New Sample Chapter

[urizen]

The trip from King's Landing to Pentos is probably only 3-5 days at the most, based on the times given for cross-Narrow Sea trips in AFFC.

What! only 3-5 days? Which Narrow Sea trips do you refer to? I can't remember any such trips in AFFC

[Gravity Gun]

Awesome chapter. BTW does anyone know a website that has all the excerpts from ADWD? I've read two so far: one is the Dany chapter included in the AFFC, the other is this. Has Martin released any other?

[WhiteRaven]

I must say, I liked the sample... Tyrion's turn towards "the dark side" is really not that surprising... I have enjoyed all four books so far, and it's my guess that I will enjoy the next one too

[nix]

Wow, that chapter was good.

A few thoughts:

Regarding the hate against Jaime: of course. Tyrion loved Jaime. He chose Jaime's word and his family over Tysha. He feels much more hurt and betrayed by Jaime's action than he would feel by Cersei or his father because he loves Jaime. It usually hurts more if the people who love betray us. Doesn't mean that he is actually going to go for the kill yet.

The text regarding the heads on pikes, with Cersei and then as an afterthought putting Jaime next to Cersei, close to her, also had an undertone of sulkiness to me: Jaime likes Cersei better than me, and loves her more than me, so his head can be on a pike next to her.

His treatment of the Lyseni girl, and his observation that love, friendship and honour have not worked for him, so now he will use fear and cruelty: makes me wonder if Tywin has had a similar development (maybe linked to Castamere?), especially when combined with Tywin's sister's comment that Tyrion is his father true heir.

Detail: if Tyrion did hit Tywin in the cock instead of the stomach, he probably would have survived. Or been alive at least long enough to get help which would have meant the end of Tyrion.

I believe Tyrion blames his family, but blames himself and his own actions in Tysha's downfall even more. And that that is what is eating him up, and makes him drunk and obsessive. However, it is easier to hate the Lannisters than to hate himself. He may wake up to the bittersweet fact that even if he succeeds in getting his revenge and killing all of them, his betrayal and his problems will still exist.

Fat Man, interesting observation, that both Cersei and Tyrion seem to want to emasculate Tywin. The end result -emasculation- is the same, but I think Cersei and Tyrion are coming from two very different drivers: for Tyrion emasculation is a result of punishment for the way his father treated Shae and his hypocrisy (Tyrion can't whore, Tywin can), while for Cersei I see her satisfaction in having ehr father referred to as a she resulting from the fact that she wanted and felt she had the right to be Tywin's heir, while Tywin continued to treat her as a woman and a pawn. Different motivations, same result. (However, while writing this I realise that both emasculations do come from the different ways Tywin treats his children).

Lastly, I doubt if joining Dany automatically means betraying Jaime and leading to Jaime's death at Dany's or Tyrion's hands. Yes, Dany probably wants Jaime dead, but Dany is having the blinkers removed from her eyes regarding the Targs and her father. I'd say it depends on the information Dany has when she runs into Jaime. I can't see Jaime defending himself and explaining his motivations to Dany (seems out of character), so that would have to come from either Brienne, or Tyrion if Tyrion knows and wants to speak up.

[TheVatican]

I always felt that Tyrion was going to go to Dany, but not only because he had no where to go, and it was his only chance to get back at the people that hurt him. But also, because, based off of the free chapter at the end of the last book, which talked about DAny's problem, with the Gang that worships the harpies, or the harpy gang. One of those, you know the one that is killing her unsullied and causing problems for her.

Well it is said by Barristan that the unsullied are not the right tool to deal with the problem and it then just pretty much ends there. Well, what better person to deal with the issue that is causing some problems for Dany? Tyrion can prove himself to Dany by solving the Harpy problem. He is obviosly shrewed enough and is the right person for the job. His type of character is perfect. Plus, it gives him another in with Dany.

Granted this does not mean that his other in's with Dany will not be utilized, but they are not mutually exclusive and hence, they can all be used to gain her favor and trust.

[The Lord Dragon]

I always felt that Tyrion was going to go to Dany, but not only because he had no where to go, and it was his only chance to get back at the people that hurt him. But also, because, based off of the free chapter at the end of the last book, which talked about DAny's problem, with the Gang that worships the harpies, or the harpy gang. One of those, you know the one that is killing her unsullied and causing problems for her.

Well it is said by Barristan that the unsullied are not the right tool to deal with the problem and it then just pretty much ends there. Well, what better person to deal with the issue that is causing some problems for Dany? Tyrion can prove himself to Dany by solving the Harpy problem. He is obviosly shrewed enough and is the right person for the job. His type of character is perfect. Plus, it gives him another in with Dany.

Granted this does not mean that his other in's with Dany will not be utilized, but they are not mutually exclusive and hence, they can all be used to gain her favor and trust.

Yes. I think that Tyrion will be like a Hand to Dany, if she is smart enough to use him. I see him becoming one of her closest councilors. I also see him as being pivotal in helping her to train the Dragons. I guarantee you that Tyrion will ride a Dragon at some point. It may only be in training, but the opportunity to write about the Dwarf on the back of a Dragon will be too tempting for a writer like GRRM to pass up. It will be an awesome moment, even if Tyrion does not become an official Dragonrider.

[Diva]

Also, I think it's important to note that Martin isn't necessarily saying Dany is the savior of Westeros but he's saying that, from Varys's and Illyrio's perspectives, she is.

yeah. see I don't get this. sure Varys lives there now, but neither of them are natives of Westeros so why do they care about Westeros needing a saviour?

Does Illyrio think he is going to get some kind of special merchant rights or something if Dany is queen? Surely Varys is wealthy enough now to leave Westeros any time he likes? Sure he enjoys the webs and manipulations, but I just don't get *why* they both want Dany on the throne. I can't really see how the personal gain works for them.

[Werthead]

What! only 3-5 days? Which Narrow Sea trips do you refer to? I can't remember any such trips in AFFC

I think it's mentioned when Arya's ship crosses from Saltpans to Braavos and later with Sam's ships zig-zagging back and forth across the sea several times. I think Tyrion may also have mentioned it when he sent Myrcella to Dorne via Braavos in ACoK.

Awesome chapter. BTW does anyone know a website that has all the excerpts from ADWD? I've read two so far: one is the Dany chapter included in the AFFC, the other is this. Has Martin released any other?

Those are the only two that have been revealed like this so far. He's read a few others out at conventions and funnily enough these can be found under the sticky, A DANCE WITH DRAGONS at the top of this very forum.

Hmm, that makes sense. I doubt he'd go by land, though; wouldn't that entail crossing the Dothraki Sea, which, as we see with Dany, isn't exactly a fun experience? Unless my geography is wrong; is Slaver's Bay east of the Dothraki Sea, or south?

You can also follow the coastal roads, the old Valyrian highways that lead from Volantis along the coastline all the way south and east to Valyria and the Lands of the Long Summer. That would keep you well away from the Dothraki Sea. Probably a very long and tedious journey though. Slaver's Bay is due south of the Dothraki Sea, although the sea probably only extends a modest distance further east before disappearing into the Red Waste.

[Dornishman]

yeah. see I don't get this. sure Varys lives there now, but neither of them are natives of Westeros so why do they care about Westeros needing a saviour?

Ah, yes. But that IS a godo question of its own, one that has plagued us for all four books now: What is Varys and Illyrios motivation?

[lokisnow]

Damn that was refreshing. I've foudn it impossible to reread AFFC, I hadn't realized just how much Tyrion's voice adds to the books.

I'd have paid five dollars for that chapter, hell let's just tell GRRM we'll buy each chapter once a week from now until he finishes ADWD. and then we'll all buy ADWD too.

Adam

[lee1026]

A king will be grateful for you dropping him on the throne. Would that do?

[kedlav]

Find someone more manipulatable... as if Robert and Ned weren't easily manipulated enough.

[Roi Woodt]

There is no peace in Westeros, no justice, no faith... and soon enough no food. When men are starving and sick of fear, they look for a savior."

I don't get it why he presumably needs Dany, if he is going to win this war with food. But maybe that has more to do that i still doubt that Illyrio and Varys realy want for Dany to become the Queen of Westeros.

This is so," Illyrio agreed, "but the world is one great web, and a man dare not touch a single strand lest all the others tremble."

If the world is one great web, what does that make the spider?

[oneeye]

That reminds me why Tyrion always is fun to read.

[DanteGabriel]

About the arguments over Illyrio's use of the word "savior": Am I missing something here? I thought it was pretty obvious that the smallfolk (or, in fact, anyone who doesn't have their own personal stake in the Westerosi dynastic struggle) would regard Dany as the savior.

"When men are starving and sick of fear, they look for a savior."

There have been numerous anecdotes throughout the books (and the novellas for that matter) about how much people equate the state of the realm with the King or the royal family. With all the horrors of the last few years in Westeros, with the coming famine and wars, all under the watch of the Baratheons and the Lannisters, the people who yearn for the "good old days" will most definitely see a long-lost Targaryen with her own three dragons as a savior.

[Wouter]

About the arguments over Illyrio's use of the word "savior": Am I missing something here? I thought it was pretty obvious that the smallfolk (or, in fact, anyone who doesn't have their own personal stake in the Westerosi dynastic struggle) would regard Dany as the savior.

That's no doubt true of some, but not in the north for example (where the Starks seems to be held in high regards). I doubt it would be true in the Reach either, because they don't seem to be doing badly there with food and all, and their lords aren't of the psychopathic types. It also depends on Dany's allies; if she allies with the Ironborn, a lot of commoners along the west coast of westeros aren't going to like that.

[DanteGabriel]

That's no doubt true of some, but not in the north for example (where the Starks seems to be held in high regards). I doubt it would be true in the Reach either, because they don't seem to be doing badly there with food and all, and their lords aren't of the psychopathic types.

The North is bleeding -- Winterfell, Deepwood Motte, Moat Cailin have fallen. Multiple noble houses have been nearly extinguished: Glover, Tallhart, Stark, Cerwyn, etc. The most powerful force in the area is under the vicious bastard Ramsay Snow/Bolton. The Liddle man that Bran and the Reeds encountered in the cave on their way to the wall said as much, complaining about the unrest in the North. While it's true that the North never seemed to be the strongest area of the Targaryen Fan Club, the region is being torn apart by the war that started in the south, and a unifying monarch who pacifies the realm could be hailed as a "savior."

The Reach is bleeding because of the Ironborn attacks on the Arbor and up the Mander.

In any case, it doesn't really matter if some regions are better off than others or are less devoted to the Targaryens than others. This is all a rhetorical device on Illyrio's part -- the realm is being torn apart by the game of thrones, and the people are looking for someone to re-unite the Seven Kingdoms. Illyrio is building a case for Dany to be this person, and her Targaryen blood is only part of the case. That's all I was saying.

[Jerol]

Great chapter, I can't believe how much I missed the little guy. Yeah, it was a little dark but what do you expect from a guy who just killed his own dad? Butterflies and moonbeams?

[Benjen]

and fairy tales. All Tyrion ever thinks about.... is riding with the wind.

[Prince of the North]

Ah, yes. But that IS a godo question of its own, one that has plagued us for all four books now: What is Varys and Illyrios motivation?

You're right, of course. I think this is one of the most pivotal questions of the story. This is pure speculation but, perhaps, as "Queenmakers" they would set themselves up as the true power behind the throne. Illyrio economically and Varys...well, in just about every other way. However, I somehow don't think their motivation for supporting Dany will be that simple.