 if O wins" and that make no sense to me (I can't even come up with what the Romney numbers mean)