Can a Jon Snow + Daenerys romance work in the final book?

[AlliYoyo]

You did no post the entire quote:

When Wick Whittlestick slashed at his throat, the word turned into a grunt. Jon twisted from the knife, just enough so it barely grazed his skin. He cut me. When he put his hand to the side of his neck, blood welled between his fingers.

This was not a barely grazed cut. Jon believed it was, but he is an unreliable narrator, as clearly shown when the omnipotent narrator started talking in second person, thats when the blood starting welling.

I have to say that the blood welling between his fingers is not necessarily indicative of throat slashing. Yes, it sounds more than the grazing that Jon felt, but that doesn't mean his throat had to be cut and gushing from the carotid artery. The two are at opposite ends of the scale. A light cut that's more than a graze but not in any way fatal will still have blood welling between your fingers if you put your hand to the wound. I know, I've had plenty such cuts. Hell, the knife to the gut sounds more fatal than the neck wound, and if treated quickly (and I'm fairly sure it would be) then that would not be fatal either. So, I think that Jon's unconscious, and death is far from certain.

And where is the "talking in second person" that you're referring to? I just reread where Jon was stabbed. It's all in third person.

[six]

As to Jon, I agree with Tze on this. I have absolutely no reason to believe that Jon would admire Dany. Everything I know about her, everything I know about him and his taste in women (his taste in character not physicality), tells me she will be chalk to his cheese. Comparing Dany to Ygritte and Val tells me that. The instant she walks in spouting about being the Mother of Dragons and throwing her weight around, she will antagonize him. To say nothing of course of her own reaction to Jon being a Stark.

Why are people assuming that what might start off as antagonism would stay that way for the whole duration? And I've yet to understand what this whole thing about taste in women/men has got to do with anything.

[Sun]

Because I don't think ASOIAF will suddenly morph into Pride and Prejudice in act 3.

[KINGpanther]

Why are people assuming that what might start off as antagonism would stay that way for the whole duration? And I've yet to understand what this whole thing about taste in women/men has got to do with anything.

Your also basing your opinion on pre stabbed Jon. Post stabbed Jon is a complete unknown at the moment.

[six]

Because I don't think ASOIAF will suddenly morph into Pride and Prejudice in act 3.

Except grrm did something similar with Jaime and Brienne, and he made it far from cheesy or predictable...

Your also basing your opinion on pre stabbed Jon. Post stabbed Jon is a complete unknown at the moment.

... and this.

[Mithras]

The secret pact that Prince Doran had made all those years called for Arianne to be wed to Prince Viserys, not Quentyn to Daenerys. It had all come undone on the Dothraki sea, when he was murdered. Crowned with a pot of molten gold. "He was killed by a Dothraki khal," said Arianne. "The dragon queen’s own husband."

"So I’ve heard. What of it?"

"Just… why did Daenerys let it happen? Viserys was her brother. All that remained of her own blood."

"The Dothraki are a savage folk. Who can know why they kill? Perhaps Viserys wiped his arse with the wrong hand."

Perhaps, thought Arianne, or perhaps Daenerys realized that once her brother was crowned and wed to me, she would be doomed to spend the rest of her life sleeping in a tent and smelling like a horse. "She is the Mad King’s daughter," the princess said. "How do we do know — "

"We cannot know," Ser Daemon said. "We can only hope."

It is not just Axell and Selyse. I think half of the Westeros will believe in the propoganda of Team fAegon which even Arianne is able to figure out as hinted above. Varys might pull out different accusations as well. And I believe after the taking of Volantis, the Red Religion will have a prominent position in Dany's decision making. We all know how it worked out for Stannis.

[MoIaF]

The secret pact that Prince Doran had made all those years called for Arianne to be wed to Prince Viserys, not Quentyn to Daenerys. It had all come undone on the Dothraki sea, when he was murdered. Crowned with a pot of molten gold. "He was killed by a Dothraki khal," said Arianne. "The dragon queens own husband."

"So Ive heard. What of it?"

"Just why did Daenerys let it happen? Viserys was her brother. All that remained of her own blood."

"The Dothraki are a savage folk. Who can know why they kill? Perhaps Viserys wiped his arse with the wrong hand."

Perhaps, thought Arianne, or perhaps Daenerys realized that once her brother was crowned and wed to me, she would be doomed to spend the rest of her life sleeping in a tent and smelling like a horse. "She is the Mad Kings daughter," the princess said. "How do we do know "

"We cannot know," Ser Daemon said. "We can only hope."

It is not just Axell and Selyse. I think half of the Westeros will believe in the propoganda of Team fAegon which even Arianne is able to figure out as hinted above. Varys might pull out different accusations as well. And I believe after the taking of Volantis, the Red Religion will have a prominent position in Dany's decision making. We all know how it worked out for Stannis.

I don't know why or how Jon would believe what's coming from the South. He'll listen to it if the news makes it's way North but from that to judging someone he's never even met it's a big leap based on his character.

As for the religion, Dany has always been agnostic and at the same time accepts all gods. She already rejected the Red Faith in Meereen even though she had been around it as far back as when she lived with Illyrio in AGOT.

ETA: Quaithe warned Dany about Moqorro and we know that by the end of ADWD Dany start taking Quiathe's advice ("to go forward, I must go back"). It seems far more likely she'd embrace the Horse Lord after her time in Vaes Dothrak and I still think she wouldn't truly be religious about it.

[Han Snow]

I think there's very little doubt that Dany's immediate reaction to Tyrion would be "off with his head" level hate. His father orchestrated the murder of her nephews and the rape & murder of her sister in law, his sister married the usurper king, and his brother KILLED her father! Tyrion himself was a former acting hand of the usurper King's son until they forced him out.

Anyone who thinks Dany will immediately - or indeed ever - fully embrace Tyrion as a trusted adviser is engaging in wishful thinking, imo.

As to Jon, I agree with Tze on this. I have absolutely no reason to believe that Jon would admire Dany. Everything I know about her, everything I know about him and his taste in women (his taste in character not physicality), tells me she will be chalk to his cheese. Comparing Dany to Ygritte and Val tells me that. The instant she walks in spouting about being the Mother of Dragons and throwing her weight around, she will antagonize him. To say nothing of course of her own reaction to Jon being a Stark.

You mean Jon being a Targaryen?

Though I agree that the first meeting between the two will certainly not be a love at first sight, quite the opposite. But where and how their relationship ends up, whatever kind it might be is up to GRRM and we can only guess. And my guess is that there is a possibility that after the initial antagonistic feelings between them they'll end up attracted to each other, involved romantically and then one or both will die. Bittersweet ending.

[The Mother of The Others]

I think there's very little doubt that Dany's immediate reaction to Tyrion would be "off with his head" level hate.

I have absolutely no reason to believe that Jon would admire Dany, chalk to his cheese. instant she walks in spouting about being the Mother of Dragons and throwing her weight around, she will antagonize him. To say nothing of course of her own reaction to Jon being a Stark.

That's why it's important Tyrion and Daenerys don't meet on a lazy Tuesday afternoon when their normal prejudices are what decides things. Her first impression of him needs to be, "Hey, who coaxed the dragons safely out of the populated city into this nest of rubble by the river where they seem to be content to stay of their own free will, with the wagons of Yunkaii corpse-feed that are being delivered to them by....not by my men.... hey, who's that little guy calling out orders?"

Jon and Danaerys wouldn't meet by grossing each other out with their detestable background stories, though, would they? He wouldn't see her "I'm a conquerer" baggage first, he'd see her in the sky first as she circled round his position to create a sorely needed defensive perimeter around his men so they could collapse and tend to their wounds. She'd see the one guy who stood out from all the other lords because he was fighting to preserve what was left of her kingdom instead of bleeding it with more internal strife. He's disowned by the Starks and is a self-made man with his own name, soon to share hers if the truth comes out; she's limitless warmth in the coldest winter evar.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Because I don't think ASOIAF will suddenly morph into Pride and Prejudice in act 3.

I fail to see any similarities between Jon Snow and Mr. Darcy, or between Daenerys and Elizabeth.

And if you mean to disparage P&P in any way (as some people have been known to do), be prepared for the consequences. :box:

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

I fail to see any similarities between Jon Snow and Mr. Darcy, or between Daenerys and Elizabeth.

And if you mean to disparage P&P in any way (as some people have been known to do), be prepared for the consequences. :box:

Just flip the genders of Darcy & Lizzy. Dany is Darcy, Jon is Lizzy.

[Sun]

I fail to see any similarities between Jon Snow and Mr. Darcy, or between Daenerys and Elizabeth.

And if you mean to disparage P&P in any way (as some people have been known to do), be prepared for the consequences. :box:

lol No!! I'm a huge Jane Austen lover, though Persuasion is my favourite, not P&P. :) I just don't think this series is turning into P&P in the final act is a very good idea, or likely to happen.

[LordStoneheart]

Except grrm did something similar with Jaime and Brienne, and he made it far from cheesy or predictable...

:agree: :bowdown: :cheers: :bowdown: :agree:

Their story boarders on a typical romcom. I always see it asserted that Jon and Dany is cheesy, but I've never seen that claim elaborated on or defended well.

[Faint]

I think there is a legitimate argument to be made that the author is incapable of writing an authentic relationship between the pair, but just from the tone of some of the comments here, I get the impression that most arguments derive from a dislike of the very idea of it.

[LordStoneheart]

I think there is a legitimate argument to be made that the author is incapable of writing an authentic relationship between the pair, but just from the tone of some of the comments here, I get the impression that most arguments derive from a dislike of the very idea of it.

Bingo

[Targaryen Warg]

But those are short stories which are meant to be brief and to the point. This is a seven novel long epic fantasy series. You can't have the central main romance arc happen in the final novel over a thirty page snippet as soon as the characters meet. It would just look tacked on and feel forced as the series will already be concluding.

Can you imagine if you were watching a film for three hours and then in the last 15 minutes two of our characters finally meet, fall in love and marry. Thats essentially what it is. A gimmick. Something which hasn't been built up and won't be properly explored. It will purely be relying on fan-service feel good factor rather than making a full fledged arc of it. To me that just feels very cheap to what is going to be the central romance of the series.

That makes sense, maybe they won't like each other at first but perhaps in the epilogue when they've had time it'll hint at marriage or a romance. History repeats itself and I'd like to see a Targaryen-Stark romance that didn't end badly and we'll come full circle. The same two houses that plunged the seven kingdoms into war will actually end up saving it. (Ahem, Lyanna and Rhaegar)

But to contradict myself, they're not particularly suited to each other.

[six]

That makes sense, maybe they won't like each other at first but perhaps in the epilogue when they've had time it'll hint at marriage or a romance. History repeats itself and I'd like to see a Targaryen-Stark romance that didn't end badly and we'll come full circle. The same two houses that plunged the seven kingdoms into war will actually end up saving it. (Ahem, Lyanna and Rhaegar)

But to contradict myself, they're not particularly suited to each other.

How do we know they aren't since they haven't interacted yet? I don't understand why some people have written off a possible relationship that hasn't appeared on the page yet. Maybe when you read it, it works wonderfully, how do we know?

Also grrm loves mismatched couples/pairs, and some of his most interesting relationships come exactly from characters being paired off with other characters who at first glance would seem very unsuited to each other.

[Mithras]

How do we know they aren't since they haven't interacted yet? I don't understand why some people have written off a possible relationship that hasn't appeared on the page yet. Maybe when you read it, it works wonderfully, how do we know?

Because that is the only thing what we can do. We know Jon and we know Dany. Given the current data, it does not look bright for them IMO.

Also grrm loves mismatched couples/pairs, and some of his most interesting relationships come exactly from characters being paired off with other characters who at first glance would seem very unsuited to each other.

The Jaime-Brienne thing is still on the making. And it taking too long because they both need to change and come too far to meet in the common ground.

[six]

Because that is the only thing what we can do. We know Jon and we know Dany. Given the current data, it does not look bright for them IMO.

From my perspective that makes it more interesting. I don't want to read dull and perfect, princess meeting her knight in shining armour. I want friction, and I like characters interactions to be messy, with lots of conflict and growth and changes within a relationship.

The Jaime-Brienne thing is still on the making. And it taking too long because they both need to change and come too far to meet in the common ground.

I didn't just mean Jaime and Brienne and I wasn't just talking about romantic interactions, just that in general grrm likes to pair characters who are initially very mismatched... Until they aren't. There are quite a few examples.

[KINGpanther]

Because that is the only thing what we can do. We know Jon and we know Dany. Given the current data, it does not look bright for them IMO.

I dunno, Dany seems to be in a good spot with a semi tamed dragon at her side. I expect Dany to return to Meeren with a horde of Dothraki Screamers and what Illyrio said to Tyrion about sellswords comes to mind "sellswords won't stand against Dothraki Screamers".